Why are the Conservatives Killing the Wheat Board?

abcon99 · December 4, 2006

Also, I don't accept polls from the institution that is being discussed. That commie junk is of no importance.

abcon99 · December 4, 2006

The points are clear.

1. Forcing anyone to sell to a government mandated monopoly is communist.

2. Wheat and grain are legal products, the stuff you mentioned are not.

3. Polls by that group are not important, federal elections are.

4. Since elections are the only polls that count, even if 100% of farmers demanded no choice, screw them, they don't get to make the law.

jdobbin · December 4, 2006

Forcing people to sell to the government monopoly, on penalty of imprisonment is communist and disgusting. I dispute that a majority of farmers don't want choice, but even if that were true, in my mind and in the minds of conservatives, if only one single farmer wants a choice in who he can sell to, then it must be so.

So you support breaking up the healthcare system as well? It is a monopoly. If I open a hospital and charge people for surgery, I could go to prison.

Renegade · December 4, 2006

If I open a hospital and charge people for surgery, I could go to prison.

And you shouldn't go to prison for that either. You should be free to sell your healthcare services to the public.

Saturn · December 4, 2006

Farmers will get what they vote for. If reopening the gay marriage debate is more important to them than farming, then that's what they are going to get.

jdobbin · December 5, 2006

And you shouldn't go to prison for that either. You should be free to sell your healthcare services to the public.

Some conservatives believe in a fully privatized healthcare, I know. Anything else is subsidized socialist healthcare.

abcon99 · December 6, 2006

I never said the wheat board or the health care systems would be destroyed, or that government safety nets are wrong. You just can't force people to sell you the crops or they go to jail, or force people to wait in line when they can pay to get treatment. Stopping it from being completly communist or socialist is the choice that people have, to sell to the government mandated monopolies, or go out on ones own. If I was a farmer, I have no idea if I would continue to use the wheat board, but I can assure you I would fight for choice, even if it is not my choice.

jdobbin · December 7, 2006

I never said the wheat board or the health care systems would be destroyed, or that government safety nets are wrong. You just can't force people to sell you the crops or they go to jail, or force people to wait in line when they can pay to get treatment. Stopping it from being completly communist or socialist is the choice that people have, to sell to the government mandated monopolies, or go out on ones own. If I was a farmer, I have no idea if I would continue to use the wheat board, but I can assure you I would fight for choice, even if it is not my choice.

If the farmers choose a single desk for the sale of their wheat, that *is* choice. What the conservatives are doing are saying they don't care what the majority of farmers want and will do what they want anyways. That is *no* choice.

hiti · December 7, 2006

Anyone want to know what will happen to grain farmers if Steve and Chuckie destroy the Wheat Board just has to look at what has happened to the pork industry.

For example, when there was a single desk for pork in Manitoba, there were 4,000 plus pork producers and five packing plants in the province. Since the single desk was removed, they now have only about 1,300 or 1,400 hog producers in the province and one packing plant.

Just how much do you want to pay for a loaf of bread?

Besides all that, the grain farmers already had a vote a few years ago and over 2/3 voted to retain the single desk with the CWB. Controlled by western Canadian farmers, the CWB is the largest wheat and barley marketer in the world. As one of Canada’s biggest exporters, the Winnipeg-based organization sells grain to more than 70 countries and returns all sales revenue, less the costs of marketing, to Prairie farmers.

What Steve is doing is making way for his friends like Cargill to take over marketing our grain, so they can keep the profits instead of paying it to the farmers.

The Bush administration issued a report in February 2003 that claimed the board enjoys advantages such as low-interest loans and use of government-owned rail cars, and that its monopoly status protects it against market risks. Canadian grain trade organizations replied that the WTO allows for bodies such as the CWB, as long as they comply with commercial business practices.

In February 2004, the World Trade Organization cleared the CWB of American accusations of unfair trade practices. The CWB called it a victory for western farmers. The WTO ruling was the 10th time in 14 years that trade rulings have backed the CWB.

scribblet · December 7, 2006

The farmers should have a choice, and have indicated in discussion s and consultations with the gov't that they would like to choose how they market their product, and why should they have to go to jail for doing so. The way I see it, and I'm no expert on this, the Wheat board wants to retain the monopoly at any cost and - there will be a a plebicite in January when famers will vote on whether to allow Barley to be marketed through other means than the Wheat Board. This will not exclude the Wheat Board - it just opens the market.

It sounds to me that the CPC is actually listening to farmers and giving them a voice and the right to choose.

Topaz · December 7, 2006

Question....why can't farmers have a CHOICE to either belong or not too?? Both sides would be happy and then there would be peace on the prairies!

scribblet · December 7, 2006

My question too, and why should they go to jail for not obeying the monopolistic autocratic Wheat board.

Renegade · December 7, 2006

Question....why can't farmers have a CHOICE to either belong or not too?? Both sides would be happy and then there would be peace on the prairies!

I'll tell you why. (At least as characterisized by the pro status-quo side). If you gave farmers a choice, they would do what is best in their financial interest, meaning when the market price is higher, they will sell through the market. When the CWB price is higher they will sell through the CWB. That means that the CWB, when they misestimate prices, will be in situations where they must buy wheat at higher prices and resell it at lower prices. At some point they will go bankrupt, so they only option for the CWB to survive is to FORCE all farmers to sell through it.

Technocrat · December 7, 2006

The CWB is a monopsony... which differs from a monopoly.

Excellent explanation of a Monopsony (they were barely mentioned in BCOMM economics)

As far as the farmer being jailed... I give you the Canadian Wheat Board Act.

PART IV
REGULATION OF INTERPROVINCIAL AND EXPORT TRADE IN WHEAT

Prohibited Activities

Trading in wheat or wheat products

45. Except as permitted under the regulations, no person other than the Corporation shall

(a) export from Canada wheat or wheat products owned by a person other than the Corporation;

( transport or cause to be transported from one province to another province, wheat or wheat products owned by a person other than the Corporation;

© sell or agree to sell wheat or wheat products situated in one province for delivery in another province or outside Canada; or

(d) buy or agree to buy wheat or wheat products situated in one province for delivery in another province or outside Canada.

R.S., 1985, c. C-24, s. 45; 1994, c. 47, s. 48; 1998, c. 17, s. 28(E).

Delivery in Contravention of Act
Where grain delivered in contravention of Act

66. (1) Where any producer has delivered grain to an elevator in contravention of this Act or the orders of the Corporation, the Corporation may order the manager or operator of the elevator to redeliver grain of an equal grade, quality and amount to the producer and the producer to take delivery from the manager or operator of the elevator of that grain and to repay all moneys, if any, received by him in respect of delivery of the first mentioned grain.

Compliance not to relieve from punishment

(2) Compliance by any person with an order of the Corporation made under subsection (1) does not relieve that person from any punishment imposed by this Act in respect of any act or omission by that person in contravention of this Act or a regulation or order.

R.S., 1985, c. C-24, s. 66; 1998, c. 17, ss. 28(E), 29(F).

Offences and Punishment
Definition of “initial payment”

68. (1) In this section, “initial payment” means

(a) in respect of wheat, oats and barley, the sum certain basis in storage at a pooling point payable pursuant to subsection 32(1) for the wheat, oats or barley in relation to which the offence was committed;

( in respect of rye, flaxseed and rapeseed, the price basis in storage at a pooling point paid for the rye, flaxseed or rapeseed in relation to which the offence was committed; and

© notwithstanding paragraphs (a) and (, in respect of any grain the marketing of which is subject to a marketing plan established under Part VI, the sum certain basis in storage at a pooling point payable pursuant to the marketing plan, at the time of delivery or at any time thereafter as may be agreed on, by the administrator of the plan to a producer participating in the plan for the grain in relation to which the offence was committed.

Offences

(2) Every person is guilty of an offence who

(a) being required to make any return or declaration under this Act or any regulation or order, furnishes any false information or makes any false statement in that return or declaration or fails fully to complete that return or declaration;

( makes a false entry in any permit book or other document required to be completed by him under this Act; or

© contravenes or omits to comply with this Act or any regulation or order.

Punishment

(3) Every person who is guilty of an offence under subsection (2) is liable on summary conviction

(a) in the case of a producer convicted of an offence relating to the delivery of grain, to a fine of an amount equal to one-third of the initial payment for the grain in relation to which the offence was committed, but that amount shall not be less than fifty dollars or more than three hundred dollars;

( in the case of an operator or a manager of an elevator convicted of an offence relating to the delivery of grain, to a fine of an amount equal to one-third of the initial payment for the grain in relation to which the offence was committed, but that amount shall not be less than fifty dollars or more than two thousand dollars; and

© in any other case, to a fine not exceeding five thousand dollars or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years or to both.

Corporation offender

(4) Where a corporation commits an offence under this Act, any officer, director or agent of the corporation who directed, authorized, assented to, acquiesced in or participated in the commission of the offence is a party to and guilty of the offence.

Limitation period for proceedings

(5) Any proceedings by way of summary conviction in respect of an offence under this Act may be instituted at any time within but not later than two years after the time when the subject-matter of the proceedings arose.

R.S., 1985, c. C-24, s. 68; 1995, c. 31, s. 8.

Contracts, etc., in contravention of Act

69. Any contract or agreement for the sale, purchase, or transportation of wheat or wheat products in contravention of this Act or of any regulation or order is void.

R.S., c. C-12, s. 43.

The farmer broke the law... ignorance of the law is not a defense.

Sorry about the emoticons... the act includes some punctuation that brings it out in the forums...

CoachCartman · December 8, 2006

The sad part is farmers in Sask, Man, Albt. and parts of BC go to jail for selling their own grain abroad, while anyone else in the country can do with it as they will. I, for one, can not wait to market my own wheat and barley!

jdobbin · December 8, 2006

The sad part is farmers in Sask, Man, Albt. and parts of BC go to jail for selling their own grain abroad, while anyone else in the country can do with it as they will. I, for one, can not wait to market my own wheat and barley!

You think you can make it without the Board?

blueblood · December 8, 2006

The sad part is farmers in Sask, Man, Albt. and parts of BC go to jail for selling their own grain abroad, while anyone else in the country can do with it as they will. I, for one, can not wait to market my own wheat and barley!

You think you can make it without the Board?

I support the Board, but playing devil's advocate, if the guys out east can make it why can't he?, plus my canola doesn't go through the board...

jdobbin · December 8, 2006

I support the Board, but playing devil's advocate, if the guys out east can make it why can't he?, plus my canola doesn't go through the board...

Only 5% of wheat and barley are farmed east of Manitoba. They usually have other crops rather than full grain farms. The Wheat Board has lots of information on all of this on their site.

Canola is a Canadian invention. Canadian Oil Low Acid.

The rest of the world doesn't grow it like Canada and the U.S. does. There is huge demand for it, especially in the United States. The prairie provinces grow most of it; North Dakota grows most for the U.S.

The price for canola is set in Winnipeg by the Commodity Exchange.

Canola is a speciality crop that Canada pretty much has a lock on. It doesn't need a marketer for it like wheat and barley do. Wheat and barley in the U.S. are subsidized and protected through the nose.

blueblood · December 8, 2006

I support the Board, but playing devil's advocate, if the guys out east can make it why can't he?, plus my canola doesn't go through the board...

Only 5% of wheat and barley are farmed east of Manitoba. They usually have other crops rather than full grain farms. The Wheat Board has lots of information on all of this on their site.

Canola is a Canadian invention. Canadian Oil Low Acid.

The rest of the world doesn't grow it like Canada and the U.S. does. There is huge demand for it, especially in the United States. The prairie provinces grow most of it; North Dakota grows most for the U.S.

The price for canola is set in Winnipeg by the Commodity Exchange.

Canola is a speciality crop that Canada pretty much has a lock on. It doesn't need a marketer for it like wheat and barley do. Wheat and barley in the U.S. are subsidized and protected through the nose.

Hey it's still 5%, why should they be exempt, it's still BS.

Too bad canola gets owned by soy beans and other vegetable oils when we export it, go biodiesel and nexera cooking oil. Canola has the potential of going around 10 bucks a bushel and has gone there, but due to competitions from other oils and other factors it went to a low of around 5 bucks or less and is around the middle of those two numbers now.

jdobbin · December 8, 2006

Hey it's still 5%, why should they be exempt, it's still BS.
Too bad canola gets owned by soy beans and other vegetable oils when we export it, go biodiesel and nexera cooking oil. Canola has the potential of going around 10 bucks a bushel and has gone there, but due to competitions from other oils and other factors it went to a low of around 5 bucks or less and is around the middle of those two numbers now.

The farmers of the west wanted the Wheat Board for themselves. Do you have evidence that wheat farmers in the east get better prices?

As for canola's price, it is affected by the subsidies that the American corn oil industry gets.

blueblood · December 8, 2006

Hey it's still 5%, why should they be exempt, it's still BS.

Too bad canola gets owned by soy beans and other vegetable oils when we export it, go biodiesel and nexera cooking oil. Canola has the potential of going around 10 bucks a bushel and has gone there, but due to competitions from other oils and other factors it went to a low of around 5 bucks or less and is around the middle of those two numbers now.

The farmers of the west wanted the Wheat Board for themselves. Do you have evidence that wheat farmers in the east get better prices?

As for canola's price, it is affected by the subsidies that the American corn oil industry gets.

I will say again I support the board, but those guys out east should fall into it as well, it's a double standard, it's the CANADIAN wheat board, why should a guy out west go to Jail for selling his grain on the open market while some guy from Ontario or Quebec won't?, that's crap and you know it. I don't know if the guys east get better prices, maybe they do maybe they don't, do you have evidence they don't?

Canola's price is also affected by the Asian market, tariffs from other countries, those rat bastards from europe not importing canola due to GM fears, and the South Americans plus Eastern Europe getting their Ag sector online, i'd say Soybeans affect Canola the most.

jdobbin · December 8, 2006

I will say again I support the board, but those guys out east should fall into it as well, it's a double standard, it's the CANADIAN wheat board, why should a guy out west go to Jail for selling his grain on the open market while some guy from Ontario or Quebec won't?, that's crap and you know it. I don't know if the guys east get better prices, maybe they do maybe they don't, do you have evidence they don't?
Canola's price is also affected by the Asian market, tariffs from other countries, those rat bastards from europe not importing canola due to GM fears, and the South Americans plus Eastern Europe getting their Ag sector online, i'd say Soybeans affect Canola the most.

I can't disagree that the Wheat Board should have been all Canada. However, it was farmer wanted back in 1935 and it has remained to this day.

Soy beans is another ones of the highly subsidized crops from the U.S. Farmers seem to really get screwed by the European and American fight in agriculture.

blueblood · December 8, 2006

I will say again I support the board, but those guys out east should fall into it as well, it's a double standard, it's the CANADIAN wheat board, why should a guy out west go to Jail for selling his grain on the open market while some guy from Ontario or Quebec won't?, that's crap and you know it. I don't know if the guys east get better prices, maybe they do maybe they don't, do you have evidence they don't?

Canola's price is also affected by the Asian market, tariffs from other countries, those rat bastards from europe not importing canola due to GM fears, and the South Americans plus Eastern Europe getting their Ag sector online, i'd say Soybeans affect Canola the most.

I can't disagree that the Wheat Board should have been all Canada. However, it was farmer wanted back in 1935 and it has remained to this day.

Soy beans is another ones of the highly subsidized crops from the U.S. Farmers seem to really get screwed by the European and American fight in agriculture.

It's not the Europeans and American subsidies, it's something else, and it's here

jdobbin · December 8, 2006

It's not the Europeans and American subsidies, it's something else, and it's here

You'll have to be more specific. There are several links there and I'm not sure which one you mean.

blueblood · December 8, 2006

It's not the Europeans and American subsidies, it's something else, and it's here

You'll have to be more specific. There are several links there and I'm not sure which one you mean.

My two favorites. Link 1

Link 2

Enjoy