Attack on Jewish Center

[Guest Warwick Green]

When it is perecived by some that Israel is doing something "wrong" the frequency of anti-Semitic incidents occurs. We might also expect a copycat.

At least 6 women shot, 1 fatally, at Seattle Jewish centre; suspect arrested

SEATTLE (AP) - A man walked into a Jewish organization in this northwestern U.S. city and opened fire, killing one woman and injuring at least five others before he was arrested, officials said.

The gunman, who employees said claimed to be a Muslim angry at Israel, forced his way through the security door Friday afternoon at the Jewish Federation after an employee had punched in her security code, said Marla Meislin-Dietrich, a co-worker who was not at the building at the time.

Staff members said they overheard him saying "'I am a Muslim American, angry at Israel,' before opening fire on everyone," Meislin-Dietrich said. "He was randomly shooting at everyone."

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/st...097&k=62175

[jdobbin]

When it is perecived by some that Israel is doing something "wrong" the frequency of anti-Semitic incidents occurs. We might also expect a copycat.

It always scares me when stuff like this happens. Soft targets have very little protection. I live close to synagogues and a large Jewish community campus. Everyone is in danger from a determined attacker.

[sharkman]

When it is perecived by some that Israel is doing something "wrong" the frequency of anti-Semitic incidents occurs. We might also expect a copycat.

It always scares me when stuff like this happens. Soft targets have very little protection. I live close to synagogues and a large Jewish community campus. Everyone is in danger from a determined attacker.

I'm really surprised at the lack of response on this particular thread. I can't help but wonder what the response would be if it had been a crazy Jew who stepped into a building of Arabs and opened fire.

At any rate, once again it was interesting to see the true colours of the media who at first were super conservative(imagine!) cautious about reporting whether this nutbar was a Muslim who hated Jews, when his announcement upon entering the building for all to hear removed any doubt. Except for said media.

[Technocrat]

When it is perecived by some that Israel is doing something "wrong" the frequency of anti-Semitic incidents occurs. We might also expect a copycat.

It always scares me when stuff like this happens. Soft targets have very little protection. I live close to synagogues and a large Jewish community campus. Everyone is in danger from a determined attacker.

I'm really surprised at the lack of response on this particular thread. I can't help but wonder what the response would be if it had been a crazy Jew who stepped into a building of Arabs and opened fire.

At any rate, once again it was interesting to see the true colours of the media who at first were super conservative(imagine!) cautious about reporting whether this nutbar was a Muslim who hated Jews, when his announcement upon entering the building for all to hear removed any doubt. Except for said media.

The reason why there is not a huge response to this thread is that not alot of people view it compared to say... the federal politics forum.

It makes sense that the media held out to make sure they got their facts straight. This is definitely not the kind of story you want to screw up.

That said... it saddens me when blind hate on both sides destroys the lives of the innocent.

[Michael Hardner]

I'm really surprised at the lack of response on this particular thread. I can't help but wonder what the response would be if it had been a crazy Jew who stepped into a building of Arabs and opened fire.

At any rate, once again it was interesting to see the true colours of the media who at first were super conservative(imagine!) cautious about reporting whether this nutbar was a Muslim who hated Jews, when his announcement upon entering the building for all to hear removed any doubt. Except for said media.

I'm not sure what kind of response you're looking for. It seems that this was a hate crime, an onerous thing. If one personally feels outrage at these kind of crimes, then one can post a lament, an emotional outcry - but beyond that what can one say ?

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear sharkman,

I'm really surprised at the lack of response on this particular thread. I can't help but wonder what the response would be if it had been a crazy Jew who stepped into a building of Arabs and opened fire.

I tend to agree with Mr. Hardner on this one...a lone whackjob doesn't really make me want to debate his motivations. Mind you, for some reason, a group of them will...

[Charles Anthony]

I'm really surprised at the lack of response on this particular thread.

Let me point this out: the first account of the article (in fact, the only account to provide specific details) was from a person who was not there by her own admission! What sort of response should there be from a fourth-party perspective??? Let us interview and get commentary from more people who were not there either.

Interestingly, the article does not identify the name of this "Jewish organization in this northwestern U.S. city" for anybody reading this forum to verify nor to get more details.

I can't help but wonder what the response would be if it had been a crazy Jew who stepped into a building of Arabs and opened fire.

You tell us.

At any rate, once again it was interesting to see the true colours of the media who at first were super conservative(imagine!) cautious about reporting whether this nutbar was a Muslim who hated Jews,

You tell us. You tell us what your are suggesting. I think there is a lot more bait out there than many people realize.

when his announcement upon entering the building for all to hear removed any doubt. Except for said media.

You tell us. You tell us what your are suggesting about the media slant. I will not put words in your mouth.

Remember, this is the same media outlet that ran with a story about nutbar muslim legislation against Jews in Iran.

[Black Dog]

Shooting suspect recently converted to Christianity

Naveed Haq, now widely portrayed as a Muslim American so angry at Israel that he shot up a Jewish charity in Seattle, had recently converted to Christianity.

His conversion is perhaps the most startling contradiction in a puzzling life.

He had a degree in electrical engineering and was the son of a successful engineer. But he couldn't hold a job and recently worked as a security guard and retail clerk in the Seattle area.

His father was a founding member of the Islamic center here. But the son was rarely seen at a local mosque for more than 10 years.

Haq, 30, told a ministry leader that he saw too much anger in Islam and wanted to find a new beginning in Christianity. He converted to Christianity, but, as with many other endeavors in his life, drifted away from the faith.

Acquaintances said he never seemed to be the fanatic religious extremist he played out on Friday. Instead some think his anger was really the result of problems in his personal and professional life.

[Rue]

There is a fine line between this lone "whack job" and people like some of our posters who use discussions as to Israel as a pretense to hate all Jews. This man may have been mentally ill, but because his hatred was openly encouraged and considered understandable and acceptable in his community, no one saw any harm with it as long as he did not act it out. The point is if someone in his community and told him his hatred was unacceptable to start with and not considered the norm, he might have been helped earlier. Where was his family? Were was his community. More to the point, he was not psychotic at the time of his attack, he knew exactly what he was doing and knew it was wrong. His being depressed because he could not find a job and failed out of dental school and his self-loathing are the issue. Nod oubt his lawyers will try argue his anti-semitism is justified and an excuse to kill as do some posters on this web site.

[Black Dog]

There is a fine line between this lone "whack job" and people like some of our posters who use discussions as to Israel as a pretense to hate all Jews.

Like who?

This man may have been mentally ill, but because his hatred was openly encouraged and considered understandable and acceptable in his community, no one saw any harm with it as long as he did not act it out. The point is if someone in his community and told him his hatred was unacceptable to start with and not considered the norm, he might have been helped earlier. Where was his family? Were was his community.

What community? If you're talking about the Muslim community, it doesn't seem like he took part in it:

At the Islamic Center of Tri-Cities, a senior member and family friend, Muhammad Kaleem Ullah, said that Haq stopped attending regularly after he graduated from Richland High School in 1994.

More to the point, he was not psychotic at the time of his attack, he knew exactly what he was doing and knew it was wrong.

And just what is Dr. Rue's diagnosis based on?

His being depressed because he could not find a job and failed out of dental school and his self-loathing are the issue. Nod oubt his lawyers will try argue his anti-semitism is justified and an excuse to kill as do some posters on this web site.

Or they'll argue something along the lines of him being crazy.

[Leafless]

Dear sharkman,

I'm really surprised at the lack of response on this particular thread. I can't help but wonder what the response would be if it had been a crazy Jew who stepped into a building of Arabs and opened fire.

I tend to agree with Mr. Hardner on this one...a lone whackjob doesn't really make me want to debate his motivations. Mind you, for some reason, a group of them will...

And I disagree with you.

Imported extreme 'Arab religious hate' in the U.S. and Canada is a relatively new phenomenon.

It's clear that in fact many Arabs Muzlim Arabs now openly support banned terrorist organizations like Hezbollah in the U.S. and Canada.

This raises a very complex issue and that is, what exactlly do we do about it?

[Michael Hardner]

It's clear that in fact many Arabs Muzlim Arabs now openly support banned terrorist organizations like Hezbollah in the U.S. and Canada.

This raises a very complex issue and that is, what exactlly do we do about it?

Don't say that it's clear - prove it.

What do we do about it ? What we already do: engage in law enforcement and intelligence projects to root it out.

What else do you propose ?

[Leafless]

It's clear that in fact many Arabs Muzlim Arabs now openly support banned terrorist organizations like Hezbollah in the U.S. and Canada.

This raises a very complex issue and that is, what exactlly do we do about it?

Don't say that it's clear - prove it.

What do we do about it ? What we already do: engage in law enforcement and intelligence projects to root it out.

What else do you propose ?

Reports clearly identify Canada as a major base for terrorist fundraising activities. While the Anti-Terrorism Act itself operates as a deterrent to those who might have supported banned organizations and a number of suspect organizations have been identified, the lack of successful prosecutions under the Act, and the limited action on the part of Canadian officials to date, raises great concerns that suspect organizations continue to operate here, using such designations as charities as cover. There are serious grounds to believe that at least one banned organization in Canada continues to operate with a different name but at the same address. Increased funding to government bodies such as the Revenue Canada - Charities branch is crucial if Canada is to effectively address this problem. In particular, it is ourrecommendation that a special investigative team be formed which would develop the expertise necessary to track suspect organizations.

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:oCg13r...=clnk&cd=21

http://www.conservativejoe.com/

It is clear Arab Muzlims support terrorist organizations. Our Canadian government is proving it.

And what do I propose?

Changes in our Constitution.

Banning all immigration originating from Muslim countries along with the elimination of dual citizenships.

Existing Arab Muzlims in Canada would be required to take an oath of allegiance to Canada including denouncing Muzlim terrorist organizations in written form or face deportation if unwilling to do so.

[Rue]

There is a fine line between this lone "whack job" and people like some of our posters who use discussions as to Israel as a pretense to hate all Jews.

Like who?

This man may have been mentally ill, but because his hatred was openly encouraged and considered understandable and acceptable in his community, no one saw any harm with it as long as he did not act it out. The point is if someone in his community and told him his hatred was unacceptable to start with and not considered the norm, he might have been helped earlier. Where was his family? Were was his community.

What community? If you're talking about the Muslim community, it doesn't seem like he took part in it:

At the Islamic Center of Tri-Cities, a senior member and family friend, Muhammad Kaleem Ullah, said that Haq stopped attending regularly after he graduated from Richland High School in 1994.

More to the point, he was not psychotic at the time of his attack, he knew exactly what he was doing and knew it was wrong.[/quote

And just what is Dr. Rue's diagnosis based on?

His being depressed because he could not find a job and failed out of dental school and his self-loathing are the issue. Nod oubt his lawyers will try argue his anti-semitism is justified and an excuse to kill as do some posters on this web site.

Or they'll argue something along the lines of him being crazy.

Dr. Rue as you point out is a lawyer with a Master's Degree in Forensic Psychology and 3 years post graduate clinical training in profiling. Have any more questions? And while we are at it, since you want to get snide and personal Black Dog, I base my comments on this individual's statements which clearly indicated he knew what he was doing, pre-meditated it, and knew it was wrong but did it anyways.

Then again I can see why you would want to try defend him. It woul;d be consistent with your other positions as to terrorism and violence.

[Black Dog]

Dr. Rue as you point out is a lawyer with a Master's Degree in Forensic Psychology and 3 years post graduate clinical training in profiling. Have any more questions?

A lawyer and a shrink. How do you have so much time to spend on internet forums? Sorry, but your claims of credentials are worthless here.

And while we are at it, since you want to get snide and personal Black Dog, I base my comments on this individual's statements which clearly indicated he knew what he was doing, pre-meditated it, and knew it was wrong but did it anyways.

All that from a news clipping? If you're a lawyer, I feel sorry for your clients.

Then again I can see why you would want to try defend him. It woul;d be consistent with your other positions as to terrorism and violence.

How many times do you want to play this game? Reported to moderator.

[Rue]

Dr. Rue as you point out is a lawyer with a Master's Degree in Forensic Psychology and 3 years post graduate clinical training in profiling. Have any more questions?

A lawyer and a shrink. How do you have so much time to spend on internet forums? Sorry, but your claims of credentials are worthless here.

And while we are at it, since you want to get snide and personal Black Dog, I base my comments on this individual's statements which clearly indicated he knew what he was doing, pre-meditated it, and knew it was wrong but did it anyways.

All that from a news clipping? If you're a lawyer, I feel sorry for your clients.

Then again I can see why you would want to try defend him. It woul;d be consistent with your other positions as to terrorism and violence.

How many times do you want to play this game? Reported to moderator.

You asked me what my credentials are, and when I told you, you then get snide and personal.

As for my last comment that you reported to the moderator, I stand by that comment. Your positions on this post have been consistent with trying to rationalize anger against Israel. That is what I was getting at. If you want to run to the moderator every time I respond, go ahead. The differene between us is I don't run to the moderator when you deliberately try to get personal with me. That is the major difference between us.

[Black Dog]

You asked me what my credentials are, and when I told you, you then get snide and personal.

Actually, I didn't ask for your credentials, but was commenting on the absurdity of attempting to diagnose someone's state of mind base don comments reported in a newpaper clipping. Your attempt to provide unverifiable credentials just took things to comic territory.

As for my last comment that you reported to the moderator, I stand by that comment. Your positions on this post have been consistent with trying to rationalize anger against Israel. That is what I was getting at. If you want to run to the moderator every time I respond, go ahead. The differene between us is I don't run to the moderator when you deliberately try to get personal with me.

If you make a plea to the authority of your (again, unverifiable) credentials, don't be surprised taht it comes back to you. The majority of the tiome, I play the ball and keep my arguments to the facts. You on the other hand, are incapable of making an argument without including snide insinuations of anti-semetism, of support for terrorism etc etc. If you can't separate the argument from the person making it, something you consistently fail to do, you have no business here.

[Rue]

"And just what is Dr. Rue's diagnosis based on?"

The above is a direct quote of Black Dog's. It necessarily calls on me to defend my qualifications and turned this series of posts into a personal attack on me which called for my responses.

If Black Dog does not want me to bring up my credentials he should not initiate such dialogue by making such comments which are clearly personal and sarcastic.

That said my diagnosis is based on the same thing Black Dog's positions are based on.