kimmy Posted October 30, 2006 Report Posted October 30, 2006 Hedy Fry eventually apologized for the incident:"Yesterday, I mistakenly linked the city of Prince George with a specific hate activity," she says. "I regret that and I apologize to the people of Prince George." Link Yes, the apology was a bit late, but at least it came eventually. How long will it take MacKay to acknowledge what he said? Well, it's nice that she apologized, I suppose. But the question is, what sanctions, if any, did she face for being caught lying to Parliament? None, so far as I can tell. Is it possible that Hedy Fry actually thought she recieved a letter from the mayor? No one ever said she was the brightest... Sure, I suppose it's possible she actually thought she had received a letter that she never received. I supposed it's equally possible that Peter MacKay thought that the MP across the floor had actually stolen his canine. I mean, anything's possible. But that being said, let's say that Hedy's comments were a complete lie...would that make you more likely, or less likely to vote for her? Didn't she get re-elected a couple of times after she did that? Just wondering. To answer the question, it honestly doesn't matter much to me. I hate Fry, and what she said just confirmed my opinion of her. I'm sure that people who supported her weren't swayed much by the situation either-- perhaps they felt that she was just trying to make a point, or that her overall efforts aren't diminished by one lapse of judgment. I feel that this controversy is about the same. It's a big deal to people who already oppose the Conservatives, it's a non-issue to people who already support the Conservatives... and I suspect that when voters go to the polls they'll have bigger issues on their mind than this tempest in a teapot. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
BubberMiley Posted October 30, 2006 Report Posted October 30, 2006 Lying in Parliament is a non-issue to Conservative supporters? Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
Canadian Blue Posted October 30, 2006 Report Posted October 30, 2006 Yeah, it was a non issue down in the states when Clinton lied about getting a BJ from Lewinsky. The only people who care are ones that think they will get some political points out of it when all they are doing is wasting time that could be better spent bringing forward ideas to help the country. No money was lost, no major corruption, etc. Quote "Keep your government hands off my medicare!" - GOP activist
kimmy Posted October 30, 2006 Report Posted October 30, 2006 Lying in Parliament is a non-issue to Conservative supporters? This whole "Doggy-gate" issue is a non-issue to Conservative supporters. I mean, if he were caught lying about strong-arming the Business Development Bank of Canada into giving his friend a loan, or his personal acquaintence with ad-executives or that sort of thing, then maybe. But this issue is so trivial that I simply don't care about any aspect of it. I fully support him lying about it, in fact, if it causes Belinda Stronach even a moment of consternation. As far as I am concerned, he should have simply told her to go fuddle-duddle herself rather than denying the dog remark. The whole issue is a joke to start with and simply can't care much whether MacKay lied when he denied calling her a dog. And for those who say "if he lies about a small issue like this, he probably lies about big issues too!" Absolutely. It's just like how when you can't trust somebody to obey the small laws like jaywalking or the speed limit, how can you trust them to obey big laws like murder and arson? I mean, it's the same thing. It's gravely serious. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Argus Posted October 30, 2006 Report Posted October 30, 2006 Well I guess you have better ears than the speaker then. Not just me, pretty much anyone else who heard the tape. I guess this line from this one story presents a question, but it's pretty much moot. The point is nobody really doubts that he said and did what he's accused of saying and doing, and yet he has denied it. Nobody really doubted Trudeau or Chretien or Mulroney or Martin were liars but they still trooped down to the polls to vote them into office. And they lied about important stuff, not ridiculous things like suggesting their ex girlfriends were dogs. As a people, Canadians don't really much care if politicians are liars. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 30, 2006 Report Posted October 30, 2006 Lying in Parliament is a non-issue to Conservative supporters? It's clearly a non-issue to Canadians. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
gerryhatrick Posted October 30, 2006 Author Report Posted October 30, 2006 Lying in Parliament is a non-issue to Conservative supporters? It's clearly a non-issue to Canadians. What is your basis for that claim? Lying in Parliament is a non-issue to Canadians you say....interesting. Quote Conservative Party of Canada taking image advice from US Republican pollster: http://allpoliticsnow.com
Ricki Bobbi Posted October 30, 2006 Report Posted October 30, 2006 What is your basis for that claim?Lying in Parliament is a non-issue to Canadians you say....interesting. Take a look at the main page of the Web sites for the CBC, National Post, Globe and Mail, CTV, Toronto Star. Watch today's Question Period. None of them mentioned this scandal. It's a non-issue.... Quote Dion is a verbose, mild-mannered academic with a shaky grasp of English who seems unfit to chair a university department, much less lead a country. Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
gc1765 Posted October 30, 2006 Report Posted October 30, 2006 Well, it's nice that she apologized, I suppose. But the question is, what sanctions, if any, did she face for being caught lying to Parliament?None, so far as I can tell. Apologizing is one more step than Mackay. I'm not saying Mackay should necessarily be forced to resign. I mean it would be nice if we could hold all politicians to that standard, and boot out any politician that lies. But apparently that is not the case. If I lived in Mackay's riding, I would however think twice about voting for him, just as I would think twice about voting for Fry. I think it's important for Canadians, especially those who happen to live in Mackays riding to know the truth so that they can make an informed decision at the polls. So I think it is a pretty important story, as I think Canadians should know that the person they are potentially voting for was caught lying. Is it possible that Hedy Fry actually thought she recieved a letter from the mayor? No one ever said she was the brightest... Sure, I suppose it's possible she actually thought she had received a letter that she never received. I supposed it's equally possible that Peter MacKay thought that the MP across the floor had actually stolen his canine. I mean, anything's possible. I was actually half joking here. Anyways, I wouldn't put it past fry to make a mistake like that. Mackay, on the other hand, I thought was smarter than that....but I could be wrong... But that being said, let's say that Hedy's comments were a complete lie...would that make you more likely, or less likely to vote for her? Didn't she get re-elected a couple of times after she did that? Just wondering. Yes, I believe she did. It just goes to show that a lot of people vote for the lesser of the three evils. I dont' think fry got votes for the fact that she is a brilliant politician so much as because the residents of Vancouver would choose a liar over the conservatives or NDP. I do wonder how she keeps winning the nomination though? To answer the question, it honestly doesn't matter much to me. I hate Fry, and what she said just confirmed my opinion of her. I'm sure that people who supported her weren't swayed much by the situation either-- perhaps they felt that she was just trying to make a point, or that her overall efforts aren't diminished by one lapse of judgment. I feel that this controversy is about the same. It's a big deal to people who already oppose the Conservatives, it's a non-issue to people who already support the Conservatives... and I suspect that when voters go to the polls they'll have bigger issues on their mind than this tempest in a teapot. That may be true for some people. Personally, a person's integrity plays an important role in who I vote for. Of course, if there is no other viable option, I may have to hold my nose and vote for a liar. Or vote for an independent or fourth/fifth party even though I know I would be pretty much wasting my vote. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
gerryhatrick Posted October 30, 2006 Author Report Posted October 30, 2006 What is your basis for that claim?Lying in Parliament is a non-issue to Canadians you say....interesting. Take a look at the main page of the Web sites for the CBC, National Post, Globe and Mail, CTV, Toronto Star. Watch today's Question Period. None of them mentioned this scandal. It's a non-issue.... There is no logical connection between your observations and your claim. Do you believe that if something is an issue that it remains on the front burner of the media? The issue is evolving, with more news to come. Quote Conservative Party of Canada taking image advice from US Republican pollster: http://allpoliticsnow.com
betsy Posted October 31, 2006 Report Posted October 31, 2006 Lying in Parliament is a non-issue to Conservative supporters? It's clearly a non-issue to Canadians. And yesterday, Milleken gave a stinging speech directed to ALL members, (amid what sounded like Liberals gasping)....and gave a clear ruling: he now considers this matter closed. Quote
Argus Posted October 31, 2006 Report Posted October 31, 2006 Lying in Parliament is a non-issue to Conservative supporters? It's clearly a non-issue to Canadians. What is your basis for that claim? The basis is that Canadians continue to vote for people they know are liars. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
scribblet Posted October 31, 2006 Report Posted October 31, 2006 [quote[ And yesterday, Milleken gave a stinging speech directed to ALL members, (amid what sounded like Liberals gasping)....and gave a clear ruling: he now considers this matter closed. He did indeed, but since the opposition evidently has little else to go on about, I'm betting they'll ignore his ruling. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
Figleaf Posted October 31, 2006 Report Posted October 31, 2006 So now Norman Spectre has gone on the radio and brayed that Belinda is a "bitch", and (get this) most MEN think she's a bitch because (get THIS) she wrecked Ti Dumi's marriage and (get this) broke up with Peterless Mackay! I'm a man, and I think Spectre is out to lunch. First, Domi, not Belinda, made and (allegedly) broke his marriage vows. Second, Mackay broke off the relationship, not Belinda. Norm Spectre should be ostracized henceforth by all media, for having exposed himself as a jackass. Quote
Argus Posted October 31, 2006 Report Posted October 31, 2006 So now Norman Spectre has gone on the radio and brayed the Belinda is a "bitch", and (get this) most MEN think she's a bitch because (get THIS) she wrecked Ti Dumi's marriage and (get this)broke up with Peterless Mackay! I'm a man, and I think Spectre is out to lunch. First, Domi, not Belinda, made and (allegedly) broke his marriage vows. Second, Mackay broke off the relationship, not Belinda. Norm Spectre should be ostracized henceforth by all media, for having exposed himself as a jackass. Well, okay, but if that's the new standard Layton will never be seen or heard from again. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Ricki Bobbi Posted October 31, 2006 Report Posted October 31, 2006 I'm a man, and I think Spectre is out to lunch. First, Domi, not Belinda, made and (allegedly) broke his marriage vows. Second, Mackay broke off the relationship, not Belinda. MacKay broke up with Stronach? Whatever... Spector, can't explain what he was thinking in that interview... Quote Dion is a verbose, mild-mannered academic with a shaky grasp of English who seems unfit to chair a university department, much less lead a country. Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
gerryhatrick Posted October 31, 2006 Author Report Posted October 31, 2006 I'm a man, and I think Spectre is out to lunch. First, Domi, not Belinda, made and (allegedly) broke his marriage vows. Second, Mackay broke off the relationship, not Belinda. MacKay broke up with Stronach? Whatever... That was what was detailed in a book, but what does it matter? The speaker cannot take a position on this because Mackay will not admit what he did, so it's over. Except for the lasting impact on his credibility, it's over. Quote Conservative Party of Canada taking image advice from US Republican pollster: http://allpoliticsnow.com
betsy Posted October 31, 2006 Report Posted October 31, 2006 So now Norman Spectre has gone on the radio and brayed the Belinda is a "bitch", and (get this) most MEN think she's a bitch because (get THIS) she wrecked Ti Dumi's marriage and (get this)broke up with Peterless Mackay! I'm a man, and I think Spectre is out to lunch. First, Domi, not Belinda, made and (allegedly) broke his marriage vows. Second, Mackay broke off the relationship, not Belinda. Norm Spectre should be ostracized henceforth by all media, for having exposed himself as a jackass. Norm Specter is not in politics. For the media to have entertained the "rantings" of this man just shows how the media is lapping this all up...and loving every minute of it! This is Enquirer-stuff! Boredom-buster for the millions who hardly give a hoot about politics...but gives a darn about how Jennifer Aniston's husband was stolen by an Angelina Jolie! And what gender is more likely to read about the saga of Jennifer Aniston? Women. and Gays. I bet if they can...the media will milk this for all it's worth. Quote
scribblet Posted October 31, 2006 Report Posted October 31, 2006 Oh for pete's sakes - let sleeping dogs lie - Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
normanchateau Posted November 1, 2006 Report Posted November 1, 2006 So now Norman Spectre has gone on the radio and brayed the Belinda is a "bitch", and (get this) most MEN think she's a bitch because (get THIS) she wrecked Ti Dumi's marriage and (get this) broke up with Peterless Mackay! I'm a man, and I think Spectre is out to lunch. First, Domi, not Belinda, made and (allegedly) broke his marriage vows. Second, Mackay broke off the relationship, not Belinda. Norm Spectre should be ostracized henceforth by all media, for having exposed himself as a jackass. Norm Specter is not in politics. It's true that Norm Spector is not currently in politics but he was Chief of Staff to Brian Mulroney and is a political commentator on radio, TV and print media. Hence the media interest. Spector can criticize Belinda Stronach all he wants but needn't resort to sexist terminology. Quote
g_bambino Posted November 1, 2006 Report Posted November 1, 2006 It's true that Norm Spector is not currently in politics but he was Chief of Staff to Brian Mulroney and is a political commentator on radio, TV and print media. Hence the media interest. Spector can criticize Belinda Stronach all he wants but needn't resort to sexist terminology. His comment was crass, but calling someone a bitch is merely a personal insult, not "sexist terminology." Quote
Black Dog Posted November 1, 2006 Report Posted November 1, 2006 His comment was crass, but calling someone a bitch is merely a personal insult, not "sexist terminology." What's the definition of "bitch"? Bonus question: who, a man or a woman, is more likely to be called a "bitch"? Quote
normanchateau Posted November 1, 2006 Report Posted November 1, 2006 It's true that Norm Spector is not currently in politics but he was Chief of Staff to Brian Mulroney and is a political commentator on radio, TV and print media. Hence the media interest. Spector can criticize Belinda Stronach all he wants but needn't resort to sexist terminology. His comment was crass, but calling someone a bitch is merely a personal insult, not "sexist terminology." Then why did Spector acknowledge in his interview with Bill Good on CKNW that he would not use the word "bitch" in reference to a man? Quote
g_bambino Posted November 1, 2006 Report Posted November 1, 2006 His comment was crass, but calling someone a bitch is merely a personal insult, not "sexist terminology." Then why did Spector acknowledge in his interview with Bill Good on CKNW that he would not use the word "bitch" in reference to a man? I can't say for sure; I imagine he acknowledged it because it was his own personal decision. Quote
Black Dog Posted November 1, 2006 Report Posted November 1, 2006 I can't say for sure; I imagine he acknowledged it because it was his own personal decision. Or it could simply be that "bitch" is a term with very gender-specific connotations. It's time for an etymology lesson: bitch means female dog, which should make the gendered nature of the term clear. "Ah," I hear you say. "What of men who are called 'bitches?'" Well, with men, the implication is a bit different. To call a man a bitch is to say "you have the attributes of a woman." Alternately (and increasingly due to its pop culture useage) "bitch" can also be used to question a man's sexuality or masculinity (from the jailhouse term "bitch", which refers to an inmate's sexual subordinate: here: the gender implications are again quite clear.) All that to say that bitch is, incontrovertibly, a sexist insult by dictionary definition and popular usage. The fact that Spector has apparently admitted as much shows what an asshole he is. Quote
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