Caledonia problem didnt arise overnight

[Ahni]

Hey Scribblet. I've been trying to follow this stuff you're talking about, tv news is awefully 'selective' though.

A couple things about these incidents: The first is not all the People (if any) were from the Site. In fact, atleast two of those arrested are Canadians http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/20.../caledonia.html Note the mentioning of the ATF in that article.

Secondly, here's a statement from Hazel Hill, the official Spokesperson for the Haudenosaunee, talking about these incidents: http://sisis.nativeweb.org/actionalert/upd...0hazelhill.html

Third, it's be nice for everyone to accept the fact that there has been many incidents from all sides here. Really, these are the first incidents that have happened from the Haudenosaunee side. There have been a couple others here and there, like the native man who the news caught 'taking down' this big white guy. What they didn't report was that the Haudenosaunee man was defending a local Canadian who the big white guy was beating up.

There was also the time when four cops were beating up a Native woman... four Native men went over there to help her, they attacked the cops. The CBC only showed the men attacking the cops. How convenient for them!

There's been many other things like this. The most striking point about all this though is non-natives are responsible from the majority of the incidents, And Now Canada has partnered with the ATF (before these recent incidents) which is obviously in direct relation to the NAFTA stuff that was just on the news last week, and no doubt in relation to the Bilderberg meeting that just happened N. of Toronto a few days ago (before the ATF thing was made public)

Anyways, I agree with Enskat, it's too bad this topic got side-tracked... but this stuff is important.

Here's an illustrative and very brief introductory history lesson:

I'd like you to imagine for a moment --- imagine that some guy from some other town came to your home and told you he claims your house as his own. He tells you he doesn't recognize you as a human being, so he takes you into your back yard, chains you to the fence, and then hands you a piece of paper that he tells you to sign. He says, "You can live here in Peace with your family, and I will live in the House with my family".

You sign it in good faith... Then he walks back into his house, leaving you with a spoon and some alcohol.

Now imagine this was done to every single Caledonia Citizen.

Now imagine this was done to every Canadian.

Not only has this sort of thing (ie, Caledonia) happened collectively to the Indigneous People of this Continent (In recent Canadian History there was Oka, Gustafsen Lake, Burnt Church, Ipperwash, Ahnishinabe Park, Sun Peaks, Grassy Narrows, Barriere Lake, and Clayoquot Sound to name a few) but in Canada alone there are currently 6000 unresolved land claims, thousands of cases for Residential School abuses, hundreds of Billions of dollars we are owed from treaty agreements, and the perveted idea that we are wards or subjects of the Government of Canada.

Always, it has been Canada doing something it has no legal authority to do, and then we are left no choice but to do - something, like what's being done near your homes now.

Sometimes people got hurt in the past - sometimes 80 year old women were arrested, young men were killed, little girls were traumatized, mothers were terrorized...

Always, these things happened because Canada allowed it to happen - because Canada refused to accept it's role and responsibilities on this land.

You see, Canada prefers to maintain it's image over enabling peace, enhancing democracy, and providing justice (to itself) even if it's at the expense of it's own people, or of separate Nations like the Haudenosuanee Nation.

I know, this his may be a bit difficult for some to fully get a hold on; This may be the first time some of you have even heard of stuff like this. But this is everyday for us.

It saddens me to hear and read about these recent incidents in Caledonia, just as much as the numerous attacks, abuses, and threats that non-natives have been agressing.

I will not attempt to justify or rationalize any of it (from either side). You gotta remeber though, the situation in Caledonia does not exist in a Vacuum. It is nothing more than one more line on a nearly endless list of criminal acts of genocide and terrorim against us.

Some of you probably don't like that I said that, and that it's a bunch of propaganda. Maybe it is, I'm not here to convince you or prove what I say. Learn Canada's history, decide for yourself based on the facts and perspectvies from ALL SIDES, and decide for yourself.

Here's a starting point:

A History of Land Claims in the Americas

The Demise of the Ongwehoweh

Warrior Societies in Contemporary Indigenous Communities

The Canadian Holocaust (PDF)

On the Art of Stealing Human Rights a speech given by Gerry Gambill at a conference on Human Rights at Tobique Reserve in New Brunswick, in August, 1958.

Ethnic Cleansing and Genocide in North America and Kosovo

[GostHacked]

Ahni,

The Bilderberg meeting you described was from the 8th to 11th (today) So I doubt all this stuff happeneing in Caledonia has anything to do with the Bilderberg Group. I don't see the connection. Also, N or Toronto is innacurate. It was held in Kanata (west suburb of Ottawa)

[Argus]

Secondly, here's a statement from Hazel Hill, the official Spokesperson for the Haudenosaunee, talking about these incidents: http://sisis.nativeweb.org/actionalert/upd...0hazelhill.html

Ahh, she sounds like a paranoid nut case, frankly. This is your official spokesperson? Are you all as loony as her? She also seems to be nothing more than an apologist for the violence natives are committing. If this is the kind of mentality among the natives we might as well send in the cops now because there's never going to be any kind of agremeent.

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

There there Argus et al. keep cool and make your point without throwin' insults around - If you can?

Are you coming to the concert this Friday? Would love to see you there. Come out meet some people, get out of the house and have some fun for a change perhaps even indulge in a conversation, maybe youll learn something.

See You there!

Friday June 16th @ Chiefswood Park, Six Nations (Hwy 54 & Chiefwood Rd), Ohsweken, ON

Noon till 12pm

*************

Please Note:

*************

Due to safety concerns, we will be checking all backpacks.

NO DRUGS, ALCOHOL OR VIOLENCE - ZERO TOLERANCE

NO ADMITTANCE will be permitted without this check.

Secondly, here's a statement from Hazel Hill, the official Spokesperson for the Haudenosaunee, talking about these incidents: http://sisis.nativeweb.org/actionalert/upd...0hazelhill.html

Ahh, she sounds like a paranoid nut case, frankly. This is your official spokesperson? Are you all as loony as her? She also seems to be nothing more than an apologist for the violence natives are committing. If this is the kind of mentality among the natives we might as well send in the cops now because there's never going to be any kind of agremeent.

[Argus]

There there Argus et al. keep cool and make your point without throwin' insults around - If you can?

I said she sounds like a paranoid loon. That wasn't an insult but a genuine opinion.

Two puzzled old folks get harrassed by a pack of native thugs, and she accuses them of "racial attacks".

The news media get attacked by natives and she says they were there by order of the government to cause problems!

An American border patrol car is attacked by natives and she hints at some kind of strange dark conspiracy, like, maybe the Seventh Cavalry is scouting ahead before they charge?

That and claims of black helicopters whizzing through the night sky make her sound like a fruitcake in search of a nut ward.

Move in the police, cart the rabble off to jail. Problem solved.

[scribblet]

Well, I'm sure the 'official spokesperson' will have a different spin. Maybe someone can show me some concrete evidence that none of this happened, and the media is just making it all up. And why it so politically incorrect to tell the truth about these clashes.

We need a public inquiry as to who is giving the police orders not to intervene and help Canadians, this like a Banana Republic these days and domestic terrorism is not solely an Islamic problem .

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/st...50c3895&k=56224

Seven aboriginals sought in Caledonia clashes

CALEDONIA, Ont -- Ontario Provincial Police say seven aboriginal protesters were involved in a string of violent clashes at the scene of a long-standing native blockade near Hamilton.

Warrents are being sought for the seven, who face some serious charges, including attempted murder, assault and forcible confinement.

The charges involve several violent incidents on Friday, including one in which protesters surrounded a U-S Border Patrol vehicle dragged out its three occupants.

OPP Constable Doug Graham says the vehicle was stolen and deliberately driven toward a provincial police officer, who was injured as he was pulled out of its path.

-snip-

One of the victims said police officers were nearby, but took no action.

[Rue]

"How have the Indians contributed to society in Canada? Any real examples?"

To answer that question you would have to make a serious effort to read up and research Canadian history. Sounds like you want people do to that for you. Sounds like you want natives to justify to you their identity and culture and role in the origins of Canada. Sounds like you want some short cut and some quick answers.

Instead of asking out loud, why not try answer the question yourself by going on the inter-net? If you did you wouldn't ask such questions or make sweeping statements and suggest trying to understand the origins of a legal dispute is "appeasement".

I will give you one answer. what have aboriginals contributed? Try your existing legal system-where do you think the laws come from? You think they are simply English common law cases?

Half the common law cases decided in Canada have called on principles that come from Aboriginal conflict resolution approaches.

Our approach to medicare and gun control was greatly influenced by how we interacted with natives and how we witnessed how they formed cooperatives in the harsh cold and climate.

Aboriginal customs being incorporated in mainstream law and statutes and in our

parliamentary traditions has kept as distinct from Americans.

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

Well from what ive heard the couple pulled over to the side of the road for the express purpose of causing a situation by using racial slurs. but the media condones this by not representing both sides of the confrontation. " Puzzled Old Folks " and the OPP officers encroaching upon the jurisdiction of the Six Nations Police were " lost " Hmmmm - I dont beleive either, nor do i beleive that the OPP would stand by and witness these alleged attacks. Its awfully convienient that the news agencies and private citizens are ready to film these incidents, and yet fail to get any footage containing any incitement from any townspeople whatsoever. Where were the cameras then? In my conversations with people im glad to note that most do not fall for the partial-reality portayed in the media of the last week - selective coverage. I guess getting it half right passes for conscientious journalism. sells papers though doesnt it? And this is only the first week of the media blitz.

Argus said " She also seems to be nothing more than an apologist for the violence natives are committing "

Youll have to specify where Hazel apologises for anything - the article that i read from her clearly states that things have been happening on BOTH sides, and that she didnt feel it was a good situation for anybody. The biased media coverage fails to mention the constant abuse received by the people at the site or any actions whatsoever from the towns people.

Argus said " That and claims of black helicopters whizzing through the night sky make her sound like a fruitcake in search of a nut ward."

The media, Police Agencies and the Military all have helicopters - is it so far fetched they would conduct nighttime flyovers? Are you at all familiar with seige tactics?

Also, in previous posts and posted newsarticles it has been mentioned that a hangar at the Hamilton airport has been converted to a barracks. Soldiers at an airport with a helicopter? ( look at my surprised expression lol ) and you dont think there is any possibility that they would fly over the site at night using night vision or thermal imaging cameras? Very easy to get a body count at night using these technologies.

Last time the police went in it sparked the erection of the road blockade, not to mention there are many people close by that are willing, ready and able to come to the site immediately - as proven in the first raid. So problem not solved, but some of the posters on the forum can get a warm fuzzy feeling watching video of Native people being manhandled and generally abused.

The Ol' 7th Cav eh? We all know how they wound up.

Heres a little history for you :

On Nov. 27, 1868, Custer led the regiment in a pre-dawn raid on a peaceful Cheyenne encampment on the Washita River in Oklahoma. It resulted in the massacre of hundreds of women, children and men. Cheyenne leader Black Kettle had already seen many of his people massacred in 1864 at Sand Creek. He had brought the survivors to Washita.

That sound familiar?

Even if there were no people occupying the site - there is still a freeze on development of ALL disputed lands, as well the government of canada is legally bound to " negotiate " these land claims. Another good point to be brought up again was the governments eagerness to move the land claim issues out of the courts and into " negotiations " If the canadian government truly held the Moral and Legal highround in these matters they would still be before the courts.

I hope the day is soon approaching where these cases will reach an International Court.

There there Argus et al. keep cool and make your point without throwin' insults around - If you can?

I said she sounds like a paranoid loon. That wasn't an insult but a genuine opinion.

Two puzzled old folks get harrassed by a pack of native thugs, and she accuses them of "racial attacks".

The news media get attacked by natives and she says they were there by order of the government to cause problems!

An American border patrol car is attacked by natives and she hints at some kind of strange dark conspiracy, like, maybe the Seventh Cavalry is scouting ahead before they charge?

That and claims of black helicopters whizzing through the night sky make her sound like a fruitcake in search of a nut ward.

Move in the police, cart the rabble off to jail. Problem solved.

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

Maybe someone can show me some concrete evidence that none of this happened, and the media is just making it all up. And why it so politically incorrect to tell the truth about these clashes

In our courts everybody is innocent until proven guilty, and the burden of proof is up to the prosecution.

So show me some video evidence of these altercations - and I mean the full story so everybody can accurately determine for themselves.

And ask themselves the question " What would I have done in that situation? "

How many contributors to this thread have actually been to the site?

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

Just a quick point to bring up.

Caledonia has received more money from the provincial government to offset the hardships brought about by the blockade.

Since the protest began some businesses have refused Native customers, ive also heard of OPP being refused service. Six Nations represents 10,000 plus people who have been told they are no longer welcome to shop in Caledonia from a number of sources.

Why should people who turn customers away be rewarded with subsidies?

IMO - Anybody who turns away business has no right to receive any monies.

Another thing is that since the main road through Caledonia is open ( Argyle ) and the primary road from Brantford Hwy 54 is open.... residents and travellers can access the town fully.

How is blocking the bypass seriously restricting people from patronising businesses in Caledonia?

In fact, wouldnt blocking the hwy6 bypass force more people and potential business through Caledonia?

What about people who run business on Six Nations? they run their business and have no real involvement with the protest. They have suffered financially as well !

When will they be receiving a balancing subsidy?

Before someone on here says it yet again *sigh* Here goes :

Not all Native people receive a monthly government cheque - the rate for welfare usage on the reserves are on par with their non-native counterparts.

[Ahni]

Hey All. First, heres a Press Release by the Six Nations:

Six Nations Haudenosaunee Confederacy

The Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) have issued arrest warrants for seven (7) people from the Six Nations Reclamation site. Charges include attempted murder, robbery, intimidation and causing bodily harm.

The Haudenosaunee Confederacy deliberated this issue during Council on Saturday June 10th, 2006. The individuals involved in these incidents were brought before the Confederacy Chiefs and Clan Mothers, on Sunday, June 11, 2006, to discuss and understand the incidents. The Confederacy Chiefs and Clan Mothers spoke with these individuals about the Great Law of Peace and how it is to guide our actions. Our investigation is continuing. It was decided that for the safety of all involved, these individuals would be removed from the site until our investigation is complete. We are working with the Ontario Provincial Police and the Six Nations Police to ensure the safety of all people within our respective jurisdictions.

Our investigation has indicated the “Border Securtiy” vehicle being driven by the “police officer” was actually an Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearm (ATF) vehicle from the United States of America. Two officers in the vehicle were from the United States of America accompanied by an officer with the Ontario Provincial Police. We have found evidence that indicates these officers were in the area since April 2, 2006 assisting in the current policing of the occupation of the Six Nations Reclamation site. This is particularly concerning due to the reputation of the ATF. The Haudenosaunee are dismayed that the OPP gave permission to these officers from the United States of America to assist in this situation without any prior communication to our people, this has incited an already tense situation. We are working with the Ontario Provincial Police to clarify this situation.

The Haudenosaunee has legally binding treaties with the Crown. The Two Row Wampum belt and the Silver Covenant Chain affirms the parameters of the relationship between our two governments. These treaties acknowledge the Sovereignty of our people and Nation. The Silver Covenant Chain speaks of a relationship between our two governments based upon Respect, Peace and Friendship. To have a good strong Friendship, there needs to be a commitment to exercise “Kanikonriio” that is the “Good Mind” which means equality, justice, and the Commitment to help each other in times of need. The Two Row Wampum Belt identifies the nation to nation basis which are people are to deal with. The Two Row Wampum Belt depicts our governments operating within our own “canoes”. This means that each of our respective governments will continue to operate under their own laws and will not interfere with the affairs of the other governments.

Under our treaties the only issues which fall under the Crown’s jurisdiction are Murder, Rape and Theft. According to the Treaty of Fort Albany made with the Crown there is an extradition process which must be followed in order to address any of these three issues.

Our people follow the Great Law of Peace and are not a people of violence. The Haudenosaunee are committed to ensuring that the Great Law of Peace is respected and followed at the Reclamation Site.

Haudenosaunee Media Contact: April Powless (519) 717-3921

The Bilderberg meeting you described was from the 8th to 11th (today) So I doubt all this stuff happeneing in Caledonia has anything to do with the Bilderberg Group. I don't see the connection. Also, N or Toronto is innacurate. It was held in Kanata (west suburb of Ottawa)

GostHacked, thanks for the clarification. I made an assumption on that (and glanced at the news piece), and I apoligize.

And why it so politically incorrect to tell the truth about these clashes.

Scribblet, It's only politically incorrect to speak the truth it's politically inconvenient...

The problem here is not about trying to discount or avoid facts, the problem is with all these people making all these assumptions and being so quick to judge, condem the whole, justify the use of violence and validate your own prejudices because of the actions of a few - whether or not they are from the Six Nations.

The OPP simply didn't move in because Six Nations Territory is Foregin Soil. Canada does not have any jurisdiction on that land, Canadian Law doesn't apply there. Canada has no authority.

That's what everyone's missing here - this situation is not about some group of Canadians doing something in Canada. This is an international situation between to Separate Nations. It could just as easily be between China and Tibet (maybe a bad example, since China did exactly what you're calling for, to the Tibetan People) or France and Venezuala, or the US and Guatemala.

[Big Blue Machine]

Didn't the natives sell the land to the company?

[Riverwind]

The OPP simply didn't move in because Six Nations Territory is Foregin Soil. Canada does not have any jurisdiction on that land, Canadian Law doesn't apply there. Canada has no authority.

What an unmitigated pile of bovine excrement. There is no sovereign nation called 'Six Nations'. It is childish to pretend that there is one.

If you want a sovereign nation then you can:

1) Start a war (and get crushed)

2) Organize a referendum on indepedence (like Quebequers).

However, if you opt for 2) you must remember that _all_ people living in the terrority have a right to vote. A referendum that only allows natives to vote would never be recognized internationally. Furthermore, even if such a referendum succeeds, this new 'six nation' nation will have to assume its share of the federal and provincial debt and would have to pay for many services that are provided by the Canadian government today. i.e. that nation would be bankrupt before it even starts.

Six Nation leaders may be able to use the threat of terrorism to bully Canadian gov't officials into pretending that it is a 'nation-to-nation' negotiation, however, nobody other than the self-deluded Six Nations leaders will take such a claim seriously.

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

Didn't the natives sell the land to the company?

The short answer is no, but to fully understand how the land changed hands you will have to research a few documents.

The Royal Proclamation of 1763 - basicially states that all Native lands must be sold directly to the Crown, and recorded publicly in the form of treaties. Then the Crown sells/grants the land to third parties.

The Haldimand Deed of 1784 - a tract of land 6 miles from both sides of the Grand River from source to termination. ( approx 950,000 acres ) After the American Revolutionary War, the Nations could not return to their homeland - now on American soil. In Honour of their military service and loyalty to the Crown - they were granted this new tract of land.

The Hamilton Port Dover Plank Road Agreement of 1841 - the agreement outlines a lease of land to allows a road to be built from Hamilton to Port Dover to facilitate shipping between Lake Ontario and Lake Erie. The land covered in the lease was the road from Hamilton to Port Dover, running one half mile from either side of the road. The terms of the lease were 21 years, renewed every 7 years. It is important to note that no payment was ever received on this lease, and the fact that the Crown sold lands adjacent to this tract, when they had no legal right to these lands.

Here are some supporting lnks :

Royal Proclamation of 1763 ---> http://www.canadiana.org/citm/_textpopups/...als/doc9_e.html

Background of the Haldimand Deed ---> http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/nr/prs/j-a2006/snjsbk_e.html

Map of lands granted in the Haldimand Deed ---> http://www.reclamationinfo.com/images/hald...tract%20map.jpg

Background of the Plank Road Agreement ---> http://www.sixnations.ca/Plank%20Road.pdf ( note : PDF )

Further, In 1987 this Plank Road Tract was officially placed as a land claim by the Six Nations.

link ---> http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/view/3219/1/32

Hope that gets you started

[sahara]

The OPP simply didn't move in because Six Nations Territory is Foregin Soil. Canada does not have any jurisdiction on that land, Canadian Law doesn't apply there. Canada has no authority.

If Canada has no authority quit taking all the benefits. Where does your welfare and child tax benefits and unemployment insurance cheques come from?

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

If Canada has no authority quit taking all the benefits. Where does your welfare and child tax benefits and unemployment insurance cheques come from?

Same place yours does. And as long as they are contributing to this fund they are able to draw upon it.

And ill add a pre-empitive quote to stop the argument i know that is coming....

Quote from article Six Nations seeks financial security

from the Turtle Island Newspaper:

About taxes: because of fiduciary obligations

attached to treaties under the Canadian Con-

stitution, the federal government sends $64

Million annually to run the Six Nations com-

munity.

Just one major employer on Six Nations

pays the government of Canada $120 million

a year in taxes. Who's subsidizing who?

Important to note that the money received goes to the Band Council to support public works etc. None of this money goes directly to people.

That money only represents taxes of ONE business on the reserve, and taxes are still paid on most things off-reserves well.

[sahara]

Same place yours does. And as long as they are contributing to this fund they are able to draw upon it.

AHHHH reap the benefits but not follow the rules...sounds like a seond grade classrooms argument

What a double standard

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

AHHHH reap the benefits but not follow the rules...sounds like a seond grade classrooms argument

What a double standard

Where in either of our posts was there any discussion about rules?

What double standard? Anyone who pays into the fund through taxes is entitled to make a claim.

To further my point - that ONE business contributes almost double to the Provincial/Federal tax coffers than the Band Councel receives back. To the best of my knowledge they are not required to pay these taxes but they do anyways. So if there is any double standard in the situation that would be it.

Only thing Second Grade is perhaps your inabilty to read and digest the article i posted.

[Canuck E Stan]

To the best of my knowledge they are not required to pay these taxes but they do anyways.

I think a lot of people here would have to be convinced with that statement.

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

Here is some background on the point i was trying to make :

Windspeaker Staff Writer

A point that arose during negotiations involving an on-reserve cigarette manufacturer and the federal government could have a positive impact on the economy of every First Nation in Canada.

Grand River Enterprises has agreed to pay federal excise and duty taxes in exchange for a federal manufacturing license. The company plans to meet with representatives of the federal Ministry of Finance to follow up on the possibility that some of that tax revenue could find its way into their local band council's coffers.

The Brantford Expositor- March 7, 2006

Grand River Enterprises, which manufactures cigarettes on the reserve, may well wonder why it pays $100 million in taxes a year if nothing happens to sellers of untaxed cigarettes.

[sahara]

Where in either of our posts was there any discussion about rules?

What double standard? Anyone who pays into the fund through taxes is entitled to make a claim.

LOL The rules i mean are the laws of this country, which since you say you are not a resident, don't reap the benefits, but if you wish to don't harbor the fugitves whom choose too terrorize the civilized residents. Iam not directly involved but your "people" have made me by my family loosing power food wages and our peace of mind. I'm not saying its wrong to protest I'm saying quit infringing on my personal rights to live in my community in peace. And send the criminals to jail broke the law in canada go to jail in canada.

[sahara]

In many parts of the world, when an individual or group perceives the rule of law to have dissolved, then he or they either take the law into their own hands or contract another group to enforce the law.

In third world countries it is quite common for individuals and companies to hire mercenaries and other qualified and trained “security” personnel for protection and the enforcement of the law.

In Caledonia, private property is being destroyed and citizens are being assaulted in plain view of established law enforcement. This law enforcement group has been sworn to protect these citizens but is refusing to perform that duty.

Perhaps it is time that Caledonia begin to look elsewhere for protection:

Mercenaries are plentiful and available for personal protection. They have been trained to react to dangerous situations and violence.

In large cities like Toronto, for major rock concerts and other events where strong crowd control is required, the promoters usually hire outlaw bike gangs to function as their security force. I understand that they do “keep the peace”.

If people in Caledonia do decide to employ that strategy then we may witness another bizarre chapter in the Caledonia fiasco. We can see television coverage of hired mercenaries and bikers “dealing with” the natives while the Caledonians join the OPP on the sidelines watching this theatre.

It may be expensive but would it be any more expensive than the price the Caledonians are now paying?

[jrs]

Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe

As deluded as I believe you are with your opinions I must give you credit for at least conducting an intelligent and civilized conversation; I wish I could say the same for your brethren in Caledonia.

If you honestly believe that you are a seperate and independant nation and the Canadian government and people disagree then this clearly seems to be an issue for the World courts to decide. But you will need to be recognized as an independant nation first. Approach the UN and see if you can get this recognition. Until such time this should be viewed by the Canadian people as a hostile takeover of land and a threat to our national security. National security issues need to be addressed by the military not the OPP.

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

What does any of what you wrote in your previous post have to do with the original question you posed?

Which was basically - What right do Native People have to access programs they dont contribute to?

To which I answered, that Native people do contribute to these programs through taxation -and provided resources backing up my point. Im also awaiting an email from Stats Canada, hopefully with more information i can post.

But to at least partially answer your sidetracked response :

Im not going to rehash the exact conversations You and I have had on previous threads.

Myself and other on the forum had a long drawn out debate regarding your issues with Native peoples. Seems youve come full circle and wish to start youre inflammatory crusade anew. Have Fun

Somehow you feel your rights are still being violated, all because of the power loss incident. Which as of yet - is still under investigation, and could quite possibly be the act of a Caledonia resident - thus far we dont know. But perhaps you should try and get youre hands on some of the funds which are flowing into the local businesses - they have been allocated more funding, as i mentioned in a previous post - I dont want t doubl epost so feel free to read it and respond to the arguments ive brought up there.

Last i heard at about 6pm this evening all the people ( save one who is still in custody ) the police were looking for were found, processed, and released.

When are those who have been harrassing people on the site ( night and day ) going to be caught and prosecuted? We cant just prosecute one side here - two sides to every coin...

With all that said - dont get me wrong I understand the source of your anger, and i can sympathise with your personal situation. Where we seem to differ is the issue that Natives have a right to be there.

If you have any suggestions as to how to make the Govermnent recognise the legality of the situation - and bring about the restoration of Native land Rights in a peacable way - im listening....

Where in either of our posts was there any discussion about rules?

What double standard? Anyone who pays into the fund through taxes is entitled to make a claim.

LOL The rules i mean are the laws of this country, which since you say you are not a resident, don't reap the benefits, but if you wish to don't harbor the fugitves whom choose too terrorize the civilized residents. Iam not directly involved but your "people" have made me by my family loosing power food wages and our peace of mind. I'm not saying its wrong to protest I'm saying quit infringing on my personal rights to live in my community in peace. And send the criminals to jail broke the law in canada go to jail in canada.

[jrs]

And your response to my post?