CSIS 'ignored' terror threats

[Leafless]

Can you imagine language squabbling or perhaps even worse trying to manipulate or perhaps control CSIS operating functions based on impressing the minority French language as the language of importance within CSIS.

Who in their right mind would incorporate any sort of bilingual policy in a an important agency such as CSIS who's main criteria is to protect the Canadian public?

If there is any example where majority rules it is this one where has there should be no question as to what language especially for all around practicability and coupled with many safety concerns should be used.

This example highlights what Charter rights and federal government bilingual policy has done to destroy the efficiency and operating characteristics not only with CSIS but within the entire public service as many federal public service complaints are duplicates of what is going on within CSIS.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...5d6&k=73695

[Michael Hardner]

This example highlights what Charter rights and federal government bilingual policy has done to destroy the efficiency and operating characteristics not only with CSIS but within the entire public service as many federal public service complaints are duplicates of what is going on within CSIS.

Actually, it does just the opposite.

The allegation is that a unilingual and unicultural agency missed some information because it came from the French sphere.

If there's any time of government agency that should incorporate as many languages as possible, it's intelligence.

[August1991]

If there is any example where majority rules it is this one where has there should be no question as to what language especially for all around practicability and coupled with many safety concerns should be used.

Leafless, you can maybe make a case for how bilingualism leads to a dysfunctional Ottawa, but this is not good evidence:

Terrorism and other national security reports from Montreal CSIS agents were ignored or delayed in translation because of anti-French prejudices and language incompetence within the spy agency's senior Ottawa ranks, according to complaints under review by the federal language watchdog.

Language incompetence? I would expect good intelligence agents to be good with languages and to think outside the box. Unfortunately, the oxymoron "military intelligence" has an origin in reality.

[kimmy]

It seems that Montreal is something of a key area for CSIS, so you'd think being able to process french-language information would be something of a necessity. I don't see why that would mean everybody in the whole agency has to be fluently bilingual, but at the very least you'd think there'd be some process in place for translation where required?

-k

[Led Boots]

What I find most disturbing about this is the lack of foresight by CSIS in ensuring an accurate and timely flow of information, regardless of the reports original language.

[Leafless]

This example highlights what Charter rights and federal government bilingual policy has done to destroy the efficiency and operating characteristics not only with CSIS but within the entire public service as many federal public service complaints are duplicates of what is going on within CSIS.

Actually, it does just the opposite.

The allegation is that a unilingual and unicultural agency missed some information because it came from the French sphere.

If there's any time of government agency that should incorporate as many languages as possible, it's intelligence.

The "French sphere" that you refer in Canada from a province that is not even 'officially bilingual' is a MINORITY LANGUAGE. The only province in Canada that can accommodate that title being 'officially bilingual' is the province of New Brunswick.

The majority language in Canada is ENGLISH.

Reports to CSIS from the U.S. and other countries utilize the international language of the world English.

Are you suggesting in the world of terrorism investigation and communication within CSIS be bogged down with time consuming hard or impossible words to translate or simple translation with the potential to produce faulty information simply to accommodate a single minority language with an agency that sometimes must communicate quickly and efficiently with other world security agencies?

[Michael Hardner]

Are you suggesting in the world of terrorism investigation and communication within CSIS be bogged down with time consuming hard or impossible words to translate or simple translation with the potential to produce faulty information simply to accommodate a single minority language with an agency that sometimes must communicate quickly and efficiently with other world security agencies?

Fine, Leafless.

If you prefer, we should show Quebec who's boss by ignoring all intelligence that isn't in English. That would lighten CSIS's workload immeasurably and quicken their communications as well.

Honestly, I wonder if you're serious about these ideas sometimes.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Fine, Leafless.

If you prefer, we should show Quebec who's boss by ignoring all intelligence that isn't in English. That would lighten CSIS's workload immeasurably and quicken their communications as well.

Honestly, I wonder if you're serious about these ideas sometimes.

Good point.

I'm no real fan of the Official Languages Act.

But intelligence is an area that does require competence in languages.

If somebody wanted to use this case about their issues with the OLA they could say that the money spent on languages should be targetted to areas where it is truly required, like CSIS.

[Leafless]

Are you suggesting in the world of terrorism investigation and communication within CSIS be bogged down with time consuming hard or impossible words to translate or simple translation with the potential to produce faulty information simply to accommodate a single minority language with an agency that sometimes must communicate quickly and efficiently with other world security agencies?

Fine, Leafless.

If you prefer, we should show Quebec who's boss by ignoring all intelligence that isn't in English. That would lighten CSIS's workload immeasurably and quicken their communications as well.

That's one solution.

How about Quebec simply communicating in English?

If Quebec were a separate country, what language do you suppose they would be using communicating with CSIS Canada?

[Leafless]

If there is any example where majority rules it is this one where has there should be no question as to what language especially for all around practicability and coupled with many safety concerns should be used.

Leafless, you can maybe make a case for how bilingualism leads to a dysfunctional Ottawa, but this is not good evidence.

One of the main causes for a dysfunctional Ottawa relates to linguistic power struggles within federal entities.

Obviously it has spread to CSIS.

[GostHacked]

Competence on both languages with both groupd is essential. Yes it sucks that Quebec is pushing french language laws, but Canada has two official languages, english and french. So people in the higher ups and intelligence agencies should be proficient in BOTH languages, regardless of where you are (ontario, quebec, Inuvut ect)

It also needs to be fair on both sides (eng/french). It does also needs streamlining and the fluff cut out. If there is so much time wasted in translation and such then the beaurocracy is overwhelming and counterproductive.

Leafless

If Quebec were a separate country, what language do you suppose they would be using communicating with CSIS Canada?

Well, I am not sure, but I would say they would have to communicate in english (if Quebec was their own country and the rest of Canada went with JUST english) And again proficiency in both languages is essential for both parties. I see what you are getting at Leafless. I agree with you for the most part as well, that one language would be more efficient. Also when Quebec lightens up their stance on 'soverignty and preservation of the french language. Then we can work more easily together, stuff does not get lost in translation, which, in the intelligence business is VITAL.

[Leafless]

Well, I am not sure, but I would say they would have to communicate in english (if Quebec was their own country and the rest of Canada went with JUST english) And again proficiency in both languages is essential for both parties.

Iam not as confident as you concerning federal official bilingualism with the emphasis on 'federal' as Canada itself is NOT officially bilingual.

The part I have trouble with is it is basically the ROC that is catering by federal demand to federal public service bilingualism while Quebec gets off WITHOUT linguistically reciprocating within it's French provincial kingdom concerning the promotion of English concerns.

In my book there is no way Quebec earned these prestigious French rights imposed by OUR federal government and simply because it pays federal taxes does not or should not justify these prestigious rights.

[jbg]

This example highlights what Charter rights and federal government bilingual policy has done to destroy the efficiency and operating characteristics not only with CSIS but within the entire public service as many federal public service complaints are duplicates of what is going on within CSIS.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...5d6&k=73695

To the contrary, the values of official bi-lingualism should and must trump all other values, even public safety and defense.

[Leafless]

This example highlights what Charter rights and federal government bilingual policy has done to destroy the efficiency and operating characteristics not only with CSIS but within the entire public service as many federal public service complaints are duplicates of what is going on within CSIS.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...5d6&k=73695

To the contrary, the values of official bi-lingualism should and must trump all other values, even public safety and defense.

Then you must be in favour of a welfare state.

Quebec is always touting Quebec superiority yet cannot even manage to support it's own province in it's official language on it's OWN without massive federal aid. Demands concerning unreasonable linguistic equality at the expense of ROC does not make economical sense and deprives Canadians of other important priorities.

Why would you suggest oppressing other Canadians in order to support Quebec's unrealistic, unjustifiable language demands?

[jbg]

Then you must be in favour of a welfare state.

Quebec is always touting Quebec superiority yet cannot even manage to support it's own province in it's official language on it's OWN without massive federal aid. Demands concerning unreasonable linguistic equality at the expense of ROC does not make economical sense and deprives Canadians of other important priorities.

Well, who says demands need to make sense, in this politically correct day and age?

Why would you suggest oppressing other Canadians in order to support Quebec's unrealistic, unjustifiable language demands?

My suggestion is that all signage and grocery labeling throughout Canada be in the native language of any "identifiable group" (borrowing from hate crimes law) with over 1.0% of Canada's population. The Jewish community would have to vote on whether "their" language was Hebrew or Yiddish. The only exception should be Quebec, which should have signs in French and Arabic.