Have Trump and his ICE agents become a terrifying Fascist state?

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

And? She sounds like a terrible person who did not take breaking the law seriously

How did she break the law?  She is certainly not a terrible person.  She was brought to the U.S. by her mother more than a decade ago when she was under 15.  She never broke any law and she is married to a U.S. citizen, a veteran in fact who served his country.

She just heard earlier this year about a deportation order issued in 2018.  Perhaps the order was sent to her mother who she had been estranged from for years.

So now ICE arrested her and took her away from her husband, two year old child and the new baby.  Sounds brutal to me.  She was not breaking any law.  Why would anyone just abandon their husband and two children and leave the country?  That sounds insane.  Do you have any compassion at all?  I guess not.  Sad.

Edited yesterday at 05:01 AM by blackbird

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

How did she break the law?  She was brought to the U.S. by her mother more than a decade ago when she was under 15.  She never broke any law.

Oh my god, how are you this dense? IT says RIGHT IN THE STORY that she was ordered deported in 2018 AND SHE CHOSE NOT TO OCMPLY!!!

That's breaking the law!

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

What are you talking about? 

Do you need me to say this slower? 

Instead of leaving as required BY LAW she CHOSE to STAY and then had children, exposing them to exactly this situation. 

It's irresponsible AND criminal!

It's like you don't even read what you post

[blackbird]

7 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Oh my god, how are you this dense? IT says RIGHT IN THE STORY that she was ordered deported in 2018 AND SHE CHOSE NOT TO OCMPLY!!!

It doesn't say that.  It says a deportation order was issued in 2018 but apparently she never received and never learned about it until earlier this year.   You must not have read it correctly.

Also, last month she was in the office applying for a Green card to enable her to stay, but someone called ICE and they arrived and arrested her.  The whole thing is insane.  She is married to a marine veteran who is a U.S. citizen and they have two children who are U.S. citizens.  

It is totally wrong to take her away from her family and deport her.

Haven't you got any compassion for people?

[CdnFox]

34 minutes ago, blackbird said:

It doesn't say that.  It says a deportation order was issued in 2018 but apparently she never received and never learned about it until earlier this year.   You must not have read it correctly.

Also, last month she was in the office applying for a Green card to enable her to stay, but someone called ICE and they arrived and arrested her.  The whole thing is insane.  She is married to a marine veteran who is a U.S. citizen and they have two children who are U.S. citizens.  

It is totally wrong to take her away from her family and deport her.

Haven't you got any compassion for people?

She is in the country illegally and if we take your version of events she knew that she wasn't in the country as a citizen or even a landed immigrant because she didn't have a green card. So she didn't bother to check up and see what her status was, but she definitely knew that she wasn't supposed to be there. She just didn't give a fcuk and carried on with her life. It's not like she had permanent residency or a green card and wasn't informed that it had been revoked

Again, she's in the country illegally, she absolutely had to know that she didn't have permanent status, should continue to break the law by choice and  now that that's come home to roost she's all upset and teary-eyed.

She is in the country illegally, either change the law or she has to leave. If you want to get something mad about somebody about it then get mad at her mom for illegally bringing her in, her for deciding to ignore her own status, or the American people for not changing the law. But there is nothing wrong or crazy or even remotely inappropriate about getting someone out of the country who has no legal right to be there

[blackbird]

57 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Oh my god, how are you this dense? IT says RIGHT IN THE STORY that she was ordered deported in 2018 AND SHE CHOSE NOT TO OCMPLY!!!

You are the one that is dense.   You didn't read it correctly.  

I already repeated it once but I'll repeat it again:

"According to her husband, that process was going smoothly until she learned earlier this year that Immigration and Customs Enforcement had issued an order for her deportation in 2018, after her mother, from whom she had been estranged for years, failed to appear at an immigration hearing."

It says quite clearly an order for her deportation was issued in 2018, but it also says she learned about it THIS YEAR.

Can't you read?

She never received the order until this year.

Seems pretty clear to me.  I don't know what is the matter with you.  Are you deliberately not acknowledging that?

10 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

She is in the country illegally and if we take your version of events she knew that she wasn't in the country as a citizen or even a landed immigrant because she didn't have a green card. So she didn't bother to check up and see what her status was, but she definitely knew that she wasn't supposed to be there. She just didn't give a fcuk and carried on with her life. It's not like she had permanent residency or a green card and wasn't informed that it had been revoked

Again, she's in the country illegally, she absolutely had to know that she didn't have permanent status, should continue to break the law by choice and  now that that's come home to roost she's all upset and teary-eyed.

She is in the country illegally, either change the law or she has to leave. If you want to get something mad about somebody about it then get mad at her mom for illegally bringing her in, her for deciding to ignore her own status, or the American people for not changing the law. But there is nothing wrong or crazy or even remotely inappropriate about getting someone out of the country who has no legal right to be there

You repeat the same thing a hundred times.  Gets tiring.  Give it a rest.

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

You are the one that is dense.   You didn't read it correctly.  

I already repeated it once but I'll repeat it again:

"According to her husband, that process was going smoothly until she learned earlier this year that Immigration and Customs Enforcement had issued an order for her deportation in 2018, after her mother, from whom she had been estranged for years, failed to appear at an immigration hearing."

 

You're not paying attention and you have the attention span of a goldfish.

" Following her marriage to Adrian Clouatre in 2024, she began the process of securing a green card so she could legally live and work in the U.S."

So prior to that she knew she was in the country unlawfully. Whether she knew about the deportation order or not she knew that she didn't have a green card and that she did not have residency status.

And that means she didn't try and do anything about it or address the issue between 2018 and 2024.

Do you understand that yet? She just kept living in the country knowing that she didn't have status until she got married and decided she needed status after getting married. If she had looked into it or tried to become legal in the country prior to that she would have known about the issue and she could have dealt with it but now because she's left it she's got a problem.

So she's been on a deportation order since she was 18 years old, she knows she comes into the country illegally, doesn't do anything to resolve the issue at any point in her life even though she's estranged from her mother and just carries on blissfully ignoring the issue and now she's got a problem

I'll say it again because you appear to be very slow at getting your head around this simple concept:She knew she was in the country illegally. That's why she was going to try and get a green card Almost a decade after she turned 18

Then it blew up in her face. But this is the law, she's been an adult for many years, she chose to ignore something and now her choices have come back to bite her in the ass. Maybe she should have cleared this up before she got married and before she decided to start a family, now she's waited and because of her bad choices I'm supposed to feel bad that she screwed her family over?

 

Is that any more clear for you? She is the bad guy here. She chose to ignore the law and now it's had consequences.

You seem to feel that she should be completely forgiven for breaking the law. You don't think laws matter apparently. I recommend changing the law you're like oh no no we should just ignore the law we have

She is in the country illegally, punch her sorry ass out and maybe she'll learn a valuable lesson about paying the attention to what's going on around you in the future and not ignoring her problems

[User]

38 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Seems pretty clear to me.  I don't know what is the matter with you.  Are you deliberately not acknowledging that?

This is comical. You are cowardly hiding from me right now because you deliberately did not acknowledge your lie about what I said. I showed you over and over and over again, you lied, you ran, you lied again... 

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

She just kept living in the country knowing that she didn't have status until she got married and decided she needed status after getting married.

She did the normal thing that anyone else would do in her situation.  You and User have no compassion or humanity for other people.  She did nothing to be in the circumstances she was or is in.  She should be given a Green card and not deported and break up a family for no reason.  Her 2 yr old and 3 month old baby need her to look after them.  Her husband needs her.  Don't be such a heartless character.  You are not there and it affects you in no way.

[User]

4 hours ago, blackbird said:

She did the normal thing that anyone else would do in her situation.  You and User have no compassion or humanity for other people.  She did nothing to be in the circumstances she was or is in.  She should be given a Green card and not deported and break up a family for no reason.  Her 2 yr old and 3 month old baby need her to look after them.  Her husband needs her.  Don't be such a heartless character.  You are not there and it affects you in no way.

Once again, you are a coward. You continue to talk about me while you hide from me and refuse to acknowledge that you lied. 

I have compassion, but you are one again lying. She did not try to do the right thing until AFTER she was married. 

Read the article:

"Following her marriage to Adrian Clouatre in 2024, she began the process of securing a green card so she could legally live and work in the U.S."

She had already been here illegally for almost a decade. She was already in her 20's. She didn't try to do the right thing right away and now she is going to have to go through the process of dealing with her being here illegally. 

You don't get to come here unlawfully and then be here for a decade and then try to do the right thing only AFTER you get married. 

That is not how the law works. 
 

[blackbird]

"ICE is arresting more non-criminals than ever: Just 8% of detainees have serious criminal records"

 

[User]

18 minutes ago, blackbird said:

"ICE is arresting more non-criminals than ever: Just 8% of detainees have serious criminal records"

 

Being here unlawfully makes people criminals.

[CdnFox]

8 hours ago, blackbird said:

She did the normal thing that anyone else would do in her situation. 

No, normal people do not stay in a country illegally ignoring the law for decades at a time. And if they do then normal people wind up getting charged and deported.

She broke the law, and she knew that she was breaking it and she knew that she had to deal with it and she chose not to. Then she tried to ask for forgiveness and deal with it way too late, which is fine, it's better than not dealing with it at all and getting caught and thrown out later but at the end of the day the government has decided  to enforce the law.

 

And she absolutely 100% completely entirely did something to be in the circumstances that she is in. She chose to remain in the country illegally without addressing the problem. Now you can make an argument that before she was 18 she was a kid and can't be held responsible but that was a long time ago.

And because she chose that she's got a legal problem. Now she will have to leave the country and she will have to apply for her green card and citizenship and all of that festive stuff away from her family because she chose not to deal with this when she should have 7 years ago and if she had chosen to do so the way things were at the time chances are should have got this all cleared up, she'd be 100% legal and she would have no trouble. But she didn't

There's no way you can dance around this, everything that is happening is her fault 100% based on her choices.

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

She chose to remain in the country illegally without addressing the problem.

she chose not to deal with this when she should have 7 years ago 

The problem with that reasoning is huge.  Most importantly is her family.  She has a three year old and a baby as well as a husband who are U.S. citizens.  So the idea of just leaving them is incomprehensible.  Also being deported to who knows where is a major problem as well.  She was brought to America when she was still a kid and has no idea what she would do or how she would survive if just dumped in some foreign country.  It is very naive to think that is a good solution.  

There are different Bible interpretations about the illegal immigration issue and how to deal with it.

The following article resonates with me on the subject.

quote

Bible Verses About Illegal Immigration

Welcoming the Stranger

When we think about illegal immigration, one significant aspect we can reflect upon is the importance of welcoming strangers. Throughout the Bible, we see God’s open arms towards those who are foreign or in need. As believers, we are encouraged to extend that same grace and love to others, regardless of their immigration status. In these passages, we can learn that showing kindness and hospitality is not merely a suggestion but a commandment grounded in our faith. We have to remember that each person has a story, and many come to us seeking refuge and hope. Let’s embrace these verses as a guide for how we can defend love and compassion in action.

Exodus 22:21

“Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.” – Exodus 22:21

Leviticus 19:34

“The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.” – Leviticus 19:34

Matthew 25:35

“For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in.” – Matthew 25:35

unquote

30 Powerful bible verses about illegal immigration (Full Commentary) - Bible Study For You

There seem to be two schools of thought on this.

1.  The hard-hearted approach that says just deport them no matter what.  This seems to be the Trump and his MAGA base approach.  There are also Bible verses that could be understood to support this approach.

2.  The merciful, humanitarian approach which is described above.  Many if not almost all are actually refugees seeking a safer and better life.  The great majority are not in the serious criminal category.  The 8% with serious criminal records are another subject.  I am not talking about them.

I lean toward number 2.

 

 

Edited 17 hours ago by blackbird

[gatomontes99]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

The problem with that reasoning is huge.  Most importantly is her family.  She has a three year old and a baby as well as a husband who are U.S. citizens.  So the idea of just leaving them is incomprehensible.  Also being deported to who knows where is a major problem as well.  She was brought to America when she was still a kid and has no idea what she would do or how she would survive if just dumped in some foreign country.  It is very naive to think that is a good solution.  

There are different Bible interpretations about the illegal immigration issue and how to deal with it.

The following article resonates with me on the subject.

quote

Bible Verses About Illegal Immigration

Welcoming the Stranger

When we think about illegal immigration, one significant aspect we can reflect upon is the importance of welcoming strangers. Throughout the Bible, we see God’s open arms towards those who are foreign or in need. As believers, we are encouraged to extend that same grace and love to others, regardless of their immigration status. In these passages, we can learn that showing kindness and hospitality is not merely a suggestion but a commandment grounded in our faith. We have to remember that each person has a story, and many come to us seeking refuge and hope. Let’s embrace these verses as a guide for how we can defend love and compassion in action.

Exodus 22:21

“Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.” – Exodus 22:21

Leviticus 19:34

“The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.” – Leviticus 19:34

Matthew 25:35

“For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in.” – Matthew 25:35

unquote

30 Powerful bible verses about illegal immigration (Full Commentary) - Bible Study For You

There seem to be two schools of thought on this.

1.  The hard-hearted approach that says just deport them no matter what.  This seems to be the Trump and his MAGA base approach.  There are also Bible verses that could be understood to support this approach.

2.  The merciful, humanitarian approach which is described above.  Many if not almost all are actually refugees seeking a safer and better life.  The great majority are not in the serious criminal category.  The 8% with serious criminal records are another subject.  I am not talking about them.

I lean toward number 2.

 

 

And Exodus also says "Anyone who steals must certainly make restitution, but if they have nothing, they must be sold to pay for their theft."

Are you advocating for slavery as well? Do you really expect Christians to live by the rules of the Israelites? 

More importantly, Christians do live by "love your neighbor as yourself." But that doesn't mean let your neighbor walk all over you, take your job, get women and children raped, sell mind altering drugs that can kill you with one use or that there should be no laws.

Lets dispense with misusing biblical text for your political advantage. That makes you a false profit. 

Edited 15 hours ago by gatomontes99

[Nationalist]

16 hours ago, blackbird said:

It doesn't say that.  It says a deportation order was issued in 2018 but apparently she never received and never learned about it until earlier this year.   You must not have read it correctly.

Also, last month she was in the office applying for a Green card to enable her to stay, but someone called ICE and they arrived and arrested her.  The whole thing is insane.  She is married to a marine veteran who is a U.S. citizen and they have two children who are U.S. citizens.  

It is totally wrong to take her away from her family and deport her.

Haven't you got any compassion for people?

I married a woman who had defected from Soviet Czech. We voluntarily went back there to fix her residency here.

THAT is the proper and legal way to do it. I have no sympathy for this twit and her husband...who I'm sure knew what was happening. 

[blackbird]

33 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

But that doesn't mean let your neighbor walk all over you, take your job, get women and children raped, sell mind altering drugs that can kill you with one use or that there should be no laws.

A posted earlier a report says only 8% of illegal migrants are convicted of serious crimes.

But you are using that old lie of painting them all as criminals.

You lose credibility when you make that claim repeatedly.  

Many of the undocumented migrants are doing work that Americans do not want, such as farming, hotels, and restaurants.  Immigrants do contribute billions of dollars to the economy.  So your claim of "taking your job, rape and selling drugs" is an outright lie.  As I said, only a very small percentage are serious criminals.  Painting them all as criminals is reprehensible and dishonest.

There are many American citizens that are serious criminals too.

Trump and his followers are spewing lies when they claim most are criminals.  They do that to try to justify their inhumane ICE raids and deportation.

Edited 15 hours ago by blackbird

[blackbird]

12 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

We voluntarily went back there to fix her residency here

That doesn't work in for undocumented migrants in the U.S.   It is impossible for the average migrant to "fix their residency" from another country.

Canada is by comparison an easy country to immigrate into.

[Nationalist]

9 minutes ago, blackbird said:

That doesn't work in for undocumented migrants in the U.S.   It is impossible for the average migrant to "fix their residency" from another country.

Canada is by comparison an easy country to immigrate into.

Horseshit! She married a US citizen. A marine no less. They can go to her home nation apply and she will get a green card at the very least.

[gatomontes99]

36 minutes ago, blackbird said:

A posted earlier a report says only 8% of illegal migrants are convicted of serious crimes.

So? Are you not aware that just the act of crossing the border gets women and children RAPED on their way here? Did you not know that many of the young men are placed into slavery as drug dealers and mules? We have no idea the depth of the humanitarian disaster that illegal immigration caused in and out of the US. 

 

38 minutes ago, blackbird said:

But you are using that old lie of painting them all as criminals.

It is not a lie to say that all of them violated the law to get here. That's why they are an ILLEGAL ALIEN. It is not a lie that most work without approval and don't pay income taxes. 

But your 8% number is total bullshit. Many states don't report immigration status of criminals. Even the states that do, like Texas, take years to determine the status of everyone convicted. Eight percent isn't the totality of immigrants that are convicted. Eight percent is the amount that have been confirmed in the states that tried. How many millions other criminals are sitting in jails in sanctuary states? 

45 minutes ago, blackbird said:

There are many American citizens that are serious criminals too.

So that makes it ok to let criminals and terrorists to cross our border unchecked? Is that the stùpidity you want to stand behind? How about we keep crime and terrorism down by vetting immigrants rather than just opening the door and letting them all in? 

 

47 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Trump and his followers are spewing lies when they claim most are criminals.  They do that to try to justify their inhumane ICE raids and deportation.

Actually, the LAW justifies the ICE raids and deportations. No other justification is needed. Yall had the house, senate and president for two years. If you wanted more immigration you should have just passed a law. 

[blackbird]

36 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Horseshit! She married a US citizen. A marine no less. They can go to her home nation apply and she will get a green card at the very least.

You don't understand everything is changed under Trump.  His goal is to meet his quota of deporting vast numbers of undocumented migrants.

Her husband may have a job in the U.S. and supporting the family.  So how does that work if he quits his job and goes to some other country with his family?  How is he going to support them?

Also if the immigration department was willing to give her a Green card why wouldn't they just give her one now?  She was applying for a Green card and they called ICE who then came and arrested her.  Nice try anyway.  

[blackbird]

"• Native-born Americans are incarcerated nearly twice as often as undocumented immigrants, and almost four times as often as legal immigrants.
• Texas data show U.S. citizens are arrested at up to four times the rate of undocumented or legal immigrants across most crime types.
• Comprehensive studies confirm immigrants—regardless of legal status—commit significantly fewer crimes than U.S.-born citizens, contradicting common myths."

Crime rates lower among undocumented immigrants than US natives

So why the Trump MAGA race to deport as many undocumented migrants as possible?   A simple answer is politics.

[User]

12 minutes ago, blackbird said:

So why the Trump MAGA race to deport as many undocumented migrants as possible?   A simple answer is politics.

This is such a stupid, dishonest game. 

It doesn't matter what the rate of crime is... ANY amount of crime committed by those not supposed to be here is a NET increase in total crime that should never happen. 

 

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

You don't understand everything is changed under Trump.  His goal is to meet his quota of deporting vast numbers of undocumented migrants.

It is the role of the Executive branch to faithfully carry out the execution of the laws... which Trump is doing. 

 

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

That doesn't work in for undocumented migrants in the U.S.   It is impossible for the average migrant to "fix their residency" from another country.

Canada is by comparison an easy country to immigrate into.

They are not "fixing" their residency. They have no lawful residency. There is nothing to fix. They are here unlawfully. 

Then why isn't Canada opening their border with open arms asking all the illegal immigrants in America to come up there?

That should be your position. Not here arguing about what America should do. 

Edited 12 hours ago by User

[gatomontes99]

31 minutes ago, blackbird said:

"• Native-born Americans are incarcerated nearly twice as often as undocumented immigrants, and almost four times as often as legal immigrants.
• Texas data show U.S. citizens are arrested at up to four times the rate of undocumented or legal immigrants across most crime types.
• Comprehensive studies confirm immigrants—regardless of legal status—commit significantly fewer crimes than U.S.-born citizens, contradicting common myths."

Crime rates lower among undocumented immigrants than US natives

So why the Trump MAGA race to deport as many undocumented migrants as possible?   A simple answer is politics.

It is not politics:

Quote

According to CIS, “Due to delays in identification, the number of illegal immigrants arrested or incarcerated in Texas is undercounted at any given time.”

However, CIS says a caveat to the “lower rates for crimes such as robbery and drugs,” is that lesser offenses carry shorter prison sentences and are lower priority for determining immigration status and deportation.

https://texasscorecard.com/state/illegal-aliens-commit-violent-crimes-at-higher-rates-than-texans/

Your "studies" are skewed with inaccurate data. We don't even know what 2019 data is. Imagine what we fine when the 2021-2024 data  comes out. 

 

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, blackbird said:

The problem with that reasoning is huge.  Most importantly is her family.  She has a three year old and a baby as well as a husband who are U.S. citizens.  So the idea of just leaving them is incomprehensible. 

So a woman robs a bank and kills 3 people and is sentenced to life in prison. YOU come along and say "NO, LET HER GO - THE DISRUPTION OF HER FAMILY AS A RESULT OF BEING LOCKED AWAY FROM THEM IS INCOMPREHNSIBLE". 

it's exactly the same thing. And when I say it like that I'm sure you realize instantly it's absolutely ridiculous and unworkable.

I agree that the consequences of her bad decisions are tremendous. But she knew what she was doing when she started her family. She knew she wasn't legal but she chose to get married and get pregnant.

And there is no problem with my reasoning. My reasoning is absolutely factual and solid, you just don't like the outcome. But not liking the outcome does not invalidate the argument.

She knew that she was in violation of the law. She did nothing about it and let it skate for years. Then she got married knowing this and decided to have a kid and now she decides she's going to try and address it. But unfortunately at this moment the state is enforcing the law and that means she has to go bye-bye

You may not like that. She may not like that. But none of that changes the fact that this is her doing entirely and that all the state is doing is enforcing the laws that have been in place since before she even came to the country that she was aware of as an adult

Nothing else you've said invalidates that, your feelings have absolutely nothing to do with it, either we make criminals responsible for their actions or we don't. It's just that simple and nothing you've said has even attempted to address that. Your entire argument is that if you think a criminal is a nice person they shouldn't have to pay for their crimes and that's just not the way the law works

[Matthew]

On 6/23/2025 at 5:19 PM, taxme said:

You seem to be very happy with the idea that the tens of millions of illegals in America should have the right to due process. Do you know as to how long that would take to have to give all those criminal illegals due process?

Sorry friend, I'm not confident that you really know what due process is. So arguing with you about the basic reality of its existence for everyone standing in US territory is pointless.