The danger of the Federal Liberals/NDP and provincial BC NDP who adopted UNDRIP

[blackbird]

UNDRIP, the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People, is a dangerous document that seems to give aboriginals unlimited power of the country.

Why would any politician in their right mind pass something like that?

That is something I have never been able to understand.

In B.C. following the adoption by the B.C. NDP government of UNDRIP, the BC NDP passed a law abbreviated DRIPA, a Declaration on the Rights of the Indigenous Peoples Act.  It appears the BC NDP and other MLAs never really investigated with legal experts as to what the result of this would be.  Can you believe that?  MLAs and government of our province just handed massive powers over to 5% of the population, the aboriginals without even doing a serious study on the consequences of such a law.

Now a court has in B.C. has ruled that a large piece of the city of Richmond, occupied by private property owners and businesses, actually belongs to a native band on Vancouver Island called the Cowichan Band because some of their ancestors travelled over to that part of Richmond seasonally to stay there and fish for a while.  This may have happened far back in history.  But these ancestors didn't stay there and live.  They came from Vancouver Island.

Then in another court case in northwest B.C. a court ruled that a native band has jurisdiction of an area of land that a mining company is operating on.  This has created great uncertainty for land ownership and investment in B.C.

The B.C. NDP leader, Premier Eby, seems in no hurry to rectify this problem.  Who knows what he has up his sleeve.  Negotiations between FNs in BC and the provincial government have been kept largely secret for years.   Apparently the NDP believe that the people of B.C. have no right to know what is going on.

This whole mentality of the Liberals, NDP and left generally in Canada is leading us down a dangerous path, and we don't know where this is leading.  The ideology of these parties seems to be that non-native Canadians are all colonials who have no rights to own land or develop natural resource industries without FN approval.  This is a disaster in the making and seems to be coming to pass in a real way.

Edited December 21, 2025 by blackbird

[John Stone]

........... yeah, could really throw a wrench into an individual trying to get a mortgage on land that they could never own  at the least,  disputed. 

Development? OMG

Shoot-in-foot much? 

UNDRIP was a U.N. RESOLUTION passed by the General Assembly there was no weight behind it  - why would Canada EVER adopt such an agreement - beyond me. 

 The government of Stephen Harper adopted it in 2010 with the proviso that it was a statement of aspirations but not legally binding. The same position was taken by the United States, Australia, and New Zealand.

Liberalism at it's best (worst)

FUBAR .........

 

 

 

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, John Stone said:

The government of Stephen Harper adopted it in 2010 with the proviso that it was a statement of aspirations but not legally binding.

Isn't that still the legal state of affairs in Canada? I suspect federal law will trump provincial law, as in the case of BCs DRIPA. I doubt BC will invoke the Notwithstanding Clause in the event the SCC rules against the case over Richmond.

It's hard to get overly excited over things that will still take a couple of generations to sort out.

[herbie]

Oh FFS how many threads you gonna start on the same f*cking subject?
Whenever anyone counters your fearmongering claims or proves them wrong, you just start another and continually dismiss any acknowledgement that the Natives have any case whatsoever.

Edited December 21, 2025 by herbie

[eyeball]

blackbird would have made a great emissary to the first nations...'here, have some blankets'.

[Zeitgeist]

Unfortunately the British Columbians are the flakiest people in Canada.  They did this to themselves.  I don’t think they’ll figure out what a grave they’ve dug for themselves and BC’s economy, but now they’re in it.

[eyeball]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

Unfortunately the British Columbians are the flakiest people in Canada.  They did this to themselves.  I don’t think they’ll figure out what a grave they’ve dug for themselves and BC’s economy, but now they’re in it.

One judge did this. I doubt hers will be the final word on the matter.

That said if it slows down the development of, let's say, a pipeline and it's tidewater port,  then I guess there's a silver lining to it - I doubt it'll be permanent though.

[suds]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

One judge did this.

This is unbelievable to say the least. I don't blame the Judge. One silly government did this.

[eyeball]

39 minutes ago, suds said:

This is unbelievable to say the least. I don't blame the Judge. One silly government did this.

You could blame England too I suppose. They left an awful lot of loose ends around.

Edited December 22, 2025 by eyeball

[Zeitgeist]

37 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You could blame England too I suppose. They left an awful lot of loose ends around.

The BC Dippers adopted UNDRIP like complete twits. Now their courts are honouring that.  Go figure.

Edited December 22, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[blackbird]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Unfortunately the British Columbians are the flakiest people in Canada.  They did this to themselves.  I don’t think they’ll figure out what a grave they’ve dug for themselves and BC’s economy, but now they’re in it.

That's 40% of British Columbians that did this to us, the 40% that voted the NDP in.  The BC Liberals were fairly bad as well but the biggest problem has been the BC NDP the last nine years.  B.C. has attracted a large number of tree huggers, environmentalists, and NDP losers the last few decades.  They come here because of the climate and scenery, but they have caused the loss of a lot of forestry jobs because of their demands to save old growth forests.  The governments in Victoria have caved in to this extreme forest preservation ideology, especially the BC NDP.  But the BC NDP has really given in to the natives and given away the house literally.

[John Stone]

15 hours ago, eyeball said:

Isn't that still the legal state of affairs in Canada? I suspect federal law will trump provincial law, as in the case of BCs DRIPA. I doubt BC will invoke the Notwithstanding Clause in the event the SCC rules against the case over Richmond.

It's hard to get overly excited over things that will still take a couple of generations to sort out.

DRIPA has had and will have significant consequences in Canada, particular in B.C. (Crown Land). Basically, without getting into the weeds DRIPA will increasingly lead to how laws are interpreted and applied - def all provincial laws will be interpreted with DRIPA as a touch stone. Def deepen social division and absolutely undermines democratic accountability. Understandably, business and investors are concerned(???). It is like water running over a smooth cement floor - where it goes and the consequences are unknown.

RE: "It's hard to get overly excited over things that will still take a couple of generations to sort out."

I don't share your complacency - it will be exploited ruthlessly - and  why wouldn't it be? 

They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions  - I think that describes Justine Trudeau here and his father with the Notwithstanding clause. 

[eyeball]

6 hours ago, John Stone said:

Def deepen social division and absolutely undermines democratic accountability. Understandably, business and investors are concerned(???). It is like water running over a smooth cement floor - where it goes and the consequences are unknown.

RE: "It's hard to get overly excited over things that will still take a couple of generations to sort out."

I don't share your complacency - it will be exploited ruthlessly - and  why wouldn't it be? 

I don't share your fear about being ruthlessly exploited. Why should I be? I've lived 25 feet away from treaty lands for decades now. The folks next door aren't exploiting me in the least.

The water has been running across the floor since before Confederation, we, including and especially First Nations, have been dealing with the consequences of that all along and it's a process that will continue to unfold into the future, likely as I said for a good couple of generations.

What exactly are you imagining will happen to you? Is your life being threatened or something? I mean, we still outnumber First Nations by almost 40 to 1 right?  

I'm sorry you said something about ruthless exploitation?  The only exploiters I see in my region are Big Timber and Big Fish-Farms...and what I mean by Big is like the Big in Big Pharma.  There's always been something Big exploiting everyone around here, since before Confederation even. These are the things that really divide us and undermine democratic accountability.  I'm way more concerned about business investors, especially the Big ones.   

[herbie]

57 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I don't share your fear about being ruthlessly exploited. Why should I be? I've lived 25 feet away from treaty lands for decades now. The folks next door aren't exploiting me in the least.

True nuff. The fear mongering seems exclusive to those imagining some wino they saw panhandling for change downtown is gathering a group of similar fellows to come rob them of the 18th floor concrete cubicle they call a home.
You know, those who think they have some personal gain in the resources of a chunk of land they've never head of, been to, or could find on a map.

You know I'm of half a mind to say fck you to the money grubbing mortgage lenders and insurance ripoffs and will my property to the local Band office. Too much trouble to sell it and move elsewhere beforehand

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

You know I'm of half a mind to say fck you to the money grubbing mortgage lenders and insurance ripoffs and will my property to the local Band office. Too much trouble to sell it and move elsewhere beforehand

I won't be surprised if the powers that be do let things go to the point the government is forced to buy property from people who can't sell or bail out banks that can't foreclose on the mortgage.

It'll be good for the environment though. If nothing moves nothing gets hurt - let the healing begin.

And the more that conservatives double down on whining the longer the process will take. LMAO!

[herbie]

Oh of course that's not the fault of the mortgagers and insurers. Of course the govt shouldn't force them or step in with alternatives. That would be a socialist attempt to shift blame from the people the land was taken from.

Nah we must accept the insurer says shit like you're 50 feet to far from the firehall, we don't insure homes more than 50 years old, tou have a firelace, wood heat, etc. The bank sex you can't get a mortgage without the insurance. Not much of a strext for them to decree 'well some people say the natives may possibly take your property 20 years from now, if they win their case 100% and go back on their promises too, so we're gonna refuse your mortgage/insurance today.
Oh that's just fine. They're companies, it's all the Indians fault.

How did things go around here? People kept their home and lot. They didn't automatically get to renew their lease when Crown land got turned over. They had to deal with the Band and sometimes the Band said no to a lease. A resort kept the residence and immediate land. The Band took back the lease lot with all the campsites, cabins and docks. Made their own resort, just like Donald Trump or any other white developer would've.

[eyeball]

There's going to be a little replacement along with some displacement for sure.

Treaties still appears to be one of the biggest and so far fairest and squarest economic drivers where  I live.  There's divisions within first nations between their fish farmers and wild fishermen. The collusion that's seemingly always existed between Big Farma and prov/fed governments probably doesn't help. It certainly didn't help non-native fishermen.

Don't worry about the banks, they'll still get theirs.

Edited December 23, 2025 by eyeball

[John Stone]

18 hours ago, eyeball said:

I don't share your fear about being ruthlessly exploited. Why should I be? I've lived 25 feet away from treaty lands for decades now. The folks next door aren't exploiting me in the least.

The water has been running across the floor since before Confederation, we, including and especially First Nations, have been dealing with the consequences of that all along and it's a process that will continue to unfold into the future, likely as I said for a good couple of generations.

What exactly are you imagining will happen to you? Is your life being threatened or something? I mean, we still outnumber First Nations by almost 40 to 1 right?  

I'm sorry you said something about ruthless exploitation?  The only exploiters I see in my region are Big Timber and Big Fish-Farms...and what I mean by Big is like the Big in Big Pharma.  There's always been something Big exploiting everyone around here, since before Confederation even. These are the things that really divide us and undermine democratic accountability.  I'm way more concerned about business investors, especially the Big ones.   

 

When the B.C. government adopted (DRIPA) into law in 2019, it went out of its way to say, repeatedly and explicitly, that it should not be used by a future court one day to strike down other provincial laws.

At that time there was much confusion on the issue. New Democrats admitted they would not be able to control what judges might do when a First Nation used DRIPA as a tool to challenge other laws in court.

Earlier this month, the BC Court of Appeal last week struck down the Mineral Tenures Act, because it said a lack of consultation and accommodation with First Nations over a new online mineral claims-staking system violated DRIPA.

New Democrats hailed themselves as “the leader in the world” on Indigenous rights when they  ( BC NDP government) passed the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous  Peoples Act (DRIPA) in 2019. OMG!

There was also debate over whether DRIPA would impact private property rights—perhaps the hottest topic of 2025 after the courts ruled Aboriginal title sits above private property rights in the Cowichan Nation’s victory over lands in Richmond

Note: Aboriginal title sits  (unceded land) ABOVE private property rights – 95 percent of B.C. is crown land, ie – unceded.

Edited December 23, 2025 by John Stone

[blackbird]

21 hours ago, eyeball said:

The only exploiters I see in my region are Big Timber and Big Fish-Farms...and what I mean by Big is like the Big in Big Pharma.  There's always been something Big exploiting everyone around here, since before Confederation even. These are the things that really divide us and undermine democratic accountability.  I'm way more concerned about business investors, especially the Big ones. 

You do sound more like a commie.  Why would anybody be against the corporations that create wealth and good-paying jobs??  The forestry companies for example have provided good-paying jobs in towns around B.C. all along and this made it possible for people to own homes, buy cars and trucks, RVs, and boats.  That's why we have had sawmills and pulp mills and lots of good jobs.  So quit whining about Big Pharma, Big Timber, Big fish farms... blah blah.  What's wrong with a big company anyway???  They certainly create more wealth and more good jobs than a small tiny company like Tim's coffee shop or McDs that now employs mostly foreign workers on minimum wage or near to it wages.  Nobody can buy a home or support a family on that.  It's the BIG Big companies that produce good jobs.  We need big companies that pay around $30 an hour or more and have all the benefits.  Small companies can't do it.

That is, until the BC NDP was elected and started preserving more forests, bring in more regulations, and costs, and making it more difficult for companies to get logs.  Now many mills have shut down.  Thank your good commie friends, the BC NDP and yourself who supports the commie marxists.

Edited December 23, 2025 by blackbird

[John Stone]

7 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You do sound more like a commie.  Why would anybody be against the corporations that create wealth and good-paying jobs.  The forestry companies for example have provided good-paying jobs in town around B.C. all along and this made it possible for people to own homes, buy cars and trucks, RVs, and boats.  That's why we have had sawmills and pulp mills and lots of good jobs.  So quit whining about Big Pharma, Big Timber, Big fish farms... blah blah.  What's wrong with a big company anyway???  They certainly create more wealth and more good jobs than a small tiny company like Tim's coffee shop or McDs that now employs mostly foreign workers on minimum wage or near to it wages.  Nobody can buy a home or support a family on that.  It's the BIG Big companies that produce good jobs.  We need big companies that pay around $30 an hour or more and have all the benefits.  Small companies can't do it.

That is, until the BC NDP was elected and started preserving more forests and making it more difficult for companies to get logs.  Now many mills have shut down.  Thank your good commie friends, the BC NDP and yourself who supports the commie marxists.

Most indigenous would likely strongly support DRIPA - it creates a parallel universe re: property rights. 

I don't blame them - it's a gift from heaven.

[Nefarious Banana]

Most all logging done in BC now is on private land.  

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, John Stone said:

Note: Aboriginal title sits  (unceded land) ABOVE private property rights – 95 percent of B.C. is crown land, ie – unceded.

Yup, we've got a lot of negotiating to do alright. The longer we put it off the harder it gets.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

Why would anybody be against the corporations that create wealth and good-paying jobs?? 

The same reason you're against unions, natives and environmentalists - we simply don't trust one another.

[herbie]

They're coming to take my house away Haha hoho heehee...

to the funny farm where we do the work and they get the pay

haha hoho heehee

Edited December 24, 2025 by herbie

[Zeitgeist]

Unceded doesn’t mean much in a context of warring tribes constantly displacing each other and groups that had few permanent settlements.  The problem with much of the land claim movement is that when Europeans first started coming the land seemed infinitely empty. Incrementally over hundreds of years people kept coming.  Now most immigrants aren’t from Europe.  More “colonization”, if you want to frame it that way, has happened over the past decade through mass immigration than at any point in our history, and that’s in the midst of the federal government’s shaming of Canada as a “culturally genocidal” “settler colonial” state.

Get real.  The world has changed and isn’t going back to the pre-colonial period.  You can’t have your cake and eat it too.  If you really want independence and self-determination, get off the taxpayer teet and try living a segregated life on whatever empty land is available, without free healthcare, education, and not having to pay taxes for infrastructure, etc..  Of course that’s not happening.  Instead we continue to throw money at an outdated reserve and status system, pretending to maintain an old way of life that simply doesn’t exist except in ceremony.  The land which was retained or settled through treaties is theirs to keep, but no one’s private title should be in jeopardy due to century plus old stuff.  If it is, we want all the property seized from the Loyalists who fled the U.S.   We’ll call that territory, “Wishful Thinking.”

Edited December 24, 2025 by Zeitgeist