Americans Staying Away in Droves

[ft.niagara]

In Feb 14 Buffalo News:

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20070214/1035087.asp

By DAVID ROBINSON

News Business Reporter

2/14/2007

Ever spend a weekend in Toronto or buy furniture at IKEA and file to get the 6 percent "goods and services" tax back when you returned to the United States?

You may not be able to do that anymore. The Canadian government wants to revoke the visitor rebate policy. Merchants in the Niagara Region of Southern Ontario are lobbying against the change, fearing it would deliver a major blow to the region's tourism industry.

"Canceling the visitor rebate program will cost this city jobs and could force the closure of small businesses that rely on tourists," Niagara Falls, Ont., Mayor Ted Salci said after a news conference Tuesday. The Tourism Industry Association of Canada said ending the rebate program would result in the loss of more than 5,700 jobs and take a $204 million (U.S.) bite out of the Canadian economy.

The outcry started soon after the Canadian government announced in September that it would eliminate the Visitor Rebate Program as of April 1. The government said it would save an estimated $74 million in rebates and other costs associated with operating a program that relatively few tourists use.

The Canada Revenue Agency said less than 3 percent of all foreign visitors to Canada take advantage of the rebate program for the 6 percent tax applied to most goods and services sold in Canada.

But Canadian tourism officials said the tourism industry already is grappling with a 28 percent plunge in visits by Americans from 2000 to 2005.

Tourism officials attributed the drop largely to the scare involving severe acute respiratory syndrome, the strong Canadian dollar, tightened post-9/11 border security measures and confusion over proposed U.S. passport requirements.

"Americans are already staying away in droves," said Sarah Wood, Niagara Parks Commission public relations manager. "The federal government is kicking us when we're down."

In November, 263,718 same-day car trips were made to Canada across the four Niagara River bridges, down 9.9 percent from the same month last year, according to Statistics Canada.

Chuck Loewen, general manager of Peace Bridge Duty Free, said more than half of the visitors who receive instant refunds at duty-free shops or other third-party refund sites spend that money immediately on other goods and services from Canadian companies.

The Visitor Rebate Coalition, consisting of 14 Canadian industry and business associations, has urged transferring the costs and program administration to an industry-backed group.

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[geoffrey]

About time. Never quite understood why an American should pay less tax than me in Canada.

[ft.niagara]

About time. Never quite understood why an American should pay less tax than me in Canada.

That's the sprit.

[geoffrey]

That's the sprit.

Just because your on the border, doesn't mean your customers should pay less than those customers 100km North.

What is the rationale, besides a subsidy, to charge foreigners less than Canadians on the same good.

[ft.niagara]

The story acknowledges that few of the Americans claim the rebate. The duty free stores probably benefit the most. The interesting part of the story is the sharp drop in American tourism to Canada over the past six years. It is probably greater than 28%, that was only through 2005. The sprit I refer to is good, they can go f*** themselves.

[BayLee]

About time. Never quite understood why an American should pay less tax than me in Canada.

You do know what GST stands for dont you.

You pay gst because you receive goods and services .

A tourist paying gst receives nothing back.

[margrace]

This is a good example of a stupid debate. The Americans are staying away plain and simply because when our dollare was below .70 it was a lot cheaper for them to come. As far as I am concerned it can go back there, I live in resort country and it would be a lot better for our economy

[White Doors]

About time. Never quite understood why an American should pay less tax than me in Canada.

You do know what GST stands for dont you.

You pay gst because you receive goods and services .

A tourist paying gst receives nothing back.

Wtf? that has to be one of THE dumbest things I have ever heard on this board (and that is saying alot.)

You ever stop to THINK?

GSt is the good and services tax.

You pay it on GOODS AND SERVICES - hence the name.

If the tourist buys 'goods' or services they have to pay it. They are cancelling the rebate back on it when they leave. Makes perfect sense. They should have to pay like all of us.

They use the highways in Canada don't they?

[Black Dog]

The Canada Revenue Agency said less than 3 percent of all foreign visitors to Canada take advantage of the rebate program for the 6 percent tax applied to most goods and services sold in Canada.

But Canadian tourism officials said the tourism industry already is grappling with a 28 percent plunge in visits by Americans from 2000 to 2005.

Wait: so only a tiny percentage bother to take advantage of this? Presumably, only a tiny percentage of those people will stop shopping in Canada as a result (as long as the Canadian dollar is lower than the U.S. , it's cheaper to shop here, no?). So even if we're generous and assume 3/4 of the people now filing rebates will stop altogether, that's still a relatively minute number. So I doubt ending this silly rebate will be the straw that breaks any camel backs.

Now, the real issue is how to get tourism levels back up. I say the answer is simple: legalize it!

[Catchme]

Finally, I actually agree with something the Harper government is doing, whew, never thought it would happen.

Most visitors coming to Canada do not even know about the GST rebate. It is not a factor in their planned spending. They will come regardless of the rebate being there or not.

Personally, I have always disagreed with the rebate, it is basically subsidizing Duty Free Stores and nothing more and costing taxpayers and other businesses to do so. The businesses that charged GST still pay it to the government, and absorb all the associated costs with doing so, and do not get paid for collecting government taxes for them. It is a net loss for the businesses.

Then the Duty Free Stores giving the rebate, gain from the giving the rebate, not the primary business collecting it. The logical thing , if out of country visitors were to be exempted from GST, was NOT to charge it at the point of sale in the first place.

Beyond that, why should out of country visitors be exempted from GST? Personally, I know of no other country that rebates taxes paid back to out of country visitors, though I suppose there maybe.

The tourism industry is down 28% for a variety of reason, and taking away a 6% rebate is not going to affect a decrease further downwards.

[BayLee]

Finally, I actually agree with something the Harper government is doing, whew, never thought it would happen.

Most visitors coming to Canada do not even know about the GST rebate. It is not a factor in their planned spending. They will come regardless of the rebate being there or not.

So in otherwards if the tourists dont know they are having money stolen from them for which they will see no benefit it is OK?

Funny Canadians complain about paying the GST when at least we see something for it.

[M.Dancer]

About time. Never quite understood why an American should pay less tax than me in Canada.

They don't pay income tax here either.....and in either case, they are not here to receive the benefits of the taxations....

[Catchme]

Finally, I actually agree with something the Harper government is doing, whew, never thought it would happen.

Most visitors coming to Canada do not even know about the GST rebate. It is not a factor in their planned spending. They will come regardless of the rebate being there or not.

So in otherwards if the tourists dont know they are having money stolen from them for which they will see no benefit it is OK?

Funny Canadians complain about paying the GST when at least we see something for it.

They are not having their money stolen. If anyone is, it is the business that has to absorb the administation costs for GST collection and submission to the government.

We Canadians, pay GST for Goods and Services. Why should those from out of country be exempt from paying tax on the GOODS and SERVICE they receive, while we are not? They have received the Goods and the Services, no money is being stolen from them any more than it would be for us.

Personally, I would like the GST gone completely as I do believe it is theft of tax dollars, and taking further money from business for admin costs of collecting the federal tax for them.

[guyser]

The sprit I refer to is good, they can go f*** themselves.

I sincerely hope that is not the sentiment of people in this country, nor on this board. But not knowing about somethings certainly does not preclude one from spouting off.

Niagara , we need you, your bros and sis to keep coming to S Ont in droves. Just like the retailers of malls in Buffalo and the outlet malls in Niagara F need the canucks to keep coming. We will be HAPPY to give you the tax rebate upon submission of reciepts. It is a good thing.

This govt of ours, in this case, is being stupid and myopic. I cannot profess to know all the ins and outs of this but anyway.

VAT tax is what this is. Call it a GST , TVA,IVT, BTW.....are other names the WORLD over. If people travel they can claim all the above taxes back from the Govt of the place they were visiting. It has been that way for decades. Some may only now be realizing that it exists. Not that many take advantage of it frankly , but it is a great selling point when advertising .

It is a pittance of money that the govt will save. So why not leave it alone. It sells well , and if visitors dont utilize it , we keep the money, and that to me is a win win situation.

Maybe Harper is trying to punish S Ont for not being CPC. Who knows. It would not be the first time Pols have done this.

After all the busiest border crossings in Canada are in Southern Ontario , with the Windsor crossing being #1.

Anyhow, as for those that feel we should NOT give tourists a break, hmmmm maybe we get a break in other countries too?

How about...

Austria

Belgium

Bulgaria

Cypress

Czech Rep

Denmark

Estonia

Finland

France

Germany

Greece.....

...do I continue or does that give you the scope of this.

Harper, be smart, dont cancel this.

[guyser]

Personally, I know of no other country that rebates taxes paid back to out of country visitors, though I suppose there maybe.

Really?

[Catchme]

Really that many give rebates, but I would like to see the proof please, about what amount gets rebated for what?

[guyser]

Really that many give rebates, but I would like to see the proof please, about what amount gets rebated for what?

The amounts vary from country to country. Some of them are as high as 21% right on down to our 5% or whatever it is now.

Google ad vellorum tax or Value added tax there so many sites from many different countries. If that does not suffice I will have to look for my original source.

[White Doors]

Irrelevant. Does not mean we should as well. People don't come to Canada for a GST rebate.

[guyser]

Irrelevant. Does not mean we should as well. People don't come to Canada for a GST rebate.

You have a point to make as to why not?

I dont go to France for the rebate either. But some people might make the trip across the border to pick up a few things and "know" they can get a rebate. Whether they do or not is irrelevant.

We have had this on the books for decades IIRC , and it is needed to lure American tourist and their greenbacks.

I take it tourism is not a big deal in your town? Do you live anywhere near the border ?

Oh and you can get a rebate on US goods too.

[jdobbin]

Just because your on the border, doesn't mean your customers should pay less than those customers 100km North.

What is the rationale, besides a subsidy, to charge foreigners less than Canadians on the same good.

Countries do it because tourists from outside the country spend a lot more than citizens do. The rationale is that the rebate pays for itself and the tourist industry has shown actual numbers about how this is so. The government had no hard numbers about why they shut the program down.

[jdobbin]

Irrelevant. Does not mean we should as well. People don't come to Canada for a GST rebate.

I don't go to the U.S. for the rebate but I apply for it when I shop there.

[BayLee]

Amazing.On this forum we see right wingers making up any excuse to defend the Americans but yet on this thread they are saying we should cheat American tourists on the GST and right wingers going so far as to sat American tourists can go f#ck themselves

[ft.niagara]

Amazing.On this forum we see right wingers making up any excuse to defend the Americans but yet on this thread they are saying we should cheat American tourists on the GST and right wingers going so far as to sat American tourists can go f#ck themselves

Huh??? Ms. BayLee again seems to be out of the loop. Perhaps some left winger can explain the thread to her.

[Wilber]

When I was living in Alaska and shopping in Washington State, all I had to do was show my Alaska drivers license, another piece of ID with my Anchorage address, sign a piece of paper and I didn't have to pay state sales tax. As a Canadian shopping there I get no such consideration. Why should they when they come to BC.

[August1991]

When a Canadian company sells a good abroad (let's say a barrel of refined oil), it does not collect GST on the sale. Indeed, the company is entitled to a refund on all previous GST payments at each stage in the manufacture. Canada's exports leave the country GST free. This makes sense because Canadian goods enter the world market place at something close to a competitive world price.

By the same logic, we should sell all goods to foreigners exempt of GST - whether the foreigner happens to be in Canada as a tourist or is sitting behind a desk in New York trading in world oil futures.

Unfortunately, paying GST refunds to foreign tourists is an invitation to fraud and it's an administrative nightmare. (While Uncle Ahmed is visiting from the UK, you buy the widescreen TV and then Ahmed, once back in Basingstoke, to mail in the receipt for a refund.) It makes more sense to cancel the GST refund.

Incidentally, European countries offer refunds on VAT to foreigners but various restrictions apply.

[While I'm on the topic of the GST, I would really like to see it harmonized on PST and rolled into the selling price. This is the case in Europe.]

As to Duty Free Shops, they are largely a scam. The last time I crossed the land border between Quebec and New York, the prices on booze were little different from the SAQ. In airports, the rent is so high that prices are similar. In European airports, there is no duty free booze for internal flights.

I have never understood why people who fly on airplanes should be exempt from paying tax. If anything, I'd charge them more.