Maple Leaf Patches/Pins

[LonJowett]

Well said. And speaking of Japan, Canada didn't even enter the war in the Pacific until December of '41; or am I wrong about that?

There wasn't a war in the Pacific to enter into until then.

[Guest American Woman]

Well said. And speaking of Japan, Canada didn't even enter the war in the Pacific until December of '41; or am I wrong about that?

There wasn't a war in the Pacific to enter into until then.

The war in the Pacific started in 1937.

[Fortunata]

And speaking of Japan, Canada didn't even enter the war in the Pacific until December of '41; or am I wrong about that?

You are right about that; it was about the same time USA officially entered into WWII.

The war in the Pacific started in 1937.

Officially WWII didn't start until September of 1939. In 1937 a treaty was signed, Berlin-Rome-Tokyo Axis Powers between (of course) Germany, Italy and Japan. Japan and China were at war in 1937 (as early as 1931?).

[boomstick]

Hey Ricki Bobbi!!! You're a flippin MORON! If you love the States so goddam much, move down there you little puss. I think you've been watching too much of their television. The United States is a CHUMP, and always HAS been. The ONLY time American military efforts caused a MAJOR change in anything was WWII.... You know, when they cowered away from the axis, and FED LIKE VULTURES off the alies by SELLING them resources necessary to continue the war effort. They got big and fat while the rest of the world duked it out like REAL MEN. Then, when everyone was all but spent (good guys AND bad), those pussies finally decided to get involved (pearl harbor nothing! the American Government knew it was coming just as they knew the attack on the WTC was coming.... they prepared alright, but it wasn't CITIZENS that they evacuated, was it?). So, the only nation with any resourses left walked in and cleaned up with their big new bomb.... and you American scumbags STILL don't appreciate how lucky you were to be the first to build a working atom bomb. And without it, (by that, i mean if nobody in the world had the technology) the Japanese would have won the war. As it turns out, Russia won WWII. Since, the US has involved itself in how many wars, and in the end won NONE of them! I can't think of a single WAR they HAVE won. Thank you so much for freeing the world of Communism, even though the cold war was fought with propaganda alone (history repeats itself) and Russia collapsed from THE INSIDE! I mean CHRIST!!! The world was SECONDS away from nuclear devastation because Americans can hardly understand their own technology! Even the American Revolution was given to them because it was simply too expensive for England to build wooden ships and sail them over to spank those little criminal bastards. The scum that live south of our border gained all that they have by lieing, cheating, stealing, and murdering. PERIOD. A great (as in large) nation built on crime by criminals. very little comes to Canada from the USA Ricki Bobbi you fucking idiot! They're nothing more than a middle man. Their imports are almost identical to their exports in nearly EVERY natural resourse, and come on.... what is MADE IN AMERICA anymore? It doesn't surprise me that you fester in Calgary you fuckin redneck piece of shit. Go on and tell us how Alberta would be better off without the rest of Canada holding you back, then in the same breath, tell me how much you hate Quebec (where you've no doubt NEVER been) for wanting to seperate (which they've NEVER actually wanted to do). Maybe Canada's military might was squashed by NAFTA. Maybe once upon a time a bunch of FUCKING MORONS like yourself thought trading all our natural resourses for American military protection was a good idea. I hate to break it to you, stupid Albertican, but the US isn't making things better for anyone, not even Canada (not that you know much about Canada.... Alberta is owned by Uncle Sam, after all). I'll take any chance to bash those pieces of shit, Ricki Bobbi. I LOVE doing it. Why? Because I HATE them. And believe me, it has nothing to do with "self loathing" (sounds like yet another American concept). I'm quite proud of what I am and where I come from, even though I'm not too impressed with the direction my country has taken in the past few years. I know this: when this war is over the United States will be no more than a memory (which i fucking LOVE), but Canada will be on the same boat (which makes me hate the Americans even more). There's too much oil in your city, you redneck fucker. It's poisoned you. All that free wind blowing east of the foothills, and you pigs are still burning natural gas and coal to power your cities! GREED and WASTE! I hope your demented ignorance brings you much suffering. That goes for all you other disgusting American wannabe's and double to the real Americans. You reap what you sow, you fucking scumbags!

[Guest American Woman]

And speaking of Japan, Canada didn't even enter the war in the Pacific until December of '41; or am I wrong about that?

You are right about that; it was about the same time USA officially entered into WWII.

The war in the Pacific started in 1937.

Officially WWII didn't start until September of 1939. In 1937 a treaty was signed, Berlin-Rome-Tokyo Axis Powers between (of course) Germany, Italy and Japan. Japan and China were at war in 1937 (as early as 1931?).

So the war in the Pacific was going on at the time WWII officially started, yet Canada didn't enter into it until we did. Why is that? Was it because of Pearl Harbor?

[Black Dog]

The war in the Pacific started in 1937.

No. The Second Sino-Japanese War started in 1937. Allied operatons in the PTO did not begin until after Japan's offensive against U.S. and Commonwealth territories, which commenced Dec. 7, 1941. Incidentally, the U.S. did not declare war on the Nazis until Dec. 11, and only after Germany declared war on the U.S.

[JerrySeinfeld]

I thought this was a post about patches and pins.

[Liam]

I thought this was a post about patches and pins.

But don't you see? It still is about patches and pins, even though the debate has shifted to "my country was more brave than yours sixty five years ago even though I wasn't even born back then". The debate you're now watching is just the real world extension of the pins/patches topic: the notion that individual Americans are to blame for the decisions of Roosevelt or Reagan or Clinton or Bush, whereas non-Americans (it just happens to be Canadians in this forum) are blameless global citizens who are happy in their unity against the US and want to be disassociated from the poison America(ns) represent(s).

[Remiel]

If individual Americans do not care enough to pressure Congress to impeach Bush for crimes of fraud that *we all know are true*, they how can we *not* hold them, to some degree, responsible?

[JerrySeinfeld]

If individual Americans do not care enough to pressure Congress to impeach Bush for crimes of fraud that *we all know are true*, they how can we *not* hold them, to some degree, responsible?

I think I speak for the entire forum when I say:

"huh?"

[jester]

If individual Americans do not care enough to pressure Congress to impeach Bush for crimes of fraud that *we all know are true*, they how can we *not* hold them, to some degree, responsible?

I think I speak for the entire forum when I say:

"huh?"

A response I believe to this from the post above it....

the notion that individual Americans are to blame for the decisions of Roosevelt or Reagan or Clinton or Bush,

[Wilber]

Besides, Canada is a very different country today than then. I bet that no longer would Canada be involved two years before the US, if ever. The one question comes to mind is WHY. Why has Canada changed from yesterday's firm support of the Commonwealth, to today's dithering and self justification.

Good point, I've wondered the same thing.

So the war in the Pacific was going on at the time WWII officially started, yet Canada didn't enter into it until we did. Why is that? Was it because of Pearl Harbor?

Interesting question and the answer is probably, partly. A Canadian regiment from Winnipeg did form part of the garrison of Hong Kong which fell to the Japanese on Christmas Day 1941.

[White Doors]

Are we?

We may look and sound alike but our attitudes are poles apart.

Are you afraid to travel to Canada?

I and many people I know are afraid to travel to the US. In the early 90's I'd go at least twice a month but you will not ever get me to set foot there again. Not now. Anyone can be detained -- it's like Russia used to be. Scary shit IMO. Of course, not scary for you as an American citizen your rights are protected. Foreigners on your soil have no rights whatsoever.

We are planning a holiday in Mexico and I will only go if there is a direct flight and we don't have to touch down in the states.

Sorry but I am not the only one in the world who feels this fear. It's more real than your folks' fear of arabs.

My gawd your an idiot.

Not quite as bid an idiot as boomstick up there, but an idiot all the same.

[Guest American Woman]

If individual Americans do not care enough to pressure Congress to impeach Bush for crimes of fraud that *we all know are true*, they how can we *not* hold them, to some degree, responsible?

Evidently you have no idea how much effort some individual Americans HAVE been putting into trying pressure congress to get Bush impeached. So how can you blame all Americans, when so many didn't even vote for Bush? So how do you know, when you see an American, if they should be held responsible or not? Why are all Americans so often automatically held responsible?

[Guest American Woman]

So the war in the Pacific was going on at the time WWII officially started, yet Canada didn't enter into it until we did. Why is that? Was it because of Pearl Harbor?

Interesting question and the answer is probably, partly. A Canadian regiment from Winnipeg did form part of the garrison of Hong Kong which fell to the Japanese on Christmas Day 1941.

So did Canada join after that happened then?-- It wasn't right after Pearl Harbor, when we declared war?

[Drea]

My gawd your an idiot.

Not quite as bid an idiot as boomstick up there, but an idiot all the same.

Reported.

[White Doors]

My gawd your an idiot.

Not quite as bid an idiot as boomstick up there, but an idiot all the same.

Reported.

ohhh.... doesn't change the fact that you are one of the biggest idiots on this board and, believe me, that is saying something. now put the pipe down and go read a book you uneducated hippie.

[Drea]

reported. And reported the nasty PM as well.

Chill out White Doors.

[White Doors]

Get a clue. Polynewbie has more of a clue than you.

[Liam]

If individual Americans do not care enough to pressure Congress to impeach Bush for crimes of fraud that *we all know are true*, they how can we *not* hold them, to some degree, responsible?

The US a representational democracy, as are a number of nations around the world. By your logic, shouldn't we, then, hold to some degree responsible (among others and for other things):

- the average French citizen who did very little to force his government's hand at settling the strife in Cote d'Ivoire, or maybe even for allowing genocide in places like Kosovo;

- the average Brit for not having done more to stop its government during the brutal Northern Ireland crisis; for war crimes committed in Basra (under British watch) in the current war; for the 17th and 18th century slave trade; the condition of India; apartheid in South Africa; the treatment of aborigines in Australia; the firebombing of cities during WW2; cripes, even for the bloody Elgin Marbles (and the wholesale raping and pillaging of poorer nations);

- Canadians for all the forced religious conversions, broken families and mistreatments of native Candians? (I refuse to use "First Nations" because it reduces a people to a faceless institution or makes them sound like a savings and loan.)

I'll second AW's point that you have no idea the degree to which plenty of individual Americans have acted to stop Bush programs, elect Democrats, push for impeachment. Perhaps if some of the people who are horrified at the thought of having a layover at O'Hare while on your way to Mexico actually got to know individual Americans, you'd see that many of us voted against him, most of us disagree with him and almost all of us are decent people who don't deserve the overwhelmingly negative stereotypes.

It would simply be unfair for you to blame a Brit for his government's acts or to react to all Brits like you would a venereal disease simply because (by your estimation), individual Brits aren't doing enough to force Tony Blair out of Parliament. Nor, do I suspect, would you ever. Funny, though, that the same courtesy isn't extended to Americans by some of you.

[Wilber]

So the war in the Pacific was going on at the time WWII officially started, yet Canada didn't enter into it until we did. Why is that? Was it because of Pearl Harbor?

Interesting question and the answer is probably, partly. A Canadian regiment from Winnipeg did form part of the garrison of Hong Kong which fell to the Japanese on Christmas Day 1941.

So did Canada join after that happened then?-- It wasn't right after Pearl Harbor, when we declared war?

Yes, on Dec 8th the Canadian government declared that Canada was at war with Japan as of the 7th.

[Remiel]

Liam, you have something of a point, in principle, though the specifics of each example between us are still widely different.

However, I don't recall if I've heard of massive demonstrations in favour of impeachment. Maybe they're are but not being adequately reported up here. When people really believe in something, they tend to protest. When I see the people on the streets, I will believe their sincerity, likely not before. I don't mean that vindictively, just the way it is.

[Guest American Woman]

Liam, you have something of a point, in principle, though the specifics of each example between us are still widely different.

However, I don't recall if I've heard of massive demonstrations in favour of impeachment. Maybe they're are but not being adequately reported up here. When people really believe in something, they tend to protest. When I see the people on the streets, I will believe their sincerity, likely not before. I don't mean that vindictively, just the way it is.

Liam has more than "something of a point." He made excellent points.

Americans HAVE been protesting for Bush to be impeached, at every anti-war demonstration, for example. They protested him during the election when he made appearances. Are you familiar with the "free speech zone?" It basically puts protestors "out of sight." Google up "impeach Bush" and you will come up with a number of organizations and citizen groups that are attempting to have him impeached. Countless Americans have signed petitions to have him impeached, myself included. Check out Movement to Impeach Bush on Wikipedia, and you'll get a good overview of all that's being done. You'll also see that "The major media have largely ignored these opinion polls and protests."

Blair was re-elected, as was Howard. Where is the criticism for Brits and Aussies? Shouldn't they be held to the same judgement as Americans? And what about Harper. He supports Bush. What have you done to protest that?

I'm curious. Have you been on the streets protesting the war?

... on Dec 8th the Canadian government declared that Canada was at war with Japan as of the 7th.

Thank you for that information, Wilber. I appreciate it.

[Remiel]

Back in 2003, then Prime Minister Jean Chretien made the decision not to go to war in Iraq, which was, especially in retrospect, the correct decision. If we were to start protesting to impeach Bush, it would likely have the opposite effect, since we're outsiders, and it would become even less likely.

Besides, under the same note, I'm not saying Americans are responsible for protesting against Harper or Blair. They're responsible for protesting against their own " leader " .

And I don't know what the rest of the worlds excuse is, but Canada is next door to the US, not Australia or Britain. You can see tons of arguments on these boards (from both haters and lovers of the US) as to why we naturally are more aware of what happens south of the border rather than east and west of the ocean. The Brits and Aussies made the mistake of believing Bushs lies, and there is a degree of responsibility there, but theirs is not the power to get rid of Bush, yours is. The lies about the war originated with Bush and his band of villains.

[Liam]

Back in 2003, then Prime Minister Jean Chretien made the decision not to go to war in Iraq, which was, especially in retrospect, the correct decision. If we were to start protesting to impeach Bush, it would likely have the opposite effect, since we're outsiders, and it would become even less likely.

Besides, under the same note, I'm not saying Americans are responsible for protesting against Harper or Blair. They're responsible for protesting against their own " leader " .

And I don't know what the rest of the worlds excuse is, but Canada is next door to the US, not Australia or Britain. You can see tons of arguments on these boards (from both haters and lovers of the US) as to why we naturally are more aware of what happens south of the border rather than east and west of the ocean. The Brits and Aussies made the mistake of believing Bushs lies, and there is a degree of responsibility there, but theirs is not the power to get rid of Bush, yours is. The lies about the war originated with Bush and his band of villains.

I believe AW's point was that it is Aussies' responsibility to oust Howard and Britons' responsibility to oust Blair, since both leaders brought their nations to war along with Bush. If you hold individual Americans partly responsible for the continued presence of Bush and his political/military actions, then you must also hold individual Brits and Aussies responsible for Howard's and Blair's continued presence and participation in the war (and lying to get their respective nations into the war). Yet, a certain global consensus is that individual Brits and Aussies are not responsible, only Americans are responsible for their national leadership. Where are the Sydney and Melbourne marches to oust Howard? Are Londoners organizing mass civil disobedience to get rid of Blair? No. So why is their inaction more excusable than an American's? Why is an individual American tourist in Quebec more of a global political pariah than a nearly identical Aussie tourist in Quebec?