UK terror plot aborted

[Wilber]

Just heard that the MOT has exempted crews from the extra restrictions. At least someone there has a brain. Hopefully the rest will figure it out.

[Leafless]

This is not a normal war.

The Hezbollah in Lebanon is the only single large military organized terrorist operation.

They are also a regional one. No sense conflating the Shiite Hizbullah with the global, militant ideology of, say, Al Qaeda.

How do you figure that or do you have proof of that?

Is the goal of ALL radical Muslims is to kill all Jews, Christians, Americans and anyone that does not happen to be Muslim?

[jdobbin]

How do you figure that or do you have proof of that?

Is the goal of ALL radical Muslims is to kill all Jews, Christians, Americans and anyone that does not happen to be Muslim?

Actually, they want to kill other Muslims too. Bad Muslims.

[Black Dog]

Security measures are always a question of cost vs. benefit. They could ensure even more security if everyone was required to strip and don airport issued orange jumpsuits. However, the hassles of doing that far out weigh the benefits. Mindlessing banning of all liquids on flights sounds like an over reaction.

That's why I think, instead of air marshals, every flight should have an Al Qaeda terrorist on board. the law of averages will take care of the rest.

Leafless

How do you figure that or do you have proof of that?

Hizbullah's military wing doesn't operate outside of Lebanon.

Is the goal of ALL radical Muslims is to kill all Jews, Christians, Americans and anyone that does not happen to be Muslim?

There's more than one kind of radical Muslim. hell: even radical Muslims often hate other radical Muslims.

For example.

A top Saudi Sunni cleric, whose ideas inspired Osama bin Laden, issued a religious edict Saturday disavowing the Shi'ite guerrilla group Hizbullah, evidence that a rift remained among Muslims over the fighting in Lebanon.

Hizbullah, which translates as "the party of God," is actually "the party of the devil," said Sheik Safar al-Hawali, whose radical views made the al-Qaida leader one of his followers in the past.

[GostHacked]

I think it is rediculous to ban all these liquids. Bottles water, juice, even toiletries. Come on. The plot was thwarted, because someone did their damn job. That should not all of a sudden be a reason to put a ban on bringing liquids and gels onboar.

Maybe "their job" involved examining every single ridiculous container.

I think they should ban every stupid container.

If their were two airlines:

Airline 1: bans all stupid containers (idiot packrat-travellers not accepted)

Airline 2: permits all of the stupid containers but makes everybody wait to have all of their stupid containers inspected

I would buy my tickets from the Airline 1, thank you very much! and have a safe flight home.

Why do people need their own bottled water or their own juice?? They serve you on the plane!

Even with Airline #1 that bans it all, they are still checking every peice of luggage for banned items. The wait in the line will be the same for both. Not to mention full body cavity search.

[Charles Anthony]

If their were two airlines:

Airline 1: bans all stupid containers (idiot packrat-travellers not accepted)

Airline 2: permits all of the stupid containers but makes everybody wait to have all of their stupid containers inspected

I would buy my tickets from the Airline 1, thank you very much! and have a safe flight home.

Even with Airline #1 that bans it all, they are still checking every peice of luggage for banned items. The wait in the line will be the same for both. Not to mention full body cavity search.

No.

If Airline 1 finds a bottle in your luggage it is thrown out. They would not bother opening it to see what is inside. Everybody would know that. Nobody would bring containers. The line would be faster.

[Wilber]

Hizbullah's military wing doesn't operate outside of Lebanon.

Not often but how about the bombing of the Israeli Embassy and a Jewish community center in Argentina around ten years ago?

[Black Dog]

Not often but how about the bombing of the Israeli Embassy and a Jewish community center in Argentina around ten years ago?

My understanding was that was Islamic Jihad's handiwork. But point taken. Even so, I would argue that Hizbullah is a bit more goal-oriented than Al Qaeda and its imitaitors who seem to favour spreading the terror around instead of targeting specific groups.

[mcqueen625]

This is a good blog and reply, he says it better than I could.

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/

The religion of peace

The news coming in of the plot to blow up UK flights in mid-air is devastating. This is a salutary and important reminder that the "war on terror" is not a figment of the imagination of the Bush-Blair axis but a reality. Congratulations to the police and security services for intercepting the terrorists.

Despite the bleating of the BBC, the news agencies and their fellow travellers, there are some evil bastards out there and they aim to kill US – that is you and me, men women and children, without discrimination and without a shred of remorse.

Apparently, as many as ten British Airway flights from the UK to the United States had been targeted and the chilling thing is that liquid chemical explosives were to be used, defying normal airport security measures.

The plan was, we are told, was to blow the aircraft up over deep water so that there would be no wreckage or evidence, creating maximum fear, uncertainty and confusion, with the aim of bringing the air transportation system to a complete halt.

This is your enemy people, and he lives in our midst. But he takes his solace, his funding and justification from events in Iraq, in Palestine and in southern Lebanon. These are the people, members of the "religion of peace", who regard death as a commodity, to be exploited, people who have no morals, no scruples and no mercy. And there is only one thing you can do with people like this – you root them out and, where necessary, kill them.

Agreed, but I would take it a step further, because you cannot fight this type of terrorist with our present system of placing great emphasis on the rights of the criminals or in this case the terrorists. We need to become as ruthless as they are, by forgeting about lawyers and their penchant of tying things up in court procedings forever, and by skipping right to the punishment phase. If these people are found to be involved in any plot to kill innocent civilians, they should immediately be executed. These clowns are using our justice system against us by demanding their rights, and maybe it is time that those rights are taken away.

Time in jail for these people means another chance to get out and carry through with their terror plots. For those Canadian's in Montreal who think they are immune from a terror attack, I hope they wake up before it is too late. These plots are not being threatened and carried out by Jews, they are being carried out by radical extremist's of the Muslim Faith, yet the bleeding-hearts of Montreal carry out demonstrations in support of terrorist organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah. Wake up Montreal!

[BubberMiley]

If these people are found to be involved in any plot to kill innocent civilians, they should immediately be executed. These clowns are using our justice system against us by demanding their rights, and maybe it is time that those rights are taken away.

Where have you been the last five years? Their rights were taken away a long time ago. It doesn't matter that they're British citizens; they're on a one-way trip to a secret prison.

[jbg]

The one thing I absolutely hate about all this going on is the people who use the wars against terrorism as an excuse to go out and murder innocent people.

Are you saying that Israel, the US, UK and Canada should do nothing since some innocents that the terrorists hide behind might die?

[BubberMiley]

Are you saying that Israel, the US, UK and Canada should do nothing since some innocents that the terrorists hide behind might die?

Why not start bombing London neighbourhoods then? They're bound to get a few.

[Wilber]

Are you saying that Israel, the US, UK and Canada should do nothing since some innocents that the terrorists hide behind might die?

Why not start bombing London neighbourhoods then? They're bound to get a few.

No need, the British government is doing their job in tracking these people down, not giving them sanctuary.

[jbg]

No need, the British government is doing their job in tracking these people down, not giving them sanctuary.

The British government did a less than stellar job ensuring that those allowed in would be citizens they'd want to have.

[Wilber]

No need, the British government is doing their job in tracking these people down, not giving them sanctuary.

The British government did a less than stellar job ensuring that those allowed in would be citizens they'd want to have.

They are not unique in that respect.

[BubberMiley]

No need, the British government is doing their job in tracking these people down, not giving them sanctuary.

Actually, the Pakistan government is the one that tracked them down. Maybe Israel could learn from them to do a better job at intelligence and not have to go bomb children.

[Wilber]

No need, the British government is doing their job in tracking these people down, not giving them sanctuary.

Actually, the Pakistan government is the one that tracked them down. Maybe Israel could learn from them to do a better job at intelligence and not have to go bomb children.

Why haven't they found Osama?

[jdobbin]

Why haven't they found Osama?

That's the question that Bush should be asked every day.

Are we safer than September 11? If not, why not? Wasn't the mission to apprehend Osama bin Laden?

[jbg]

No need, the British government is doing their job in tracking these people down, not giving them sanctuary.

Actually, the Pakistan government is the one that tracked them down. Maybe Israel could learn from them to do a better job at intelligence and not have to go bomb children.

That's a pointless remark. The "Pakistani government", such as it is, receives "information" from one tribe ratting out another. Sometimes, such as this time, you get lucky.

Israel's intelligence is pretty good. When it comes to attacking, they're attacking people who take shelter among civilians. Thus the bombed children. It is not fair to compare the two situations.

[Black Dog]

The news coming in of the plot to blow up UK flights in mid-air is devastating. This is a salutary and important reminder that the "war on terror" is not a figment of the imagination of the Bush-Blair axis but a reality.

Actually, it's a reminder that the militarist angle of the war on terror has been overplayed, leaving the people on the real front lines-police, intelligence services-with a much harder job.

Despite the bleating of the BBC, the news agencies and their fellow travellers, there are some evil bastards out there and they aim to kill US – that is you and me, men women and children, without discrimination and without a shred of remorse.

No one has ever denied it. The author of this piece is making shit up.

This is your enemy people, and he lives in our midst. But he takes his solace, his funding and justification from events in Iraq, in Palestine and in southern Lebanon. These are the people, members of the "religion of peace", who regard death as a commodity, to be exploited, people who have no morals, no scruples and no mercy. And there is only one thing you can do with people like this – you root them out and, where necessary, kill them.

Of course, the authour glosses over the fact that "events in Iraq, in Palestine and in southern Lebanon" are part of the "war on terror" (he forgets about Afghanistan) and were aimed at reducing terrorism. So, if, as the authour concedes, the plotters (and others like them) get their inspiration from the "war on terror," is that not an admission that the "war on terror" as it has been fought, is a failure?

Six Lessons

Second, the conspiracy—if it resembles the London bombings of last summer—will likely be home-grown, another of the growing jihad "fashion" in Europe that comprises the new street gangs of this world. It is not a religious movement, it is not fundamentalism. These are thin veneers. It is at root sheer violence undertaken by young men resentful of many things (not least the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and Lebanon) and ready to kill in return. Under different cirucmstances, it could be Tamils or Red Brigades or Michigan Militiamen, and has been.

[Liam]

Agreed, but I would take it a step further, because you cannot fight this type of terrorist with our present system of placing great emphasis on the rights of the criminals or in this case the terrorists. We need to become as ruthless as they are, by forgeting about lawyers and their penchant of tying things up in court procedings forever, and by skipping right to the punishment phase. If these people are found to be involved in any plot to kill innocent civilians, they should immediately be executed. These clowns are using our justice system against us by demanding their rights, and maybe it is time that those rights are taken away.

Time in jail for these people means another chance to get out and carry through with their terror plots. For those Canadian's in Montreal who think they are immune from a terror attack, I hope they wake up before it is too late. These plots are not being threatened and carried out by Jews, they are being carried out by radical extremist's of the Muslim Faith, yet the bleeding-hearts of Montreal carry out demonstrations in support of terrorist organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah. Wake up Montreal!

While I agree that anyone who supports Hamas, et. al. needs to wake up, I disagree that we as a society need to be as ruthless as the terrorists. We need to be smarter and craftier than the terrorists, and we need to be ruthless when one is convicted of terrorism, but by becoming savages we reduce ourselves to their level.

You commit a terrible mistake by saying that we are placing greater emphasis on the "rights of criminals [and terrorists]." Maybe the Canadian judicial system does that (though I doubt it does), but I can tell you as an attorney that the US system gives *the accused* certain civil rights. People in the US are presumed innocent till proven guilty and I assume it's the same in Canada. Should we suspend the rights of the innocent merely because they have been accused? how about because they are suspects? While it is terrifying that these people live among us and wish us harm, we cannot lose sight of the fact that innocent people may be caught up in some of the criminal sweeps that intend to stop these savages. Would our society, would our way of life, would our "freedom" (what Bush so often says they hate most about us) really be worth saving if we, too, became savages? Heck, if we gave up due process of law, would we even have freedom??

Immediate execution was (and in some cases is still) practiced in the Soviet Union, in Maoist China, in Iran, in North Korea. I do not think the US and Canada and Britain should model its judicial systems on those states'. The western appeals system protects the innocent from wrongful conviction and protects the non-accused in that it forces government to exercise restraint in its investigation and prosecution of criminal matters. Eliminating the appeals process, even for the most evil of criminals, puts all of us in a state of permanent legal jeopardy. We would all be one accusation away from the guillotine. How would we be safer if we had no civil rights?

Don't misunderstand me, I am fully in favor of waging the war against terrorist and stopping them. I am fully in favor of using every legal means available to the government in the pursuit of these people. I am 100% in favor of trying them and 100% in favor of executing the guilty, but only in accordance with the judicial restraint of a civilized, law-based society. Ruthlessness and savagery in punishment of the guilty is one thing, but ruthlessness and savagery in pursuit of suspects is not a winning strategy for us and only serves to throw in the trash bin the one thing our leaders tell us the terrorists hate about us, freedom.

[BubberMiley]

The "Pakistani government", such as it is, receives "information" from one tribe ratting out another. Sometimes, such as this time, you get lucky.

Am I to assume from your use of quotation marks and condescending terms like "tribe" that this "information," which allowed authorities to sweep in and capture 24 alleged would-be terrorists, is somehow more random and less scientific than information gathered by Israeli intelligence, which allows to sweep in and blow up neighbourhoods from 30 miles away?

[Wilber]

Why haven't they found Osama?

That's the question that Bush should be asked every day.

Are we safer than September 11? If not, why not? Wasn't the mission to apprehend Osama bin Laden?

Part of the mission in Afghanistan still is, unfortunately Bush let himself get sidetracked in Iraq. Are we safer from the likes of Al Qaeda since 9/11? Yes I think so. Is our little world a safer place? Maybe not but it never was as safe as we let ourselves believe.

[jdobbin]

Part of the mission in Afghanistan still is, unfortunately Bush let himself get sidetracked in Iraq. Are we safer from the likes of Al Qaeda since 9/11? Yes I think so. Is our little world a safer place? Maybe not but it never was as safe as we let ourselves believe.

Most military and security experts say the world is not more secure and in fact is less secure. Many of the world's terrorists are being trained now in Pakistan, a U.S. ally. And this is where Osama bin Laden is supposed to be hiding.

[jbg]

Part of the mission in Afghanistan still is, unfortunately Bush let himself get sidetracked in Iraq. Are we safer from the likes of Al Qaeda since 9/11? Yes I think so. Is our little world a safer place? Maybe not but it never was as safe as we let ourselves believe.

Better to have the best jihadis tied up fighting us in Iraq and Afghanistan, leaving the less effective ones to fail in attack attempts elsewhere.