Harper Links Liberal to Air India

[Catchme]

Jdobbin, you are correct Harper was inferring that the MP might be linked to terrorism, but by extension he was also erroneously inferring that the Liberals were as well, or indeed any opposition party member who supported the removal of the temporary measures were as well.

Do you really not trust the Liberals that much? I didn't draw that conclusion and I wouldn't trust them with a penny.

Do not know what you are on about, never said a thing about the Liberals and not trusting them, oh the shifting sands of it all.

Goodale explains what Harper has not and what he is trying to imply on Mike Duffy:

"It was very clear the prime minister was doing two things. He was casting some very serious aspersions about Mr. Bains ... and secondly, the implication that somehow the decision-making process within the Liberal Party is shaped by some family connection on this very serious issue on what is the right security law for Canada."

"The Conservatives treat this not as a substantive issue of important public policy, but some cheap gimmick to get votes."

Mike Duffy

And apparently Harper "smuggled" the clipping in. That he did so, on a unrelated issue to the discussion on the sunset clauses, in a QP about the judicial committee plainly denotes he did not want to viewing public hear the debacle with his interference with the judiciary.

[jdobbin]

Offhand, I'd say that this has been a very productive day for the Rt. Hon. Stephen Harper PC, MP.

First, he managed to twist the knife in a glaring wound on the Liberal caucus. The entire Liberal front bench voted in favour of these two security measures and now Dion can only get support by threatening not to sign nomination papers. Talk about divide and rule.

Second, for most voters who don't pay attention to details, they saw the Liberal caucus screaming like a horde of drunken hyenas. Hardly a government in waiting.

Trying to link a Liberal MP to terrorism is hardly prime ministerial.

Of course, it isn't uncommon for the right wing to use smear tactics. Think I can recall you making a comment about Trudeau and his wife.

[stignasty]

Exactly. Harper didn't say anything. Then afterwards the libs told Mike Duffy what he was going to say. And people are mad at Harper.

I would personally vote to keep the measures. How would the people bashing Harper over nothing vote if they were an MP?

He said enough.

Then Harper said he was "not surprised, given what I'm reading in the Vancouver Sun today when I read this is how the Liberal party makes decisions."

"The Vancouver Sun has learned that the father-in-law of the member of Parliament for Mississauga-Brampton South …" http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/02/21/harper-house.html

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/st...afe890d&k=12857

The Vancouver Sun article.

What do you think he was going to say, given that he referred to the article?

[gc1765]

I would have expected more dignity from a Prime Minister.

[Remiel]

I wonder if it is a conflict of interest to attempt to instruct an opposition MP to vote in your favour as to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest...

[August1991]

Trying to link a Liberal MP to terrorism is hardly prime ministerial.

Of course, it isn't uncommon for the right wing to use smear tactics. Think I can recall you making a comment about Trudeau and his wife.

WTF?

Trudeau's wife disappeared for a few days and then turned up in New York after flying there in private jet with Mick Jagger - a photo showed her commando style in a disco (this was the Seventies).

Returned to Ottawa and 24 Sussex, she was next seen in public with a bruised eye.

That was not prime ministerial (but as I say it was the Seventies and Trudeau got some votes out of it).

If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe the G & M:

1977:

March 4: Margaret Trudeau spends her sixth wedding anniversary at a Rolling Stones concert in Toronto. A few days later, she jets to New York, where she tells People magazine that Mr. Trudeau's body is “like that of a 25-year-old.” She also discusses their fondness for garter belts and the effect her nipples have on state visitors. Shortly after her return home, she appears to have a black eye.

As to Harper, where did he make any accusation about anything? As I noted, he first drew reference to Dion's difference with his Liberal caucus and second, he made the Liberal caucus look chaotically loud and disorganized.

IME, it is the opposition that is supposed to make the government look disorganized and divided, not the reverse.

Score for the day? Harper: 2 Dion: 0 Dems de breaks.

[jdobbin]

WTF?

Trudeau's wife disappeared for a few days and then turned up in New York after flying there in private jet with Mick Jagger - a photo showed her commando style in a disco (this was the Seventies).

Returned to Ottawa and 24 Sussex, she was next seen in public with a bruised eye.

As to Harper, where did he make any accusation about anything? As I noted, he first drew reference to Dion's difference with his Liberal caucus and second, he made the Liberal caucus look chaotically loud and disorganized.

IME, it is the opposition that is supposed to make the government look disorganized and divided, not the reverse.

Score for the day? Harper: 2 Dion: 0 Dems de breaks.

I don't give a rat's ass what the Globe said. You think that backs your smear or theirs? It's pathetic and so you are you every time you mention it. And once again, you make the claim without any evidence that he gained votes because of it.

I think you should be banned permanently from this forum for trolling.

I've reported the post. I have no idea if it will lead to you being turfed but it should.

[gc1765]

As to Harper, where did he make any accusation about anything?

Then what was the purpose of reading the article? Just for fun? It was clearly a drive-by smear after an unrelated question. What does his father in law have to do with judicial appointments? He accused the Liberals of opposing his policies because of one Liberal MP's father-in-law....WTF?

Score for the day? Harper: 2 Dion: 0 Dems de breaks.

This incident makes Harper look disgraceful...I'd say Harper: -1.

[blueblood]

Wow, I don't think I'd accuse August of trolling. That was an interesting point of view, not ban worthy, i've seen worse trolling on here. Would you be that fiesty if it was the tories in the liberal's shoes? People are allowed to say what they want and sometimes it can be right offensive. Harper said something right offensive, so what.

[jdobbin]

Wow, I don't think I'd accuse August of trolling. That was an interesting point of view, not ban worthy, i've seen worse trolling on here. Would you be that fiesty if it was the tories in the liberal's shoes? People are allowed to say what they want and sometimes it can be right offensive. Harper said something right offensive, so what.

I'd be upset if the Liberals accused someone of wifebeating with no evidence to support it. And I don't mean a photograph. The Globe used innuendos and smear in the same way August has. He now uses the Globe article to state it is a historic fact. To top it off he keeps repeating the dubious claim that it earned Trudeau votes.

Yellow journalism. Yellow poster.

[August1991]

I think you should be banned permanently from this forum for trolling.

I've reported the post. I have no idea if it will lead to you being turfed but it should.

La nuit porte conseil.

[jdobbin]

La nuit porte conseil.

It surprises me that you post what you do when you know in your heart that it smack of innuendo.

[na85]

I think everyone needs to calm down a little.

As to Harper, where did he make any accusation about anything? As I noted, he first drew reference to Dion's difference with his Liberal caucus and second, he made the Liberal caucus look chaotically loud and disorganized.

The accusation was implied when Harper said "... this is how the Liberal party makes decisions..." (or something to that effect), which to me clearly insinuates that family ties influence the Liberals' decision-making. I'd wager he's trying to get some more play out of the "Martin's Liberals are crooked" stigma.

-----

I think you should be banned permanently from this forum for trolling.

I've reported the post. I have no idea if it will lead to you being turfed but it should.

Again, rational debate is what we all seek. Personally, I always find August's opinions to be refreshingly insightful, even if I don't necessarily agree with them. Let's stick to the topic.

[geoffrey]

Then what was the purpose of reading the article? Just for fun? It was clearly a drive-by smear after an unrelated question. What does his father in law have to do with judicial appointments? He accused the Liberals of opposing his policies because of one Liberal MP's father-in-law....WTF?

Harper brought up the conflict of interest that the MP has... his father-in-law will avoid questioning on the Air India matter if the terrorism provisions aren't renewed.

The MP in question is in a major conflict of interest, and it's right that all Canadians realise that one of the Liberal votes against these measures will be for personal reasons, to cover up details from a criminal investigation of a terrorist act that killed hundreds of people.

It's a valid point. We deserve to know of these huge conflicts. MP's shouldn't be in a position to protect relatives through legislation when we're dealing with a massive act of terrorism.

[gc1765]

Harper brought up the conflict of interest that the MP has... his father-in-law will avoid questioning on the Air India matter if the terrorism provisions aren't renewed.

I don't see what that has to do with the Conservatives stacking the judicial committees.

The MP in question is in a major conflict of interest, and it's right that all Canadians realise that one of the Liberal votes against these measures will be for personal reasons, to cover up details from a criminal investigation of a terrorist act that killed hundreds of people.

It's a valid point. We deserve to know of these huge conflicts. MP's shouldn't be in a position to protect relatives through legislation when we're dealing with a massive act of terrorism.

Do you really think the Liberals are not supporting the legislation just because ONE of their MPs father in law? If it's such an issue, he should abstain from the vote....but that doesn't change the fact that this was a drive-by smear by Harper.

[Catchme]

Again, Baines father in law spoke frankly and openly, 21 years ago to the RCMP, during their investigation.

He was NOT compelled to do so back then, this was 17 long years before any anti-terrorism measure was put in place, there is NO reason to believe the RCMP would need to compell him to later.

It was a slithering, slimey drive by shooting by Harper. Where he tried to play up on a erroneous notion that the Liberals are tied to terrorism and are trying to cover it up.

This type of thing may play well with the whacked out crowd that believes "Liberals" are satan's spawn trying to take over the world, in some type of global conspiracy, but it is not playing well, in real Canada.

And this is saying nothing about his inability to conduct himself like a Prime Minister of a country.

[Alexandra]

I think you should be banned permanently from this forum for trolling.

I've reported the post. I have no idea if it will lead to you being turfed but it should.

YOU reported August for --- trolling?

Why? Because he told the truth about Margaret Trudeau and the fact that Pierre used to slap the snot out of her periodically? And, that is the truth.

Obviously you know nothing about 'Maggie' Sinclair Trudeau or about the relationship between she and Trudeau.

Maybe it is you who should be "banned permanently from this forum" ..... for insulting August and for your ignorance of the facts about Maggie and her 'old man' Trudeau.

[geoffrey]

I don't see what that has to do with the Conservatives stacking the judicial committees.

I don't either, that was my point....

Do you really think the Liberals are not supporting the legislation just because ONE of their MPs father in law? If it's such an issue, he should abstain from the vote....but that doesn't change the fact that this was a drive-by smear by Harper.

No, but I do believe that this MP will not support the legislation in order to get his father law out of being questioned. You never want to piss of the in laws, especially not one that is being questioned about a terrorist attack.

[adam]

This obvious sidestep and smear seems to be the standard for a Tory response. But this time Harper over stepped his bounds.

I have watched many Q&A periods since the Tories took power, and not once have I seen them answer a question. They have side stepped every question pointing back at the Liberals from a decade ago blaming them for Canada’s problems. Now Harper makes unjustified accusations that a single Liberal MP’s father-in-law has terrorist ties, and therefore influences the whole party’s political stance.

These accusations themselves are wrong on so many levels; saying that a father-in-laws action’s corrupt is like saying the son-in-law of a murderer is guilty as well.

The stance that the Liberals have taken on the anti-terrorism laws is for civil liberties, the same civil liberties Harpers accusations are ignoring. I have met a vandal, I have met a thief, but that doesn’t make me one. When Harper saw a MP with a turban he got scared he is a terrorist spy and found ambiguous evidence to taint the liberal party and force the accused MP to abstain from voting on the proposed legislation. If Baines must abstain from voting on laws against civil liberties, shouldn’t everyone with civil liberties abstain?

Harper himself has produced legislation that has conflict of interest as well. So have all members of parliament. Isn’t that the point? Legislation is put forth to promote the interests of Canadians, MP’s being Canadian. And as a Canadian I am glad the Liberals are fighting for civil liberties of my self and the new citizens of this country.

I am ashamed of Harpers actions. I am ashamed of Canadians that allowed some one with such malicious intent to reach power in a country, I like to think, tries to be fare to all of its citizens. I hope the mistake of Canadians to be fooled by the Tory smoke screen and finger pointing is only temporary.

Finger pointing that is already taking place, with out an election on the horizon. Ads that should not be allowed even during an election campaign. A political parties campaign should promote their goals and viewpoints, not tearing apart of the opposition.

Every step of this Prime Minister since he took office has been to the side. This racist blunder of our “Prime Minister” was to side step a question about an important issue. I want to see the Tories finally answer a one.

[Charles Anthony]

What I find interesting is that all of the Liberals were very quick to eliminate the prime minister's ability to talk. They all seemed to know the connection between Bains' in-laws and the RCMP.

I have a recommendation for the next advertizing campaign:

Liberals: your government in waiting??? (WMV file -- high video speed)

Liberals: your government in waiting??? (WMV file -- low video speed)

[you have do not want to wait, go to the last 2 minutes of the clip to see the government in waiting]

I would probably create a montage with Stephane Dion saying how easy it is to set priorities or something like that...

[Catchme]

I don't see what that has to do with the Conservatives stacking the judicial committees.

I don't either, that was my point....

Do you really think the Liberals are not supporting the legislation just because ONE of their MPs father in law? If it's such an issue, he should abstain from the vote....but that doesn't change the fact that this was a drive-by smear by Harper.

No, but I do believe that this MP will not support the legislation in order to get his father law out of being questioned. You never want to piss of the in laws, especially not one that is being questioned about a terrorist attack.

geoffery, respectfully you are slandering both the MP Nav Baines and his father in law.

Baines' father in law, has never been charged wiith having terrorist associations, his father in law knew 1 or 2 who were charged, and 21 years ago, he was questoned about what he knew about the terrorists who were charged. 21 years ago the father in law fully disclosed what he knew, to the RCMP, without any laws forcing him to do so. He would testify today without any laws forcing him to do so.

Baines was 9 years old when this all happened, to say he would not vote for keeping a temporary measure to protect his father in law, from something, that his father in law does not need protecting from, is ludicrous, and slanderous, at the very least.

Harper owes Baines an apology, the Members of Parliament an apology and one to ALL Canadians. This is equivalent, or worse actually, than accusing Martin of being a pedeophile because he is slandering, all the MP's, and indeed disrespecting ALL Canadians, with the complicit support of the Vanacouver Sun and its owners.

Letters of outrage and demanding an apology, need to be sent to the SUN and to Harper by all rational and concerned Canadians..

[Argus]

The Liberals climbed into the gutter nearly twenty years ago, and since then have been steadily and I might say gleefully tunneling down year after year. They are a party which heaps mud and muck and sleaze onto all opponents every election, and not one of you ever had a problem with any of that. Your self righteous whining now is nothing more than amusing, if typical hypocrisy.

So you admit Conservatives are slimey?

I said no such thing. What I said was that politics in this country have been dragged into the sewer by successive Liberal strategy and campaign teams, and so you Liberals have no right to snivel about the Conservatives throwing muck at you. We're here in the sewers because you brought us here. Nor have you shown the slightest interest in climbing out. In fact, if anything, you're still furiously trying to tunnel lower every year.

What you fail to grasp is that there isn't an election on now.

Don't be childish.

and his refusal to back off on Goodale only means the Liberals will uncover Harper lower in the tunnel.

Goodale is, without a doubt, the most self-righteous politician to sit in parliament in the last thirty years. Screw him and his endless whining.

[Argus]

:angry:

Sleazy Stevey, at it again.

And that from an unbiased "centrist" too!!

[Argus]

Offhand, I'd say that this has been a very productive day for the Rt. Hon. Stephen Harper PC, MP.

First, he managed to twist the knife in a glaring wound on the Liberal caucus. The entire Liberal front bench voted in favour of these two security measures and now Dion can only get support by threatening not to sign nomination papers. Talk about divide and rule.

Second, for most voters who don't pay attention to details, they saw the Liberal caucus screaming like a horde of drunken hyenas. Hardly a government in waiting.

Trying to link a Liberal MP to terrorism is hardly prime ministerial.

Of course, it isn't uncommon for the right wing to use smear tactics. Think I can recall you making a comment about Trudeau and his wife.

I seem to recall that after Paul Martin was the keynote speaker at a fund raiser for the Tamil Tigers, and he was questioned on it, he called his opponents racists. I'd call that a smear tactic.

[Argus]

I would have expected more dignity from a Prime Minister.

Unless the prime minister was named Martin or Chretien, of course. Then your expectations are abandoned in favour of unbridled and enthusiastic support for whatever they do.