Who is racist?

[JerrySeinfeld]

A good (older) article by Mark Steyn

Full article (well worth the read)

an excerpt:

These days, whenever something goofy turns up on the news, chances are it involves a fellow called Mohammed. A plane flies into the World Trade Centre? Mohammed Atta. A gunman shoots up the El Al counter at Los Angeles airport? Hesham Mohamed Hedayet. A sniper starts killing petrol station customers around Washington, DC? John Allen Muhammed. A guy fatally stabs a Dutch movie director? Mohammed Bouyeri. A terrorist slaughters dozens in Bali? Noordin Mohamed. A gang-rapist in Sydney? Mohammed Skaf.

Maybe all these Mohammeds are victims of Australian white racists and American white racists and Dutch white racists and Balinese white racists and Beslan schoolgirl white racists.

But the eagerness of the Aussie and British and Canadian and European media, week in, week out, to attribute each outbreak of an apparently universal phenomenon to strictly local factors is starting to look pathological. "Violence and racism are bad", but so is self-delusion.

[reffric]

Nice article, but a few things were a little off.....

After 9/11, a friend in London said to me she couldn't stand all the America-needs-to-ask-itself-what-it-did-to-provoke-this-anger stuff because she used to work at a rape crisis centre and she'd heard this blame-the-victim routine far too often: the Great Satan, like the dolly bird in the low-cut top and mini-skirt, was asking for it.

I don't think you can compare the United States to a rape victim. That might be a bit of a stretch. One is an innocent girl maybe out with some friends or involved in a disfunctional family. The other is involved in military occupations of foreign countries. Slight difference.

"His parents, Eddy and Samira, who have lived in Australia since 1972, said their five children would be allowed to go to the beach again only when the 'conflict is resolved and peace is restored' in the Sutherland shire region. 'If there's no more conflict, I will let him go,' Samira, 42, told the Australian in Arabic."

In Arabic? Let's suppose that Cate Blanchett got her wish and a tidal wave of tolerance washed into all those "dark corners of Australian society" taking the chill off the chilling glimpse Squires got. How are even the most impeccably diverse multicultural types supposed to welcome into the bosom of their boundlessly tolerant family a woman who prefers to speak the language of the land she left at nine? When it comes to "racism by exclusion", who's excluding whom?

Oh my god, they spoke a different language. Get out the pitchforks everybody. So what if she speaks a different language? What the fuck has that got to do with anything. I'll have to remember that when I'm walking through the mall in Burnaby and I hear Cantonese from a group of people. Should we beat these people until they learn the language we speak?

[Remiel]

The United States is the king of the blame-the-victim routine. They've raped countries, and when one of those countries elects a regime that will fight back and wound the U.S., they sentence it to death.

[Black Dog]

A good...article by Mark Steyn

Impossible.

(well worth the read)

Impossible.

[JerrySeinfeld]

A good...article by Mark Steyn

Impossible.

(well worth the read)

Impossible.

Haha - my prediction of a steady stream of ad-hominem comments by lefties has materialized

Play the ball - not the man

[Remiel]

Well, Jerry, you're the one pitching out. There is no ball to swing at.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Well, Jerry, you're the one pitching out. There is no ball to swing at.

I believe the phrase comes from soccer.

[Remiel]

Then Jerry, why do you continuously set us up to shoot on your own net? You continue to post this garbage, and somehow expect us to entertain you by pretending it is other than such? Get real.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Then Jerry, why do you continuously set us up to shoot on your own net? You continue to post this garbage, and somehow expect us to entertain you by pretending it is other than such? Get real.

Boohoo. Read the article and form an intelligent comment. That's what these forums are for.

[Black Dog]

Boohoo. Read the article and form an intelligent comment. That's what these forums are for.

This comment would be sage wisdom if it came from pretty much anybody else. In this context, though, it can only be satire.

Anyhoo, I've "played the ball" with Steyn on numerous occasions, but in order to do a comprehensive rebuttal, one first requires something of substance to rebut. Steyn's blubberings on any subject other than theatre are as wispy and ethereal as morning mist and evaporate just as quickly when exposed to sunlight. Indeed, it's almost safe to say that Steyn refutes himself by offering so little in the way of substance, analysis or even coherence. Strip away the bloated verbiage and the thin veneer of sophistication (which is belied by the vulgarity of the content) and his columns are shrill, unhinged rage-a-thons that could have issued from the food-intake of the basest internet troll over at Stormfront. That he's regarded as one of the right's best and brightest (a textbook triumph of style over substance) should be a source of shame for any intelligent and principled right winger.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Boohoo. Read the article and form an intelligent comment. That's what these forums are for.

This comment would be sage wisdom if it came from pretty much anybody else. In this context, though, it can only be satire.

Anyhoo, I've "played the ball" with Steyn on numerous occasions, but in order to do a comprehensive rebuttal, one first requires something of substance to rebut. Steyn's blubberings on any subject other than theatre are as wispy and ethereal as morning mist and evaporate just as quickly when exposed to sunlight. Indeed, it's almost safe to say that Steyn refutes himself by offering so little in the way of substance, analysis or even coherence. Strip away the bloated verbiage and the thin veneer of sophistication (which is belied by the vulgarity of the content) and his columns are shrill, unhinged rage-a-thons that could have issued from the food-intake of the basest internet troll over at Stormfront. That he's regarded as one of the right's best and brightest (a textbook triumph of style over substance) should be a source of shame for any intelligent and principled right winger.

Excellent ad-hominem comment (if a bit redundant and tired).

You are a master at avoiding the subject matter at hand with your own blubberings which have no pertinance to the subject matter. But then again, you're a lefty so it's to be expected

[reffric]

Boohoo. Read the article and form an intelligent comment. That's what these forums are for.

I try and I get back.....

Haha - my prediction of a steady stream of ad-hominem comments by lefties has materialized

Play the ball - not the man

Hell of a defense.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Nice article, but a few things were a little off.....

After 9/11, a friend in London said to me she couldn't stand all the America-needs-to-ask-itself-what-it-did-to-provoke-this-anger stuff because she used to work at a rape crisis centre and she'd heard this blame-the-victim routine far too often: the Great Satan, like the dolly bird in the low-cut top and mini-skirt, was asking for it.

I don't think you can compare the United States to a rape victim. That might be a bit of a stretch. One is an innocent girl maybe out with some friends or involved in a disfunctional family. The other is involved in military occupations of foreign countries. Slight difference.

"His parents, Eddy and Samira, who have lived in Australia since 1972, said their five children would be allowed to go to the beach again only when the 'conflict is resolved and peace is restored' in the Sutherland shire region. 'If there's no more conflict, I will let him go,' Samira, 42, told the Australian in Arabic."

In Arabic? Let's suppose that Cate Blanchett got her wish and a tidal wave of tolerance washed into all those "dark corners of Australian society" taking the chill off the chilling glimpse Squires got. How are even the most impeccably diverse multicultural types supposed to welcome into the bosom of their boundlessly tolerant family a woman who prefers to speak the language of the land she left at nine? When it comes to "racism by exclusion", who's excluding whom?

Oh my god, they spoke a different language. Get out the pitchforks everybody. So what if she speaks a different language? What the fuck has that got to do with anything. I'll have to remember that when I'm walking through the mall in Burnaby and I hear Cantonese from a group of people. Should we beat these people until they learn the language we speak?

More to the point of the article:

How is it that a woman get's gang raped, told that she's gonna learn to get "fucked leb style" and the backlash is against the sentence being too racist?

[reffric]

More to the point of the article:

How is it that a woman get's gang raped, told that she's gonna learn to get "fucked leb style" and the backlash is against the sentence being too racist?

The sentence was for 55 years. I don't know if that is considered a large penalty for rape, but I think that might have been the bulk of the controversey. As for the comments made by the reporter that we should look at society and ask the question, why are these things happening?, might actually be a good exercise. I mean if you have a problem of more homelessness or more ethnic gang crime, one should look at society as a whole and question why it is occuring. The answer may not always be that there are just more people or that a certain group of people are more likely to do something, although that could certainly be part of the answer. Actually investigating the situation, rather than just swinging from the fences may be a more constructive solution. This articles attempt is to try and silence those who think that the society as a whole may be able to help develop a constructive solution rather than the solution obviously stated here that it is all those people.

[Black Dog]

You are a master at avoiding the subject matter at hand with your own blubberings which have no pertinance to the subject matter. But then again, you're a lefty so it's to be expected

Uh, the matter at hand is Mark Steyn colum. My comments are on Mark Steyn's body of work. They are quite relevant.

As for the subject matter: as i said, most of Styen's column(s) are totalkly incohate, swerving this way and that between anecdotes of varying degrees of veracity, sometimes alighting on a point and sometimes not. This is no exception. Does he really need that many words to say "Argghh! Muslims bad!!! Blaggghrrgh!"?

After 9/11, a friend in London said to me she couldn't stand all the America-needs-to-ask-itself-what-it-did-to-provoke-this-anger stuff because she used to work at a rape crisis centre and she'd heard this blame-the-victim routine far too often: the Great Satan, like the dolly bird in the low-cut top and mini-skirt, was asking for it. Even so, it's still a surprise to hear the multiculti apologists apply the argument to actual rape victims.

It blows me away that Steyn and hacks like him always seem to have a abundance of friends, aquaintances, taxi cab drivers, deli owners and other "men on the street" types with uncanny knacks for making comments that just so happen to support the thrust of said hack's column. It's freaky, really.

These days, whenever something goofy turns up on the news, chances are it involves a fellow called Mohammed. A plane flies into the World Trade Centre? Mohammed Atta. A gunman shoots up the El Al counter at Los Angeles airport? Hesham Mohamed Hedayet. A sniper starts killing petrol station customers around Washington, DC? John Allen Muhammed. A guy fatally stabs a Dutch movie director? Mohammed Bouyeri. A terrorist slaughters dozens in Bali? Noordin Mohamed. A gang-rapist in Sydney? Mohammed Skaf.

So, if you cherry-pick news stories involving Muslims in order to create the impression that Muslims are a problem, then these results are unsurprising.

But to the point, such as it is.

And the cries of "Racist!" are intended to make any discussion of that cultural problem beyond the pale.

So let's talk about the cultural problem: is it that far too many Muslims name their kids Muhammad?

But the eagerness of the Aussie and British and Canadian and European media, week in, week out, to attribute each outbreak of an apparently universal phenomenon to strictly local factors is starting to look pathological. "Violence and racism are bad", but so is self-delusion.

IOW: "Close examination of any factors at play must be discarded in favour of superficial judgements."

[JerrySeinfeld]

It blows me away that Steyn and hacks like him always seem to have a abundance of friends, aquaintances, taxi cab drivers, deli owners and other "men on the street" types with uncanny knacks for making comments that just so happen to support the thrust of said hack's column. It's freaky, really.

Yea - I know the idea of listening to something other than the elitist drivel spouted by a "royal commission" or a "special envoy" is unfathomable to most lefties.

So, if you cherry-pick news stories involving Muslims in order to create the impression that Muslims are a problem, then these results are unsurprising.

More to the point, you could stick your head in the sand (as you obviously have) and pretend that the ongoing news stories involving self-detonating, beheading, sniper, beslan school shooting Muslims have absolutely nothing in common

So let's talk about the cultural problem: is it that far too many Muslims name their kids Muhammad?

No. It's that - in the words of a Muslim mother of martyrs - "they blow up so fast"

IOW: "Close examination of any factors at play must be discarded in favour of superficial judgements."

Riiiiight....go with the company line DOGGY So when the Toronto bombers were arrested and the Police chief proudly announced that the arrests were from a "broad strata of society" and the Mayor of Toronto blamed the plot on bad social programs...THAT wasn't being superficial - but the global jihad WAS?

BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Michael Hardner]

Jerry, you asked BlackDog to play the ball not the man. He did, and your response is:

More to the point, you could stick your head in the sand (as you obviously have)

We've been over this territory before, and yet you continue to cite anecdotal evidence as 'proof' of an international Muslim conspiracy. Honestly, you're not arguing in good faith here.

[Higgly]

I am happy to play the ball. Try criticizing Israel and see what accusations of racism come from the right.

A good hockey coach will tell a defenceman to play the man and leave the puck for the forwards - just in case we might be looking for a Canadian point of reference.

[BubberMiley]

Honestly, you're not arguing in good faith here.

I think his faith is there, but his ability to make an intelligent argument is where he's lacking.

[White Doors]

It blows me away that Steyn and hacks like him always seem to have a abundance of friends, aquaintances, taxi cab drivers, deli owners and other "men on the street" types with uncanny knacks for making comments that just so happen to support the thrust of said hack's column. It's freaky, really.

Yea - I know the idea of listening to something other than the elitist drivel spouted by a "royal commission" or a "special envoy" is unfathomable to most lefties.

So, if you cherry-pick news stories involving Muslims in order to create the impression that Muslims are a problem, then these results are unsurprising.

More to the point, you could stick your head in the sand (as you obviously have) and pretend that the ongoing news stories involving self-detonating, beheading, sniper, beslan school shooting Muslims have absolutely nothing in common

So let's talk about the cultural problem: is it that far too many Muslims name their kids Muhammad?

No. It's that - in the words of a Muslim mother of martyrs - "they blow up so fast"

IOW: "Close examination of any factors at play must be discarded in favour of superficial judgements."

Riiiiight....go with the company line DOGGY So when the Toronto bombers were arrested and the Police chief proudly announced that the arrests were from a "broad strata of society" and the Mayor of Toronto blamed the plot on bad social programs...THAT wasn't being superficial - but the global jihad WAS?

BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

ahhahahhahaha!!!!

[Black Dog]

QUOTE(JerrySeinfeld @ Dec 7 2006, 09:19 AM)

QUOTE

It blows me away that Steyn and hacks like him always seem to have a abundance of friends, aquaintances, taxi cab drivers, deli owners and other "men on the street" types with uncanny knacks for making comments that just so happen to support the thrust of said hack's column. It's freaky, really.

Yea - I know the idea of listening to something other than the elitist drivel spouted by a "royal commission" or a "special envoy" is unfathomable to most lefties.

Well, I gave up on listening to imaginary friends when I was, like, four. But then, I wasn't getting paid to write columns where their imaginary viewpoints could come in handy. Perhaps if I was, I too would have a mental stable of wise, "jus' folks" archetypes to draw from, just like My Fair Steyny.

But the real comedy gold is in the way moronic right-wingers spew vitriol at "elites," even as they prostratate themselves before people (for example, George W. Bush and Mark Steyn) who, by any reasonable definition of the word, are paid-in-full members of society's elite. But I guess the influence and power of the President of the U.S.A. (the scoin of east-coast millionaires) and an internationally recognized journalist and jet-setting pal of Conrad Black pale in comparison to some polysci prof at the U of T.

[Figleaf]

A good (older) article by Mark Steyn

Full article (well worth the read)

an excerpt:

These days, whenever something goofy turns up on the news, chances are it involves a fellow called Mohammed. A plane flies into the World Trade Centre? Mohammed Atta. A gunman shoots up the El Al counter at Los Angeles airport? Hesham Mohamed Hedayet. A sniper starts killing petrol station customers around Washington, DC? John Allen Muhammed. A guy fatally stabs a Dutch movie director? Mohammed Bouyeri. A terrorist slaughters dozens in Bali? Noordin Mohamed. A gang-rapist in Sydney? Mohammed Skaf.

As usual, anything from the mouth of Steyn is offensive and stupid in equal parts.

When someone bombed civilian infrastructure in Lebanon, his name was Ehud. When someone jailed disidents in Myanmar his name was Khin, when someone needlessly and illegally attacked Iraq, his name was George, when someone blew up the government building in Oklahoma, his name was Timothy.

ANYWAY ... what does this have to do with the 'left' using the epithet 'racist'?

[Figleaf]

Then Jerry, why do you continuously set us up to shoot on your own net? You continue to post this garbage, and somehow expect us to entertain you by pretending it is other than such? Get real.

Boohoo. Read the article and form an intelligent comment. That's what these forums are for.

Reading a Steyn article is not required in order to have an intelligent opinion of it. Having read even a small handful of his tripe, anyone knows that dumbed-down, insidiously prejudicial rightwing bullsh!t is the man's only stock in trade.

Even thinking rightwingers know Steyn is worthless. If you must satisfy you urge for partisan polemic, read Krauthammer at least.

[Figleaf]

Excellent ad-hominem comment (if a bit redundant and tired).

You are a master at avoiding the subject matter at hand with your own blubberings which have no pertinance to the subject matter. But then again, you're a lefty so it's to be expected

Since it appears that your first sentence is intended to introduce the example of an ad hominem that you supply in the following paragraph, you should have used a colon after the parenthesis rather than a period.

[Argus]

Then Jerry, why do you continuously set us up to shoot on your own net? You continue to post this garbage, and somehow expect us to entertain you by pretending it is other than such? Get real.

I read the article a while back. It made a lot of sense. I think some of you are simply incapable of looking at an article which opposes your political viewpoints without such a rigidly distrustful mindset that you instantly disbelieve whatever is printed. No thinking process takes place. It's instant, ideological dismissal.