Caledonia problem didnt arise overnight

[Canuck E Stan]

If the Canadian government takes responsibility for their financial actions, it may clarify their "spending" and "hand outs" ~whether it be for the Natives, the "caucasians" or the "immigrants".

As well it should be known that many bands, nations, townships and municipalities do not receive their following fiscal funds, until proper reports are filed and audits are done. By the time funds get from government down to the people, it passes through a dozen government offices, that all get their "administration" fee's and the sums end up being significantly smaller than the "average" citizen assumes. SO, it is with confidence that I say I'm sure there is documentation somewhere in the governments tickle trunk of "financial affairs", WHERE exactly the money goes. If you think that the $10 bill question is up to the Natives to answer, then you're barking up the wrong tree...again.

Heck... we can't even find out how much they paid off Henco for!

Comparing apples to oranges is doing nothing for either side of the fence.

Sorry,but your answer doesn't cut it.

The statement was:

Eighty per cent of the money the federal Department of Indian Affairs spends on aboriginals is TRANSFERED not to individuals, but TO NATIVE BANDS WHERE IT IS THEN DISBURSED THROUGH LOCAL CHIEFS AND BAND COUNCILS

IF the natives recieved $8 Billion,then yes the natives have to answer to where it went.

Obviously you don't really have a clue(or care) how the chiefs and band councils are distributing native money.

Just bury your head in the sand and just keep blaming everyone and the government for your misfortunes.

Natives talk a lot about self government,and with $8 billion the natives could and should prove to the world they are capable of doing it.

Every year for generations billions are given,and there doesn't seem to be any change in native problems or life style.

Maybe with 50% of the native population being under 25, natives should look at themselves and start changing the way they are led.

And begin to look for leaders who can lead this proud young generation forward.

Canadians may not understand native problems,but at the same time Canadians don't see native leaders doing much for individual natives at the national or local level.

That change has to come from within the native culture.

If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem.

[NativeCharm]

Okay, just cause Im a curious critter by nature I’m gonna take a poke at this mind boggler. The real mathematicians, please step in any time and correct me accordingly.

8 BILLION dollars a year? ( is this right? Per year)

Okay 8 billion a year divided amongst 1.4 million people (according to the 2001 census, I personally bet that our pop. is grossly higher, which we will find out soon)

Now don’t forget the bands and council need their administration fee just like mayors and their councils, I’m assuming both of the mentioned people have nice homes and cars, cause surely they must do a good job cause we elect them there right?

So after 15% of the admin is gone, that leaves us with...6.8 billion divided amongst (lets just say our population) 1.4 million which would be approximately 4857 per Indian per year (tax free for those living on the reserve) which equals to just more than 13 dollars a day which is an amount that hardly covers anyone’s daily gas or water consumption…am I getting anywhere here folks? AM I really that far off?

So now that we’ve been broken it down just a little, what exactly are the annual costs of BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS in THIS country? How much is it to have fresh water, roads, infrastructure on an annual basis? REALLY WHERE DOES THIS MONEY GO? Aren’t these “equal Canadians” that live in “ REMOTE/RURAL” areas entitled to the same “kind” of dollars that the government hands out to townships?

Keep in mind that a large portion of Native Canadians WORK in the cities and pay taxes to the almighty just as other “civilians”. As well, each and every Native Canadian citizen is also a consumer in this country, contributing to our own economy. So the average “non-Native” taxpayers do not ALL absorb that entire 8 billion dollar bill. (for those of you that don’t notice the increase of our standard of living, its because many of us don’t live in teepee’s, nor run around waving our tomahawks in the air. We are everywhere now, not like before.

I do not think you or anyone is in any position to start demeaning our leaders, when yours are raping the entire country's civilization of their future and resources. Sustainability should be all of our concern, not just the Natives.

The only problem is those that wont contribute to a solution for everyone’s benefit.

I’m just curious…how much government money do the townships/ municipalities of Canada receive on annual basis? I’m guessing the figure is just as scary as the sound of 8 billion? And why do their mayors get nice lawns and pretty fences?

Anyone know?

I think this is just another stereotypical attack on our people’s.

[betsy]

LMFAO BUDDY! Sober up and straighten out. The Caledonian residents have been paying taxes to the wrong people, thats all. If you want accountability, take a number and get to the back of the line! After you're done standing in line for a couple hundred years, write the government and see if you can get your money back, before you get evicted...LMAO.

Well, whether your rationale is right or wrong....it still does not justify your actions. Your beef is with the government. You're taking your frustrations out on residents who have nothing to do with your problems.

You've practically hijacked a town and crippled its businesses (not to mention the aggravation and inconveniences on the residents) in your attempt to get your own way. In gangsta world, this is similar to extortion. In current global stituations...this is terrorism.

You may have a legitimate reason to be angry....but you're whipping the wrong folks. Why should they have to put up with it?

So you can't blame others living outside of Caledonia to emphatize with what those residents are going through. Of course, the sympathy goes to them. And that's hurting your cause....because you're looking like the bad guys.

[gc1765]

I agree that we MUST have accountability, but it's also a fact that cheques are not made payable to "Chief So & SO", it's made payble to that band, town etc etc. Spending money is usually voted by a council and cheques require more than one signator. So it's not fair to say that the chiefs are the root of all Native financial evils.

I never said that chiefs are the root of all Native financial evils. However, it is true that some chiefs pocket more money at the expense of the rest of the band. That is a sad fact, but a fact nonetheless. I would like your opinion on how to go about solving this problem (if you do recognize that it is a problem).

[NativeCharm]

LMFAO BUDDY! Sober up and straighten out. The Caledonian residents have been paying taxes to the wrong people, thats all. If you want accountability, take a number and get to the back of the line! After you're done standing in line for a couple hundred years, write the government and see if you can get your money back, before you get evicted...LMAO.

Well, whether your rationale is right or wrong....it still does not justify your actions. Your beef is with the government. You're taking your frustrations out on residents who have nothing to do with your problems.

You've practically hijacked a town and crippled its businesses (not to mention the aggravation and inconveniences on the residents) in your attempt to get your own way. In gangsta world, this is similar to extortion. In current global stituations...this is terrorism.

You may have a legitimate reason to be angry....but you're whipping the wrong folks. Why should they have to put up with it?

So you can't blame others living outside of Caledonia to emphatize with what those residents are going through. Of course, the sympathy goes to them. And that's hurting your cause....because you're looking like the bad guys.

ME? Listen sweetheart, be careful before you start trying to label me as a terrorist in my own fucking country, cause I will hunt you down and bannock slap your pink ass!!!!

Seems to me like you many of "you's in here" have a beef with the Natives that have land entitlements and don't pay taxes...AND you're discriminating to those of us that do PAY taxes. You too may have a legitimate reason to be angry, but you can't disrespect a Nation of peoples that is simply defending what is theirs. I assume Caledonia would be doing the same.

As far as bad guys, you're only trying to paint black kettles. There is more than an ample amount of evidence that clearly demonstrates the ongoing rasicm, hate crimes, DRUNK behaviour, public disorder and COMPLETE DISREGARD FOR THE LAW...by Caledonia Residents.

Apparently Caledonia has a real beef to, that they too should be directing at the government. But it seems like the folks were just WAITING for another reason to hate the "Indians". And to answer your answer question, on why they should have to put up with it. Well it's simple. Their living on land that isn't theirs. In fact, it's almost like they live in another country. They should be asking their mayors and leaders for historical data and EXPLANATIONS on WHY they were allowed to set up on homestead on someone elses land..INSTEAD of asking the government for violence and a fucking handout that my hard earned taxes have to pay for!!!

Next time, Betsy, can you please keep your statements and questions on a more intelligent level, keep up with the crowd will ya?

[NativeCharm]

I agree that we MUST have accountability, but it's also a fact that cheques are not made payable to "Chief So & SO", it's made payble to that band, town etc etc. Spending money is usually voted by a council and cheques require more than one signator. So it's not fair to say that the chiefs are the root of all Native financial evils.

I never said that chiefs are the root of all Native financial evils. However, it is true that some chiefs pocket more money at the expense of the rest of the band. That is a sad fact, but a fact nonetheless. I would like your opinion on how to go about solving this problem (if you do recognize that it is a problem).

Oh it's a problem alright, but let's tend to our problems in a chronological manner. My suggestion for this problem for those "some" chiefs is that the people need to be educated on commerce, accountability and transparent funding/ spending.

Scenario: When members hear" the band just got a million dollars" many of them start thinking.." where's my cut?". Little do they realize that the band is in a defict cause of the new school, or the fresh water system. Some do, Some don't. Might I suggest some reading material for you? Taiaiake Alfred writes about how we lost several generations of our leaders simply because they were acting like the white ones.

Interesting none the less.

Again, in case you missed my suggestion: people need to be educated on commerce, accountability and transparent funding/ spending.

[gc1765]

I agree that we MUST have accountability, but it's also a fact that cheques are not made payable to "Chief So & SO", it's made payble to that band, town etc etc. Spending money is usually voted by a council and cheques require more than one signator. So it's not fair to say that the chiefs are the root of all Native financial evils.

I never said that chiefs are the root of all Native financial evils. However, it is true that some chiefs pocket more money at the expense of the rest of the band. That is a sad fact, but a fact nonetheless. I would like your opinion on how to go about solving this problem (if you do recognize that it is a problem).

Oh it's a problem alright, but let's tend to our problems in a chronological manner. My suggestion for this problem for those "some" chiefs is that the people need to be educated on commerce, accountability and transparent funding/ spending.

Scenario: When members hear" the band just got a million dollars" many of them start thinking.." where's my cut?". Little do they realize that the band is in a defict cause of the new school, or the fresh water system. Some do, Some don't. Might I suggest some reading material for you? Taiaiake Alfred writes about how we lost several generations of our leaders simply because they were acting like the white ones.

Interesting none the less.

Again, in case you missed my suggestion: people need to be educated on commerce, accountability and transparent funding/ spending.

Thank you.

[NativeCharm]

FYI

Thursday, June 22, 2006: McGuinty calls for Six Nations to leave reclamation site; Henco to be paid $12.3 million plus additional money for "loss of future profits"

Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty asks Six Nations people to leave the reclamation site, saying there's "no need" for an ongoing presence as the colonial government is now paying attention to the issue of land theft. McGuinty also discloses that the province has agreed to pay $12.3 million to buy out Henco, with ongoing negotiations for "an additional amount to be paid for the loss of future profits".

Finally paying attention to LAND THEFT, yep If I lived in Caledonia I'd be woried and pissed off to. Both parties need to hold the gov't accountable and demand prompt action on this one. For the sake of everyone, afterall it's already too late for the children, they have now been taught to hate the "indians" and the "whites". Lovely mess, just FN lovely. While everyones sitting here pointing the finger at everyone else, but the culprit.

[betsy]

Well, whether your rationale is right or wrong....it still does not justify your actions. Your beef is with the government. You're taking your frustrations out on residents who have nothing to do with your problems.

You've practically hijacked a town and crippled its businesses (not to mention the aggravation and inconveniences on the residents) in your attempt to get your own way. In gangsta world, this is similar to extortion. In current global stituations...this is terrorism.

You may have a legitimate reason to be angry....but you're whipping the wrong folks. Why should they have to put up with it?

So you can't blame others living outside of Caledonia to emphatize with what those residents are going through. Of course, the sympathy goes to them. And that's hurting your cause....because you're looking like the bad guys.

ME? Listen sweetheart, be careful before you start trying to label me as a terrorist in my own fucking country, cause I will hunt you down and bannock slap your pink ass!!!!

Seems to me like you many of "you's in here" have a beef with the Natives that have land entitlements and don't pay taxes...AND you're discriminating to those of us that do PAY taxes. You too may have a legitimate reason to be angry, but you can't disrespect a Nation of peoples that is simply defending what is theirs. I assume Caledonia would be doing the same.

As far as bad guys, you're only trying to paint black kettles. There is more than an ample amount of evidence that clearly demonstrates the ongoing rasicm, hate crimes, DRUNK behaviour, public disorder and COMPLETE DISREGARD FOR THE LAW...by Caledonia Residents.

Apparently Caledonia has a real beef to, that they too should be directing at the government. But it seems like the folks were just WAITING for another reason to hate the "Indians". And to answer your answer question, on why they should have to put up with it. Well it's simple. Their living on land that isn't theirs. In fact, it's almost like they live in another country. They should be asking their mayors and leaders for historical data and EXPLANATIONS on WHY they were allowed to set up on homestead on someone elses land..INSTEAD of asking the government for violence and a fucking handout that my hard earned taxes have to pay for!!!

Next time, Betsy, can you please keep your statements and questions on a more intelligent level, keep up with the crowd will ya?

Read and understand, Native Charm. Don't let all your misplaced anger get the better of you.

The land may be yours....or not. The problem is still between you and the government. The residents of Caledonia are the victims here. It all boils down to that simple fact.

You may not see it that way....but I'm sure other Canadians following the incidents are looking at your antics in a very different light. Yes, for some (like me)....I can't help but equate the situation to terrorism! Too bad...but that's the way I see it.

And I don't like the idea that it's being done in my own country! And that some of my innocent countrymen are needlessly suffering. These are some of the emotions this issue is evoking to other bystanders like me as we watch the scene unfold! I put myself in their shoes.

That's why I'm saying, this is only hurting your cause. At another time and another place, perhaps I would've understood and emphatized with you. But not on this one.

And Caledonia does not have to put pressure on the government and carry your torch for you...as a trade off for them to have their normal lives back.

If you want to protest....you can have your protest, without having to hurt anyone.

[betsy]

There is more than an ample amount of evidence that clearly demonstrates the ongoing rasicm, hate crimes, DRUNK behaviour, public disorder and COMPLETE DISREGARD FOR THE LAW...by Caledonia Residents.

The irony is, now those behaviours by the Caledonians towards you (if your statement is accurate) is quite understandable. I would be p***ed off too (to put it mildly) and be swearing worse than a sailor at the ones who's hurting my livelihood, causing me all these aggravation and inconveniences. Especially when I don't have anything at all to do with their freakin' problem!

Of course they're lashing back at you. Know what? That's part of human nature.

[Riverwind]

Of course they're lashing back at you. Know what? That's part of human nature.

I tried to explain that over and over again but they do not seem to get it. Racism begets racism - the only way to end the cycle is to eliminate privileges based on race.

[betsy]

ME? Listen sweetheart, be careful before you start trying to label me as a terrorist in my own fucking country, cause I will hunt you down and bannock slap your pink ass!!!!

No, I don't mean you personally.....unless you're one of them participating in that blockade.

I agree with you, Riverwind....racism begets racism.

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

No need? Until ALL the land claims have been resolved there is a need. There is a long road ahead, and without the acknowledgement that Six Nations have rights in regards to the Lands outlined in the Haldimand Deed, its going to be hard to trust Mr. Mcguinty.

Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty asks Six Nations people to leave the reclamation site, saying there's "no need" for an ongoing presence as the colonial government is now paying attention to the issue of land theft.

Furthermore, If the land formerly known as Douglas Creeks Estates has been reclaimed and is now part of Six Nations Lands - What right does he have have to tell the protetesters to leave Six Nations Territory?

NONE

The lands recovered from Douglas Creek and Burtch are steps in the right direction, but the issue is far from over. I dont see any reason that the protesters shouldnt remain strong and keep bringing attention to the subject. The issue is much bigger than Six Nations VS Henco. Land issues from coast to coast still need to be resolved, protests should continue - if only for the single reason to keep a bug in the governments ear.

If the protest stops, and everyone quiets down as the Premier has asked - what guarantee do we have that the issue wont be swept under the carpet and ignored once again? And for how long this time? another 200 years? If anything is to be learned from this, it is that unless the issue is public, the government doesnt feel obligated to act.

Let all the bands with land claims join hands.....

SOLIDARITY !!!

[Riverwind]

The lands recovered from Douglas Creek and Burtch are steps in the right direction, but the issue is far from over. I dont see any reason that the protesters shouldnt remain strong and keep bringing attention to the subject.

If you push too hard you will find that the majority in this country pushes back. There is not enough money in the country to pay the theoretical cost of native land claims nor is the majority going to turn the country into an apartheid like state run for the benefit of a racial minority. Whether you like it or not that majority has the ultimate power to override any law and ignore any contract. You can threaten to start your own little intifada but you would be defeated in the end by numbers and economic weight.

There is enough goodwill that native groups that temper their demands could negotiate a reasonable settlement. Further violence and ridiculous posturing will simply make a negotiated settlement more difficult to achieve.

[NativeCharm]

Well, whether your rationale is right or wrong....it still does not justify your actions. Your beef is with the government. You're taking your frustrations out on residents who have nothing to do with your problems.

You've practically hijacked a town and crippled its businesses (not to mention the aggravation and inconveniences on the residents) in your attempt to get your own way. In gangsta world, this is similar to extortion. In current global stituations...this is terrorism.

You may have a legitimate reason to be angry....but you're whipping the wrong folks. Why should they have to put up with it?

So you can't blame others living outside of Caledonia to emphatize with what those residents are going through. Of course, the sympathy goes to them. And that's hurting your cause....because you're looking like the bad guys.

ME? Listen sweetheart, be careful before you start trying to label me as a terrorist in my own fucking country, cause I will hunt you down and bannock slap your pink ass!!!!

Seems to me like you many of "you's in here" have a beef with the Natives that have land entitlements and don't pay taxes...AND you're discriminating to those of us that do PAY taxes. You too may have a legitimate reason to be angry, but you can't disrespect a Nation of peoples that is simply defending what is theirs. I assume Caledonia would be doing the same.

As far as bad guys, you're only trying to paint black kettles. There is more than an ample amount of evidence that clearly demonstrates the ongoing rasicm, hate crimes, DRUNK behaviour, public disorder and COMPLETE DISREGARD FOR THE LAW...by Caledonia Residents.

Apparently Caledonia has a real beef to, that they too should be directing at the government. But it seems like the folks were just WAITING for another reason to hate the "Indians". And to answer your answer question, on why they should have to put up with it. Well it's simple. Their living on land that isn't theirs. In fact, it's almost like they live in another country. They should be asking their mayors and leaders for historical data and EXPLANATIONS on WHY they were allowed to set up on homestead on someone elses land..INSTEAD of asking the government for violence and a fucking handout that my hard earned taxes have to pay for!!!

Next time, Betsy, can you please keep your statements and questions on a more intelligent level, keep up with the crowd will ya?

Read and understand, Native Charm. Don't let all your misplaced anger get the better of you.

The land may be yours....or not. The problem is still between you and the government. The residents of Caledonia are the victims here. It all boils down to that simple fact.

You may not see it that way....but I'm sure other Canadians following the incidents are looking at your antics in a very different light. Yes, for some (like me)....I can't help but equate the situation to terrorism! Too bad...but that's the way I see it.

And I don't like the idea that it's being done in my own country! And that some of my innocent countrymen are needlessly suffering. These are some of the emotions this issue is evoking to other bystanders like me as we watch the scene unfold! I put myself in their shoes.

That's why I'm saying, this is only hurting your cause. At another time and another place, perhaps I would've understood and emphatized with you. But not on this one.

And Caledonia does not have to put pressure on the government and carry your torch for you...as a trade off for them to have their normal lives back.

If you want to protest....you can have your protest, without having to hurt anyone.

BooHoo on you and your crying the "victim" game. According to our country standards and your own, that doesn't work anymore. Do you and your fellow "countrymen a.k.a SQUATTERS" a big favour and get off someone elses property and perhaps their livelihood wont be affected as long as it had been to our people.

Again, I see the limit of your intellect and your selective compassion.

The government has been applying "terrorist" tactics on our people even in current day, yet, I don't see your emapthy towards your brown "countrymen". You're a racist and you lack the audacity to admit it.

P.S. when the "squatters" finally do move, recommend that they chose somewhere other than Six Nations( the Haldimand Tract), as well~ doing proper research before making any other land purchase with "our tax paying" dollars. Then again, if they're good tenants and neighbours perhaps they will be allowed to stay. I have no idea on that particular subject, as of yet.

[Riverwind]

The government has been applying "terrorist" tactics on our people even in current day, yet, I don't see your emapthy towards your brown "countrymen" then. You're a racist and you lack the audacity to admit it.

How do you know that anyone on this forum is white? That is a pretty big assumption to make.

[NativeCharm]

You can threaten to start your own little intifada but you would be defeated in the end by numbers and economic weight.

This holds no weight and is merely a theory that is meant to imply the protests don't work. So far so good, I say. We are finally getting some action from the government, worldwide attention, worthy media involvement and above all, nation wide UNITY.

The only economy being affected in that target region is the community of the illegal residents.

Try again Riv, maybe get one of your buddies to help stretch your rubber arm And noticeably, I didn't say "white", you did. Oddly you connect racist and white together. Well, I guess not so odd.

[Riverwind]

Try again Riv, maybe get one of your buddies to help stretch your rubber arm And noticeably, I didn't say "white", you did. Oddly you connect racist and white together. Well, I guess not so odd.

You can''t weasel out that easily. You are the one who said: 'I will hunt you down and bannock slap your pink ass!!!!'

This holds no weight and is merely a theory that is meant to imply the protests don't work. So far so good, I say. We are finally getting some action from the government, worldwide attention, worthy media involvement and above all, nation wide UNITY

Protest all you want but don't expect any huge settlements. Do you honestly think a politician will get elected by promising to pay out billions to natives and then annoucing they have to cut back on health spending to pay for it.

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

Riva Menchen - you do have a lack of respect for legality/contracts - or is that only ones signed with Native peoples?

You can attempt to spin the issue any which way you want but the facts remain the same. Contracts were signed between two peoples, and government is starting to deal with the fact that they havnt lived up to their obligations in these agreements. ( Whether YOU like it or not ) Your fear over your " apartheid-like-state " forming is short sighted and laughable - What do you think the reserve system is? OH! but the problem is that now the shoe may be on the other foot, right!? Another point is that it wouldnt be " run for " anybody. You really are afraid that if given the opportunity and resources that they were promised they will be successful.

Thankfully, Uber Riv despite your assertion to the contrary - that MAJORITY you speak of - do not think along the same lines as you. I dare say they would choose to honour a contract signed. So let me affirm the fact your are securely in the moral minority.

If you push too hard you will find that the majority in this country pushes back.

AND

You can threaten to start your own little intifada but you would be defeated in the end by numbers and economic weight.

I didnt threaten anything of the sort!, but your push and shove statement, and your comparison to Intifada seems to highlight a preoccupation with violence - I guess youre expressing what you would like to see happen. Everyone has the right to protest injustice - Native people as a whole have endured years of mistreatment and are now joining together in strength to bring to the public awareness regarding the details of what they have gone through. Most people honestly dont know the history, but they are learning.

The more the truth gets out, the more goodwill there will be - so support WILL grow in the non-native community. Some may quickly understand that Natives have a legitamate right to the land and monies. I support any non-violent means that draws attention to this issue, be it peaceful sit in, temporary road blockages or handing out information pamphlets outside establishments situated on disputed lands OR Political venues.

There is enough goodwill that native groups that temper their demands could negotiate a reasonable settlement. Further violence and ridiculous posturing will simply make a negotiated settlement more difficult to achieve.

Temper their demands - Riv? Why should they alter any of the agreements?

Want to help with the violence? Lets start with settling down the provocateurs in the non-native community.

Ah and - ridiculous postering - like saying a deal is not a deal - I dont have to honour contracts signed because my group is in the majority?

[NativeCharm]

"You can''t weasel out that easily. You are the one who said: 'I will hunt you down and bannock slap your pink ass!!!!"

I assume Betsy's ass is pink ...from the way she talks and banters one can only assume that she's had her ass beat before.

You feel it's fair (not that I care) that she can weasel out of saying that anyone involved with the blockade on Six nations territory is a terrorist? I don't think so!!!! If you're gonna back your little buddy up, you might wanna put a muzzle on her or let her take care of herself.

She self identified her own stupidity.

In regards to the billions of dollars from campaigning politicians....Riv have you ever actually sat down and had a REAL discussion with any our leaders? From your presumptions, I doubt it. I'm sure you absorb only what you see in the media. You assume that that is what they want. In reality, they want a settlement that is fair for everyone involved. Unlike our counterparts, we can be fair and realistic. The statements of billions is what is owed, not entirely what is sought.

[Riverwind]

Ah and - ridiculous postering - like saying a deal is not a deal - I dont have to honour contracts signed because my group is in the majority?

The so called deals are impossible to honour today without imposing huge burdens on the non-native population. That is the reality and that is why you are wasting your time going on about how a 'deal is a deal'.

Thankfully, Uber Riv despite your assertion to the contrary - that MAJORITY you speak of - do not think along the same lines as you. I dare say they would choose to honour a contract signed. So let me affirm the fact your are securely in the moral minority.

How many people would agree to a 2% increase in the GST to pay for these deals? I am guessing next to zero. Most non-native people who support native land claims now are people who think they can be honoured without having to make personal sacrifices. Any support will evaporate the second people realize that it will cost them personally.

[Riverwind]

You assume that that is what they want. In reality, they want a settlement that is fair for everyone involved. Unlike our counterparts, we can be fair and realistic. The statements of billions is what is owed, not entirely what is sought.

I know there are 600+ bands in Canada. Some of them, like the Nisga, are willing to be practical and cut a deal taht is fair to both sides. Unfortunately, there are always going to be some bands that expect the moon and make a lot of noise when they told where to go.

[NativeCharm]

You assume that that is what they want. In reality, they want a settlement that is fair for everyone involved. Unlike our counterparts, we can be fair and realistic. The statements of billions is what is owed, not entirely what is sought.

I know there are 600+ bands in Canada. Some of them, like the Nisga, are willing to be practical and cut a deal taht is fair to both sides. Unfortunately, there are always going to be some bands that expect the moon and make a lot of noise when they told where to go.

Well I don't think the Six Nations people are asking for the moon. Yes, some will always cause more shit than others, HOWEVER it donesn't mean you can put all the eggs in one pot. That's like saying if Betsy acted like a monkey, she's really a monkey, and anyone thats looks like her is a monkey too.

[NativeCharm]

Just for you Riv, for all the times you've made me laugh. Now go do your homework. You know damn well settlement funds can come from other sources other than OUR tax dollars.

Canada is the third largest producer of diamonds,has 10 per cent of the worldsforests,and mines 60 metals and minerals. Oil is now over $72 a barrel,up from $10 a barrel in 1999,and there are,1.4 trillion barrels of oil in the tar sands plus hundreds of other oil and gas producing areas.canada had eight straight federal government surpluses,a 2005 reported net worth of $4.5 trillion ,and gdp over a trillion dollars.today the federal government raises far more revenue from its share of resource royalties than it does from income taxes.

This statement is one of the primary reasons for the trillion dollar debt owed to Native nations in Canada. How bout we increase the taxes on the corporations that are savaging our lands? Lest we forget to mention that the size of the fines these guys get for violating our laws is ridiculous!

Stop blamin "ol' Indian"!

[Riverwind]

Well I don't think the Six Nations people are asking for the moon. Yes, some will always cause more shit than others, HOWEVER it donesn't mean you can put all the eggs in one pot.

Since I am not privy to the treaty discussions it is not possible for me to know what is on the table. What I do know is the Six Nations is claiming rights to a big swath of urban land and there is absolutely no chance that it will be simply handed over.

The biggest issue for bands with claims in urban areas will be getting along with neighboring munipalities since there is a fundemental conflict between what native bands want (i.e. make money) and what other urban residents want (i.e. a nice place to live).