Ignatieff v. Harper

[August1991]

The federal Liberal Party may face a serious choice: who speaks best for English-Canada?

Here's my possibly harsh opinion of Ignatieff.

But I'm intrigued. Who is a better representative of what modern English Canada/ROC is? Stephen Harper or George Ignatieff? If English Canada had to choose a typical representative, who would honestly and best state English Canada's case? In the White House? In French? Would English-Canada choose Ignatieff or Harper?

If English-Canada were a small civilized country, like Norway or Iceland, who would it choose as its best representative, Ignatieff or Harper?

----

With all that said, I still think the federal Liberals will choose Dion as their leader. Federal Liberal Party tradition dictates a francophone leader, and a choice of Dion would pit in the next federal election a francophone Dion against an anglophone Harper. The federal Liberals are sneeky and many believe that Dion (by name alone) will get votes in Quebec and urban, left Ontario.

IOW, the federal Liberal Party will choose Dion to pull a stunt and win votes. And English-Canada will never get its voice and Canada will once again avoid its fascinating drama.

Will English Canada ever get the chance to tell French Canada what it honestly wants in this country?

[Guest Warwick Green]

The federal Liberal Party may face a serious choice: who speaks best for English-Canada?

Here's my possibly harsh opinion of Ignatieff.

But I'm intrigued. Who is a better representative of what modern English Canada/ROC is? Stephen Harper or George Ignatieff? If English Canada had to choose a typical representative, who would honestly and best state English Canada's case? In the White House? In French? Would English-Canada choose Ignatieff or Harper?

If English-Canada were a small civilized country, like Norway or Iceland, who would it choose as its best representative, Ignatieff or Harper?

----

With all that said, I still think the federal Liberals will choose Dion as their leader. Federal Liberal Party tradition dictates a francophone leader, and a choice of Dion would pit in the next federal election a francophone Dion against an anglophone Harper. The federal Liberals are sneeky and many believe that Dion (by name alone) will get votes in Quebec and urban, left Ontario.

IOW, the federal Liberal Party will choose Dion to pull a stunt and win votes. And English-Canada will never get its voice and Canada will once again avoid its fascinating drama.

Will English Canada ever get the chance to tell French Canada what it honestly wants in this country?

None of them is attractive and they all have warts of some sort - a guy who has lived the last 20 years in the US; a failed premier; a guy suspected of leaking government policy to Bay Street. Dion - no charisma, not known in ROC and won't do anything for the party in Quebec.

[betsy]

Of course I'd say Harper!

[Argus]

The federal Liberal Party may face a serious choice: who speaks best for English-Canada?

But I'm intrigued. Who is a better representative of what modern English Canada/ROC is? Stephen Harper or George Ignatieff? If English Canada had to choose a typical representative, who would honestly and best state English Canada's case? In the White House? In French? Would English-Canada choose Ignatieff or Harper?

Which Canada? Without question Ignatieff speaks to the politically correct urban elites as represented by the national media. Do I need to add that Ignatieff is an ivory tower academic who only qualifies as "Canadian" due to a birth certificate? Honestly, what does he know about Canada? A place he hasn't been to in 30 years? He can speak for Canada about as well as I can speak for Iowa.

With all that said, I still think the federal Liberals will choose Dion as their leader. Federal Liberal Party tradition dictates a francophone leader, and a choice of Dion would pit in the next federal election a francophone Dion against an anglophone Harper. The federal Liberals are sneeky and many believe that Dion (by name alone) will get votes in Quebec and urban, left Ontario.

In my opinion Martin was as French as he was English. What says one as opposed to another? Mother English, father French. Grew up in Ontario but went to French schools, then spent all his life in Quebec.. I don't think Dion will go over well in English Canada. I think English Canada needs more time away from a Quebec leader, at the very least, to distance itself from the corruption scandals. At least in that respect Ignatieff is the better choice.

[Rue]

Dion will not win. There is no French conspiracy at work behind the scenes. I am a Liberal but sick of the party and think it needs a complete enema from top to bottom and should not be in power for a minimum of 6 years until all the corupt sob's fly the coop. Until then Harper can kick ass. I regret however that Harper is abandoning much of his platform and adapting the corupt ways of the Liberals and beginning to show an arrogant dictatorial style like King Chretien. I am a blue Liberal or extreme centralist so I am not happy with anyone running. I also think Bob Rae is a friggin joke. Being a Habs fan I suppose Ken Dryden has to be my choice although he is about as charismatic as a dead moose.

[gc1765]

The liberals do not need another francophone leader. We had chretien for too long, and although martin is anglophone he lived in montreal so that doesn't really count, especially since he was only the leader for 2 years.

[August1991]

Which Canada? Without question Ignatieff speaks to the politically correct urban elites as represented by the national media. Do I need to add that Ignatieff is an ivory tower academic who only qualifies as "Canadian" due to a birth certificate?

I guess this answers my question best.

My point was that since Pearson, English Canada hasn't had a genuine spokesman as PM. Canada is hardly the first country which has a tradition of having successful leaders come from a minority. But it seems to me that it's time, after almost 40 years, to have a PM who speaks in the cadence of English-Canada's WASP majority.

Ignatieff doesn't seem to fit that requirement and he would appear to be just another leader talking down to English-Canadians.

Among the Liberal leadership crew on offer, I don't see any other possible victor except Dion. And everyone here is saying that the Libs won't choose Dion.

Incidentally, my reading is that federalist French Quebec is more likely to vote for Harper than for Ignatieff.

[geoffrey]

Ignatieff won't make inroads in the west for the Liberals, though really its unlikely that any Liberal leader will so I guess thats a moot point.

It's all about Quebec, and Harper is doing well to appease the soft nationalists as of right now. Harper won't have much of a challenge up against any Liberal leader, short of having the Liberals promise every Quebecker a large sum of cash upon re-election.

So Ignatieff will play to the area that Liberals have solidly, Toronto. With them unlikely to make gains elsewhere next election, maybe its best to protect the last stronghold?

August, you made the comment about the last English PM to make a case for English Canada was Pearson. We can then accurate say we haven't had a conservative PM make a case for English Canada since Dief. He was also the last to stand for the West... its been 43 long years since we've had a voice in Ottawa. And I'm finding we don't have one in Harper.

[Guest Warwick Green]

Incidentally, my reading is that federalist French Quebec is more likely to vote for Harper than for Ignatieff.

Right now Harper will trump any of the Eleven Dwarfs in Quebec. That is not to say the situation will remain the same over the coming months.

[August1991]

This old thread seems appropriate. (Charles/Greg, please don't merge it with another thread.)

I still think this question is pertinent - Who speaks best for English Canada?

I tend to see Canadian federal politics through the prism of language and region. For about 40 years now, English (WASP) Canada has not had a spokesperson as PM. Stephen Harper, whatever his faults, is at least a typical English-Canadian. Michael Ignatieff (despite being the nephew of George Grant) is not.

Perhaps I'm wrong and perhaps Canada is now post-modern.

Incidentally, my reading is that federalist French Quebec is more likely to vote for Harper than for Ignatieff.

I wrote this over two years ago, before the Montreal Liberal conventin that chose Dion.

I wouldn't say the same now. In the last federal election (2008), Harper made a mess of his Quebec links (despite having been tone-perfect until then). This will be Harper's undoing in Quebec where the Tories will keep at best the old Creditiste ridings.

As to this past Quebec election, Harper was not wrong to rant against separatists/sovereignists and his rants don't hurt the federalist cause in Quebec. OTOH, Trudeau's rants were particularly successful because everyone knew that Trudeau understood the situation of Quebec in North America. After this past federal election, it appears that Harper does not understand Quebec. (BTW, Harper could have at least made reference to the "socialist NDP" as much as the "separatist Bloc".)

You have my interest.....why August 1991?

Why did I choose the nom-de-plume August1991?

In August 1991, Mikhail Gorbachev went on vacation to the Black Sea as General Secretary of the CPSU. He was kidnapped, there was an attempted coup and when he returned to Moscow several weeks later, he was still General Secretary and officially everything was the same, but clearly it was not.

.

I have always feared that we live in L'Ère de l'inconscience. People find it difficult to understand what is important. More specifically, I meant it in terms of the fragility of Canada's federation.

Edited December 11, 2008 by August1991

[normanchateau]

Stephen Harper, whatever his faults, is at least a typical English-Canadian.

Typical of what century?

In 2008, most Canadians do not believe in jail time or permanent criminal records for marijuana possession. Bizarrely, Harper does. Nor do most Canadians oppose abortions, embryonic stem cell research or same sex marriage.

Harper is not a typical Canadian but he is a typical, intolerant Canadian.

[M.Dancer]

Nor do most Canadians oppose abortions, embryonic stem cell research or same sex marriage.

Is trhis the typical Liberal strategy? Campaigning for issues that are dead?

[Oleg Bach]

Is trhis the typical Liberal strategy? Campaigning for issues that are dead?

Liberals are facinated by dead things - it gives them a sense of power and control. Dead things and issues rarely if ever put up a fight.

[cybercoma]

George Ignatieff

Isn't it Michael Ignatieff?

[LesterDC]

deleted

Edited December 11, 2008 by LesterDC

[Mr.Canada]

Well, Canadians have spoken and Harper was the choice by the majority of Canadians.

[cybercoma]

Well, Canadians have spoken and Harper was the choice by the majority of Canadians.

That's not true.

[Mr.Canada]

That's not true.

Of coarse it is. He and his party won the most votes. Do you deny this?

[LesterDC]

Well, Canadians have spoken and Harper was the choice by the majority of Canadians.

Sure, if you think 5 million Canadians out of 33 million Canadians is an astounding majority..

[cybercoma]

Of coarse it is. He and his party won the most votes. Do you deny this?

That's not what you said. You said he was the choice of the majority of Canadians, do you deny this?

[Mr.Canada]

Sure, if you think 5 million Canadians out of 33 million Canadians is an astounding majority..

59% of Canadians voted first of all.

Next. In a three party system anything over 33% is a majority. Harper got 38% of the vote.

[Smallc]

Next. In a three party system anything over 33% is a majority.

[Mr.Canada]

That's not what you said. You said he was the choice of the majority of Canadians, do you deny this?

Yes, the majority of Canadians chose Stephan Harper over the others.

[guyser]

59% of Canadians voted first of all.

Next. In a three party system anything over 33% is a majority. Harper got 38% of the vote.

I guess those two weeks did nothing for you?

He did not get a majority this time, just like the last time.

[Smallc]

Yes, the majority of Canadians chose Stephan Harper over the others.

Saying something that's wrong over and over again doesn't make it right.