Maple Leaf Patches/Pins

[Liam]

I was chatting with someone about a trip to Europe when the issue of wearing a maple leaf pin came up. It is somewhat true (but also largely urban legend) that lots of Americans will put a Canadian flag on their backpack while traveling in Europe. Some do it, I admit, but I think the practice is not as prevalent as you'd believe. I know a few Canadians who would never fly the maple leaf at home who have made a point of wearing their Canadian-ness while overseas.

As an American, I find few things more offensive whether done by an American trying to hide his nationality, or by a Canadian who does it solely to show the world she doesn't have the communicable Yanks Disease. :angry:

I'd like to get the opinions of Canadians about this. Do you wear a Canadian flag pin when traveling? If so, why?

[guyser]

I personally know some Americans that have done it. When asked why, they said it removes any remarks made to them on the street. Should they meet any locals , they would come clean. It just helped them a little bit.

No harm no foul as I see it.

When I am travelling I will sometimes have a flag or symbol but only because it was there, not a conscious decision to wear one.

[Remiel]

So, in other words you are saying it is repulsive to be unpatriotic if you are an American, and repulsive to be patriotic if you are a Canadian?

If it was the difference between being the constant target of insults and a relatively nice time, why *wouldnt* a Canadian advertise that fact?

[Fortunata]

I wear a maple leaf when I travel. It's a great conversation starter and, right off, people know what language I speak. The one time we did not, not only didn't we get pegged as Americans, we also blended in I guess because we didn't get the people coming up to talk as much. So, from then on a maple leaf went on the backpacks, the sleeves, the luggage. It's great.

[Wilber]

I've never worn anything that identified me as a Canadian. If I'm mistaken for an American, that's OK, It can be like giving a false name when your behaviour isn't quite what it should be.

[Charles Anthony]

and repulsive to be patriotic if you are a Canadian?

If a Canadian DID NOT wear a maple leaf, that Canadian would be automatically assumed to be American.

If it was the difference between being the constant target of insults and a relatively nice time, why *wouldnt* a Canadian advertise that fact?

A Canadian would not advertize that fact if he believed he was truly different from Americans.

[Liam]

So, in other words you are saying it is repulsive to be unpatriotic if you are an American, and repulsive to be patriotic if you are a Canadian?

No, what I am saying is that it is fine to be patriotic, regardless of your national origin. The problem is that there is often a double standard applied: when a Canadian wears a maple leaf, it is seen as a matter of national pride but when an American wears a baseball hat or Yankees tee shirt while in Europe he is seen as an Ugly American and something a lot of people (including some in this forum) would roll their eyes at. (Personally, when I see a British tourist wearing a Man. Utd. jersey, I think it is kind of cool and don't consider it provincial of him or as Ugly British.)

As far as its making a difference between being the target of constant insults and having a good time... uh, don't you see a basic problem there? I mean, doesn't part of you think it's kind of unfair to begin with that, by your own statement, Americans run the risk of being the target of constant insults when they step outside the US?

Playing Devil's Advocate: don't you think that wearing a Canadian pin for the sole reason of not being confused with a dirty, imperialist American is sort of like a pedestrian's seeing a street fight but ignoring it so long as it doesn't effect him ("...so what if that woman is being whomped on by that guy, if I just keep my head down, no one will bother me...")?

[PocketRocket]

Playing Devil's Advocate: don't you think that wearing a Canadian pin for the sole reason of not being confused with a dirty, imperialist American is sort of like a pedestrian's seeing a street fight but ignoring it so long as it doesn't effect him ("...so what if that woman is being whomped on by that guy, if I just keep my head down, no one will bother me...")?

I don't think this is a valid analogy.

For whatever reason a Canadian may choose to wear the Maple Leaf symbol, whether it is simple pride, or to avoid being labelled American, neither reason could be considered an act such as you described above. Neither reason for wearing Canadian icons is causing anyone else damage, either actively or through neglect. Unless, of course, you are saying that America is "down and out" and getting "kicked around" by other nations, and further saying that by wearing the Maple Leaf I would be contributing to that "kicking around". My tendency would be to say that the reverse holds more truth.

If travelling overseas, I would definitely wear the Maple Leaf. Canadians are welcome and well-treated in most countries, and that is reason enough. But then again, several years ago while doing a tour of the Eastern United States, I proudly wore the Maple Leaf all the time. Believe it or not, on two separate occasions I was accosted, by Americans, for wearing my "Canadian-ness" on my sleeve. Nothing major, just some insulting talk and behaviour, the kind that makes me want to dissociate myself from their type.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Liam,

So, in other words you are saying it is repulsive to be unpatriotic if you are an American, and repulsive to be patriotic if you are a Canadian?

The problem is that there is often a double standard applied: when a Canadian wears a maple leaf, it is seen as a matter of national pride but when an American wears a baseball hat or Yankees tee shirt while in Europe he is seen as an Ugly American...

As far as its making a difference between being the target of constant insults and having a good time... uh, don't you see a basic problem there? I mean, doesn't part of you think it's kind of unfair to begin with that, by your own statement, Americans run the risk of being the target of constant insults when they step outside the US?

I should think that you should question "Why is this so?"

[Topaz]

Perhaps we should ask why the "need " for US citizen to HAVE to another country's symbol?? The US foreign policies and the corruption of the CIA in other country's affairs is the main reason. I remember watching Oprah, and she went to different countries and asked the citizens why do you dislike or hate the USA. The people didn't have any difficulties saying what was on their minds and why they disliked America. This was BEFORE the Bush era and the hatered for America is even stronger. Everyone knows that Americans are wearing the pins because they think being a Canadian will keep them safe. This action is turning dangerous for Canadians because the people who would hurt Americans will hurt Canadians because they know what the people wearing the Canadian pins may not be Canadians.

[Liam]

I should think that you should question "Why is this so?"

I totally understand why a local would be abrupt or even callous to a boorish individual tourist. No misunderstanding there.

I also understand that a lot of the reason why Americans may be mistreated overseas is US foreign policy. I should think that you could then as, "Why is *that* so?" Why is *that* acceptable or excusable? If you think it is justified, how would you like to be on the receiving end? Canada is fighting alongside the US in Afghanistan -- would you think it understandable for you, as a Canadian, to be mistreated while visiting a Muslim country? Aren't you as much personally responsible for the misguided acts of Stephen Harper's as I am for George Bush's?

[Ricki Bobbi]

I'd like to get the opinions of Canadians about this. Do you wear a Canadian flag pin when traveling? If so, why?

I think wearing the maple leaf when you travel, is lame and immature. Here is a quote from an acquaintance as to why he wears the maple leaf when he travels. The dullness of his platitudes and self-delusion pretty much sum up why I DON'T where the maple leag when I travel.

I've been asked countless times why it is that most Canadians wear a Canadian flag patch on their backpacks. My answer always includes Canada's multiculturalism, incredible nature, and quality of education and health care. But I suppose the predominant reason for wearing a Canada flag while traveling would be Canada's track record with respect to international foreign policy. There's nowhere in the world I can travel where Canadians have trodden on people or made a mess. It's so easy to be proud of a country like Canada when it is internationally respected as a peace-keeping, consensus building and humanitarian nation.

How is it so easy to remain deluded about our country's place in the world?

For me, it seems like young, punk Canadians tend wot where the flag when they travel out of a sense of self-loathing and deep-seated jealousy for the Americans. Sort of like how every office or department in any way related to the Canadian government has to have Canada in the title.

[Who's Doing What?]

A couple of reasons why people wear the Canadian Flag abroad:

1. In Europe after the World Wars, Canadians were treated with special respect and kindness in part due to the sacrifices they made to keep the continent free. Wearing the flag or Maple Leaf, could open doors for you.

2. When going to poor countries like Mexico, it was recommended that you wear the Canadian flag so you would be less likely to get robbed. When there was a large difference in exchange rates, thieves didn't want to waste their time robbing Canadians when American currency was worth alot more. With a closer exchange rate I'm sure thieves aren't so picky.

[Ricki Bobbi]

1. In Europe after the World Wars, Canadians were treated with special respect and kindness in part due to the sacrifices they made to keep the continent free. Wearing the flag or Maple Leaf, could open doors for you.

2. When going to poor countries like Mexico, it was recommended that you wear the Canadian flag so you would be less likely to get robbed. When there was a large difference in exchange rates, thieves didn't want to waste their time robbing Canadians when American currency was worth alot more. With a closer exchange rate I'm sure thieves aren't so picky.

What?

WWII ended over 60 years ago. Does the Maple Leaf still open doors?

Are you really saying there were Mexican thieves who would turn up their nose at stealing from Canadians because the Canadian dollar was worth a lot less than the US dollar? Sounds like a very odd mindset indeed. Who was making this *recommendation*?

[PocketRocket]

I also understand that a lot of the reason why Americans may be mistreated overseas is US foreign policy. I should think that you could then as, "Why is *that* so?" Why is *that* acceptable or excusable? If you think it is justified, how would you like to be on the receiving end?

I don't recall seeing anyone on this board saying that this type of behaviour is acceptable or excusable.

It is simply there.

But if you want the reverse side of the same coin, look at all the France-bashing that went on in the USA when France refused to join in the Iraqi affair.

Was that "acceptable" or "excusable"???

I don't believe it was, but it happened.

I don't think individuals, or indeed nations, should be made into scapegoats because of the actions of their goverments.

But it happens.

It's part of the human condition, unfortunately, and just as prevalent within the USA as it is elsewhere.

[PocketRocket]

WWII ended over 60 years ago. Does the Maple Leaf still open doors?

Take a trip to Holland and find out for yourself.

You'll be very happy you wore the Maple Leaf.

[Wilber]

Funny but I've never felt insulted whenever I have been mistaken for an American. I wonder which bothers Canadians more, the fact they are mistaken for Americans or that we are enough alike that most people can't tell the difference.

[guyser]

What?

WWII ended over 60 years ago. Does the Maple Leaf still open doors?

Are you really saying there were Mexican thieves who would turn up their nose at stealing from Canadians because the Canadian dollar was worth a lot less than the US dollar? Sounds like a very odd mindset indeed. Who was making this *recommendation*?

Never been to the Netherlands I take it? Don't know about Mexico.

[Drea]

Funny but I've never felt insulted whenever I have been mistaken for an American. I wonder which bothers Canadians more, the fact they are mistaken for Americans or that we are enough alike that most people can't tell the difference.

An American cannot go overseas and "pretend" he's a Brit or an Aussie (wrong accent). Canadians and Americans do sound alike for the most part.

Look alike? I dunno, David Suzuki doesn't look much like Condi Rice -- so that's not it. Our countries are full of people of all colours. Condi looks like she is from Uganda perhaps, while David looks like he's from Tibet perhaps. Sooooo -- the fact that we "look" alike is not a fact at all.

If Americans are so darn proud of their country and really truly believe that the US is a force for good in the world, why do they feel the need to hide behind the Maple Leaf? That's my only question.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Take a trip to Holland and find out for yourself.

You'll be very happy you wore the Maple Leaf.

So it's not Europe where people remember the Canadian contribution to the war anymore but just Holland? I guess....

Germany and Austria was cool but they didn't really care too much about Canada. Except for the skiiers which I thought was pretty cool. People still remembered the crazy canucks.

[Drea]

If Americans are so darn proud of their country and really truly believe that the US is a force for good in the world, why do they feel the need to hide behind the Maple Leaf? That's my only question.

[Wilber]

Not to say it never happens but I have never met an American hiding behind the Maple Leaf. Could it be that this is mostly a Canadian urban legend designed to feed our superiority complex?

[ft.niagara]

If Americans are so darn proud of their country and really truly believe that the US is a force for good in the world, why do they feel the need to hide behind the Maple Leaf? That's my only question.

I also do not know of anyone who has done such with a maple leaf pin. I have been given numerous red and white pins over the years, but never used one to hide behind. Further, I do not think it would be so much as hiding as if one is one a vacation, he might be in vacation mode. If one is at home, he might be in political discussion mode. Then again, some are not interested in politics at all, ever. Canada never does anything to upset, so Canadians are never subject to political questioning.

I remember when I was 13, I was an exchange student to Panama. The adults soon gathered and asked me what I thought about the Panama Canal question. It soon became apparent how silly the question was, because I at 13 knew nothing of the history of the Panama Canal and the question of its just ownership.

[Drea]

If Americans are so darn proud of their country and really truly believe that the US is a force for good in the world, why do they feel the need to hide behind the Maple Leaf? That's my only question.

I also do not know of anyone who has done such with a maple leaf pin. I

Oh, I thought this thread was about Americans who use the Maple Leaf when travelling. Doesn't happen you say.

Ok.

Just to clarify -- I didn't mean actually hiding behind a huge maple leaf...

[margrace]

There was some talk last year of a kit being sold in the US for traveller, Here is the reference.

I guess there was some political discussion about it in the Washington Times.

New Mexico based T-shirt king offered a "Going Canadian" kit for $25 dollars. It included a t-shirt with the Canadian Flag and matching pin, maple leaf patch for luguage, window sticker, lapel pin, and a little guide called "How to speak Canadian EH"

The article was in the Washington Times and evidently the kit was a real good seller.