Suspected Terrorists Arrested in Toronto

[FascistCanuck]

Well, hey, its a plot you know, Harper, RCMP and CSIS are all in on it.

3 Tons of Ammonium Nitrate, and other materials for making explosive, are we still sitting ducks, or will the naysayers continue to deny it.

I'm shocked! Shocked! It seems they were.... Muslims! I can hardly believe it! Would anyone else have suspected that!?

BTW, there is a stupid cow (Rosemary Thompson) on CTV now suggesting that our role in Afghanistan might be responsible for provoking such a thing, as well as our closeness to George Bush. Yet this group first caught the attention of CSIS two years ago, and apparently whatever they were doing and saying was enough to provoke continuous surveillance since then.

What should be especially noteworthy, though it does not surprise me, is that although many are immigrants, as one would expected, a number of them are "home grown" terrorists. They were raised here in Canada. That did nothing to dissuade them from wanting to launch a jihad against us, however, because, I think we'll discover, they were not raised AS Canadians. They were born and raised as foreigners on Canadian soil. We have allowed this to happen by taking in too many immigrants in too short a period of time. The result of which is that we have huge foreign communities within Canada's borders. Their kids are raised in those communities, speaking those languages first, watching satellite TV from "home", watching movies from "home", reading newspapers from "home" and, often as not, attending special ethnic/religious schools to retain their "culture" and "values".

Because of this, some of these "Canadians" might as well have grown up in Beirut or Tehran.

The solution is obvious; halt immigration for twenty to thirty years to allow the mass of immigrants here to become absorbed into the general population.

As a secondary solution, halt all immigration from Muslim countries. For any reason. If Muslim parents want their kids to go "home" to find a bride or groom they can damned well stay there. The authorities should also pay a lot closer attention to Muslim religious schools in Canada to see just what crap they are feeding into the minds of these kids.

No, no. My solution as a fascist is simpler. Round up every single Muslim in Canada, whether they were born here or not and send them on their merry way back from whence they and theirs originated. This is a security issue. I grow weary of watching and hearing Muslims threaten my country WHILST THEY ARE STILL ON CANADIAN SOIL!! I would take it a step further. As a fascist, I would seek to ban ALL religion and not just Islam. There is no GOD. Never has been and never will be. He is merely a myth created eons ago by frightened humans who did not understand the very world in which they lived. It is now the 21st century. Time to disengage all of Humanity from fairy tales and myths. We no longer require the Bible as a means of comfort. Those days are long gone.

I do hope either our military or our police forces adopt torture as a tactic of obtaining further information from these 'traitors' to Canada. A nice hammer to the fingers will elicit the mass of information we would require to end these bomb threats once and for all. Many would argue this is too cruel and inhumane. So prancing about Pickering with over 3 tonnes of explosives is not cruel and inhumane? What did they intend to do with such supplies? Feed the hungry? Is it not ironic they were caught in PICKERING? Take a moment to think about what would make an excellent target for these Muslim trash. Yes. The nuclear power plant. Read that article which started this thread again. One of the terrorists worked for a nuclear company. I smell an inside job here. What these terrorists could have gotten away with would have put the WTC massacre to shame. Minor league stuff. Imagine the damage which could be done if they succeeded in blowing up our nuclear power plant in Pickering? That is an act of war. If it is war they desire, then let us give it to them. It is time to rearm our nation. New planes. New tanks. New artillery. Naturally we begin this war at home. ALL Muslims are to be deported en masse. No discussion. Do it.

[Johnny Utah]

You can't start deporting Muslims because of these arrests, that's not being realistic. The Muslim Community where these arrests took place must be worried they will become targets of hateful ideals like that..

[August1991]

That said, i agree this case will become a political joke. Rocco is gonna ride this horse for all its worth. Canada being what it is will feel guilty about the charges.

This is going to split the country between people who live outside the big cities and have few immigrants with the big cities full of immigrants. You can already see the comments on these posts suggesting all liberals live in Toronto.

I agree.

The RCMP apparently sold this group the fertilizer and we still don't know if the group ever really took delivery. The bag of fertilizer shown in the press conference on Saturday was completely unrelated. Apparently, the RCMP went out bought a bag to be able to show something to the media. Furthermore, the RCMP failed to explain any of this during the press conference itself. It has been leaked to the Toronto Star.

The other evidence? A cell phone with some wires attached, a door with some holes and one pistol. There are claims of a "terrorist training camp" fronting as a cottage but we have no evidence. I just don't think the 20 guys shown in the court photos could show up in a southern Ontario resort town and fire off AK-47s without somebody noticing. The idea is preposterous.

The connection to Mohammed Mahjoub (held in prison in Kingston under a security certificate) tells me that the RCMP have known about this group for a long, long time. This is not some sleeper cell that appeared out of nowhere.

I don't know. If the FBI had arrested Mohammed Atta on Sept 10, perhaps that plan would have seemed amateurish and preposterous too. But for the moment, and given the RCMP's track record on these things, I'm going to follow my sceptical head.

This is not the prima facie case that was implied at first. These people deserve their day in court.

----

Incidentally, I have reported the post above to the moderator.

[geoffrey]

You can't start deporting Muslims because of these arrests, that's not being realistic. The Muslim Community where these arrests took place must be worried they will become targets of hateful ideals like that..

We can, however, start deporting muslims that openly hate Canada and just abuse us for our health care, while wishing we'd all die openly on the media. I'm speaking about the Khadr's, and numerous other Muslim families, that openly preach the greatness of Osama and how they want us to die, but somehow we accept them openly.

It's for this reason we have the situation we have in Toronto, and probably elsewhere the police don't know about in Canada. It's coming ladies and gentlemen, and bleeding heart Canadians refuse to do anything about it. God forbid we are politically incorrect.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/khadr/

Even CBC is harsh on them, though they don't mention the interview where the mother praised Osama and said that he does good working killing Westerners. Suprisingly, that was an accurate paraphrase I made.

From CTV http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...61001/20060110/

"Said she did not want to raise her children in Canada because they would have got involved in 'drugs and homosexual relationships.' Enrolled her sons in al Qaeda training camps."

--

We should arrest all these people indefinitely, they are obviously so mentally corrupt that they will never be able to fit into western society, and they are too large a threat to our troops if we return them to their al-Qaeda training camps.

Just remember, my Liberal friends in this country, that we openly accept al-Qaeda trainies. Until that changes, we are all at a very large risk.

[August1991]

We should arrest all these people indefinitely, they are obviously so mentally corrupt that they will never be able to fit into western society, and they are too large a threat to our troops if we return them to their al-Qaeda training camps.

Just remember, my Liberal friends in this country, that we openly accept al-Qaeda trainies. Until that changes, we are all at a very large risk.

"These" people? Which people?

Geoffrey, that remark is absurd. We can't start arresting people suspected of disloyalty.

It is true that we should screen immigrants and visitors better than we do now but most of the 17 were born here. It is odd that someone can go through Canada's (Ontario's) education system and have so little appreciation for western values.

[geoffrey]

We should arrest all these people indefinitely, they are obviously so mentally corrupt that they will never be able to fit into western society, and they are too large a threat to our troops if we return them to their al-Qaeda training camps.

Just remember, my Liberal friends in this country, that we openly accept al-Qaeda trainies. Until that changes, we are all at a very large risk.

"These" people? Which people?

Geoffrey, that remark is absurd. We can't start arresting people suspected of disloyalty.

It is true that we should screen immigrants and visitors better than we do now but most of the 17 were born here. It is odd that someone can go through Canada's (Ontario's) education system and have so little appreciation for western values.

That's not what I'm saying August, its not even about screening immigrants. It's about deporting everyone that is outspoken calling for violence against Canadians. I don't see why we should tolerate these people in our country, but we do. Why?

[Canuck E Stan]

That's not what I'm saying August, its not even about screening immigrants. It's about deporting everyone that is outspoken calling for violence against Canadians. I don't see why we should tolerate these people in our country, but we do. Why?

How do you deport persons born in Canada?

[August1991]

It's about deporting everyone that is outspoken calling for violence against Canadians. I don't see why we should tolerate these people in our country, but we do. Why?

Then I guess we should deport the poster above.

Look, Geoffrey, we have laws to deal with people who incite to violence. We can charge someone who makes serious threats to harm others.

As to the Khadrs, well I see your point. But we are a civilized society and even a parking ticket has to say what law you violated, when and where.

[gerryhatrick]

No, no. My solution as a fascist is simpler. Round up every single Muslim in Canada, whether they were born here or not and send them on their merry way back from whence they and theirs originated.

The true face of Stephen Harpers "new government"!!!

Thanks for that.

[August1991]

No, no. My solution as a fascist is simpler. Round up every single Muslim in Canada, whether they were born here or not and send them on their merry way back from whence they and theirs originated.

The true face of Stephen Harpers "new government"!!!

Thanks for that.

I reported that post to the moderator. No one is suggesting that the poster speaks for anyone but himself.

[Johnny Utah]

You can't start deporting Muslims because of these arrests, that's not being realistic. The Muslim Community where these arrests took place must be worried they will become targets of hateful ideals like that..

We can, however, start deporting muslims that openly hate Canada and just abuse us for our health care, while wishing we'd all die openly on the media. I'm speaking about the Khadr's, and numerous other Muslim families, that openly preach the greatness of Osama and how they want us to die, but somehow we accept them openly.

It's for this reason we have the situation we have in Toronto, and probably elsewhere the police don't know about in Canada. It's coming ladies and gentlemen, and bleeding heart Canadians refuse to do anything about it. God forbid we are politically incorrect.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/khadr/

Even CBC is harsh on them, though they don't mention the interview where the mother praised Osama and said that he does good working killing Westerners. Suprisingly, that was an accurate paraphrase I made.

From CTV http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...61001/20060110/

"Said she did not want to raise her children in Canada because they would have got involved in 'drugs and homosexual relationships.' Enrolled her sons in al Qaeda training camps."

--

We should arrest all these people indefinitely, they are obviously so mentally corrupt that they will never be able to fit into western society, and they are too large a threat to our troops if we return them to their al-Qaeda training camps.

Just remember, my Liberal friends in this country, that we openly accept al-Qaeda trainies. Until that changes, we are all at a very large risk.

The Muslim groups who wish open death on Canadians should be looked at, taken in for questioning until there are clear hate laws that would make wishing death on Canadians in open public illegal. I think the UK has a law like that..

As for those Families who support Bin Laden in the open, I wouldn't lose any sleep if they were deported. My thinking is there's Muslims in Canada who are peaceful and they shouldn't be painted with the same brush as these 17 Terrorists suspects yet these 17 Terrorist suspects could have seemed like everyday Canadians..

The Muslim Community needs to take a stronger stand and if they find Muslims in their Community who support Bin Laden and wish Death on Canadians even preaching it in their Mosques they should report their activities to the proper authorities as they would be helping their Community..

[gerryhatrick]

No, no. My solution as a fascist is simpler. Round up every single Muslim in Canada, whether they were born here or not and send them on their merry way back from whence they and theirs originated.

The true face of Stephen Harpers "new government"!!!

Thanks for that.

I reported that post to the moderator. No one is suggesting that the poster speaks for anyone but himself.

Who are you, Stephen Harper? Let your people speak. He's not inciting violence, only expressing a common attitude among rightwingers.

Geoffrey is doing the same, although he's dancing around the phrase "all these people". What he means is all Muslims, but when you pressed him he gave a half-hearted qualification that they'd have to be "outspoken calling for violence against Candians".

Initially he said "obviously so mentally corrupt that they will never be able to fit into western society".

Yep, same thing.

Let your fellow Alliance members in PC clothing speak August1991, they're not breaking any rules by exposing their narrow-minded intollerance.

[killjoy]

Actually FascistCanuk has been banned from more than a few forums. He's actually pretty proud of it.

No, he isn't 'average right-winger'. He's a troll.

.

[Charles Anthony]

Deporting suspects or sending them to American Cuba is tantamount to destroying evidence and foolish. (Of course, that is what happened to all of the debris from the World Trade Center, but that is a different topic. Or is it?) As a member of the public, I, for one, would love to get into the mind of these people. Just ask them a few questions, at the very least. Imagine them being interviewed on 20/20 or 60 Minutes. That would not only be interesting but I think it would lead us to more power in combatting them.

Surely to goodness, let our psychologists or psychonanalysts or criminologists or forensists or whatever study them!

Ah!!!!! but that would lead to us having to raise the cloak of secrecy.... I have heard the argument that issues of national security can not be made open to the public --- yadda yadda yadda -- but I have never heard anybody explain or justify it. Give me an example, even a hypothetical one, but give me an example. Maybe there is something that we should not know....

We should really slow down.

I fear a community that reflexively acts like a lynch-mob. Our courts make enough mistakes with innocently convicted people in jail -- what makes us think we know better?

I echo the statement: every suspect (regardless of our media-manufactured consent on their prejudiced guilt) should have their day in court.

I have heard more muslims in Canada categorically state that the muslim extremists and terrorists are a stain and an abomination to Islam compared to muslims "openly hate Canada" or anything of the sort. In fact, I have never heard any muslim in Canada say that they "openly hate Canada" ever! I have many friends and acquaintances who are muslim and they ALL insist that the islamic terrorists are mortal blasphemers. They will not go to Heaven.

Clearly there differences in the interpretation and practice of the Koran. Christians have extreme differences in dogmatic interpretation, practice and who will go to Heaven.

Look at Iraq today: muslims singling out and killing muslims. Clearly there is a domestic civil war that we do not understand. The Americans are not the sole enemy and target in Iraq. Any of us in North America able to explain the conflict between Sunnis, Shites and Kurds of Iraq? That is the conflict.

Anybody able to say what side of this civil war America is supporting?

Anybody able to justify America taking ANY side, for that matter?

As for "the Khadr's, and numerous other Muslim families" they deserve their day in court. Period. At the very least, we would do well to spend a lot of effort to understand them to better defend ourselves against them.

[Canuck E Stan]

Police planted evidence: Terrorists’ arrest in Toronto was a sting operation

From a new voice for a new Pakistan:

The three tonnes of ammonium nitrate found with the Totonto terrorism suspects was planted by the police in an elaborate sting operation.

According to Toronto Star, “Sources say investigators who had learned of the group’s alleged plan to build a bomb were controlling the sale and transport of the massive amount of fertiliser, a key component in creating explosives. Once the deal was done, the RCMP-led anti-terrorism task force moved in for the arrests.” At the news conference held by the police, there was no mention of the sting operation. Among the intended targets of the group, one report said, was the Parliament in Ottawa and the headquarters of Canada’s premier spy agency.

So was it a set-up or not?

[Argus]

No, no. My solution as a fascist is simpler. Round up every single Muslim in Canada, whether they were born here or not and send them on their merry way back from whence they and theirs originated.

The true face of Stephen Harpers "new government"!!!

Thanks for that.

What the hell are you talking about? The poster above is obviously a troll, his opinion absurd. Your attitude in immediately ascribing it to Harper, on the other hand, is disturbing.

[Argus]

We should arrest all these people indefinitely, they are obviously so mentally corrupt that they will never be able to fit into western society, and they are too large a threat to our troops if we return them to their al-Qaeda training camps.

Just remember, my Liberal friends in this country, that we openly accept al-Qaeda trainies. Until that changes, we are all at a very large risk.

"These" people? Which people?

Geoffrey, that remark is absurd. We can't start arresting people suspected of disloyalty.

It is true that we should screen immigrants and visitors better than we do now but most of the 17 were born here. It is odd that someone can go through Canada's (Ontario's) education system and have so little appreciation for western values.

I guess it's called "family values". From the looks of some of the family, they haven't been spending the last twenty five years assimilating into Canadian society. The kids probably went to Muslim religious schools, where we have no idea what was stuffed in their minds, and spent their evenings watching Al Jazeera and the like on their satellite dishes.

[Argus]

No, no. My solution as a fascist is simpler. Round up every single Muslim in Canada, whether they were born here or not and send them on their merry way back from whence they and theirs originated.

The true face of Stephen Harpers "new government"!!!

Thanks for that.

I reported that post to the moderator. No one is suggesting that the poster speaks for anyone but himself.

Who are you, Stephen Harper? Let your people speak. He's not inciting violence, only expressing a common attitude among rightwingers.

On the contary, open stupidity is more common among left wingers. Right wingers tend to be a lot more realistic about their political theories, plans and suggestions. It's the left which never allows reality or humanity to colour their ideologically based views. What's your solution, as a representative of the left, GH? Apologise for not being muslim, make Arabic an official language and build mosques on every street corner with government funds?

[killjoy]

One thing that nags at me is that, IIRC, in order to detonate ammonium nitrate one needs, specifically, an explosive concussion trigger. Not flame. Not electric shock. The Oklahoma bombers used dynamite to detonate the A.N. and blasting caps to detonate the dynamite. So far I've only read/heard about the 3 tons of A.N., no detonation mechanism. If it's not there would that be a point of contention in court? They only have to prove sincere intent, not full ability, but does that lack of the final ingredients in the confiscated booty signal legal problems later?

.

[Wilber]

Buying 3 tons of fertilizer in the spring would not be uncommon for a large farm.

I wonder at those who maintain our involvement in Afghanistan is what could have put this bunch over the top. So what. Nothing remotely justifies our citizens and immigrants plotting terrorist acts against their own country. Does Canada crawl into a hole and not involve itself in anything outside its borders out of fear that our own citizens will try and kill us and destroy our institutions? The thought that this nation could become so spineless frightens me a lot more than any terrorist.

[Riverwind]

They only have to prove sincere intent, not full ability, but does that lack of the final ingredients in the confiscated booty signal legal problems later?

I heard the police were the people who actually sold/delivered the fertilizer to the group. It is going to be virtually impossible to convict these guys unless they had the detonators as well.

[killjoy]

. It is going to be virtually impossible to convict these guys unless they had the detonators as well.

Not exactly. They don't need the detonators, but if they had documented instruction on how to build detonators from scratch, say from the internet (a Johnny Jihad version of the Anarchist Cookbook or something), plus the basic elements needed to get that final piece of the puzzle, well then like I say, they only need to prove serious intent (not just bragging).

Plus, just on a note of 'gossip', it would seem at least one of them considered themselves a poet/writer which of course is death to conspirators, as well the various authorities seem to insist a lot of the evidence is based on documented evidence from the internet and such. Is there a manifesto?

We'll have to see. The Devil is in the details.

.

[geoffrey]

In fact, I have never heard any muslim in Canada say that they "openly hate Canada" ever!

Actually, I have yet to hear any Muslim leader condemning these individuals, but hey, I guess that's a little too soon to expect a condemnation. Onto that statement in particular, have you not heard the things that the Khadrs say, while we fund their health care and welfare?

Here's some background:

The family patriarch, Ahmed Said Khadr, died in an October 2003 battle in Pakistan and was alleged to be funnelling money to Al Qaeda through his charity organization, court documents state. He had been charged in the 1995 Egyptian embassy bombing in Islamabad, Pakistan, but was released when then prime minister Jean Chrétien intervened on his behalf in 1996.

Khadr, twice divorced, now lives with other family members in a small Scarborough apartment. The family is fighting for the release of Khadr's younger brother, Omar, who is Canada's only known detainee at the U.S. camp in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The 18-year-old is accused of throwing a grenade that killed a U.S. army medic during an American attack on a suspected Al Qaeda stronghold. Omar, then 15, was the only survivor of the fight but was shot and lost sight in one eye.

She denied her family's involvement with Al Qaeda and played down the significance of Osama bin Laden's attendance at her 1999 wedding in the interview.

http://www.cageprisoners.com/articles.php?id=5642 (From the Tor Star).

These people have killed American troops, possibly bombed an embassy before Chretien cancelled the trial, funded Al Qaeda and are good friends with Osama. And they live in Canada. Do you actually think they love Canada, the land of opportunities for them? You can't be serious. I'm sure there are many people like this in Canada, buddy buddy with al Qaeda.

Put it this way, if you support al Qaeda, you don't belong in Canada. Any al Qaeda supporter hates our way of life, our freedom and our society.

[gerryhatrick]

Actually, I have yet to hear any Muslim leader condemning these individuals, but hey, I guess that's a little too soon to expect a condemnation.

Ah the tried and true rightwing outrage "THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING!!!" a.k.a. "I haven't heard Muslim leaders speak out/condemn".

An oft-repeated attack on Muslims.

Muslim leaders in Canada repeated a condemnation for terrorists. Guess you don't hear what you don't want to hear. In a month no doubt you'll be repeating the same lie about never hearing Muslims condemning terrorists.

[geoffrey]

Actually, I have yet to hear any Muslim leader condemning these individuals, but hey, I guess that's a little too soon to expect a condemnation.

Ah the tried and true rightwing outrage "THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING!!!" a.k.a. "I haven't heard Muslim leaders speak out/condemn".

An oft-repeated attack on Muslims.

Muslim leaders in Canada repeated a condemnation for terrorists. Guess you don't hear what you don't want to hear. In a month no doubt you'll be repeating the same lie about never hearing Muslims condemning terrorists.

How is that an attack on muslims, I want to hear them speak out against it. The community needs to denounce these people and distance themselves, otherwise that line gets more blurry.