Millions of U.S.-citizen children have undocumented parents and family members.

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Habeas corpus basically means, show us the body. You can't accuse someone of a crime if you can't show a crime has been committed. You present one case and claim millions are guilty.

Nobody is being accused of a crime. They're being accused of being in the country without lawful grounds.  That's why they're being thrown out rather than thrown in jail. They're not being punished they're being removed from property they have no right to be on. This is no different than demanding someone who broke into your home should leave. 

And habeus corpus actually just means that they have to demonstrate there's a lawful reason why they're holding the person. It has nothing to do with proving a crime has been committed - you can't do that till a judge has conducted a trial. 

This is yet another case where you have reached a decision about what you want to be true and now you're trying to work your way back to an argument that leads to that conclusion. That is sloppy thinking and it doesn't work.

 

[Aristides]

10 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Nobody is being accused of a crime. They're being accused of being in the country without lawful grounds.  That's why they're being thrown out rather than thrown in jail. They're not being punished they're being removed from property they have no right to be on. This is no different than demanding someone who broke into your home should leave. 

And habeus corpus actually just means that they have to demonstrate there's a lawful reason why they're holding the person. It has nothing to do with proving a crime has been committed - you can't do that till a judge has conducted a trial. 

This is yet another case where you have reached a decision about what you want to be true and now you're trying to work your way back to an argument that leads to that conclusion. That is sloppy thinking and it doesn't work.

 

User cites one case and condemns all illegals as criminals. He justifies deporting all because of a crime by one. So he is accusing them of a crime.

Exactly, you have to provide a reason for holding someone. User claims they can hold all responsible for the actions of one.

You guys refuse to answer the question. What will be done with these kids if their parents don't take them?

[User]

24 minutes ago, Aristides said:

User cites one case and condemns all illegals as criminals.

Well, that was not my argument, but the very fact that they are here illegally makes them criminals. 

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

User cites one case and condemns all illegals as criminals

All illegals are by definition criminals. That's why they're illegals. 

but they aren't being charged with a crime when they're being deported, they are simply being removed from property they have no lawful right to be on. If they're actually charged with a crime THEN they'll likely go to jail first and face trial with all legal rights attached, and then if found guilty incarcerated. 

But the gov't isn't charging them with a crime when they deport them, they're simply escorting them off the property. 

Quote

. He justifies deporting all because of a crime by one. So he is accusing them of a crime.

He may justify the morals behind it, but that is not an accusation of a crime,

For example, if you find someone in your house illegally, it would be fair for you to be concerned they may commit another crime. They committed one breaking in most likely, who knows what else they'll do.  So you would be entirely justified in telling them they had to leave. That doesnt' mean you're accusing them of actually committing another crime, but it's fair to say you're concerned and want to remove that possibility.

Most people would have to admit that is a fairly reasonable line of thinking.  You aren't saying he DID do something else after he broke in,  but you are saying you would like him to leave so that there's no possibility of it.

Quote

Exactly, you have to provide a reason for holding someone. User claims they can hold all responsible for the actions of one.

That is not what he is claiming and considering they are not being charged with a crime there's a great deal of doubt as to how far the duty to provide legal recourse is before they are removed. Or how extensive it should be. 

Lets not forget, they can still access the court system outside of the country and if they have been falsely removed they would have recourse in such cases. 

Quote

You guys refuse to answer the question. What will be done with these kids if their parents don't take them?

I have never refused anything of the kind, you have never asked me that 

If a child is abandoned by it's parents then a) they should be charged with a crime. IF they have already fled the country a warrant for their arrest should be posted and if they ever reenter the country they should be charged with criminal negligence and failure to provide the necessaries of life and go to jail. and..

b) the state must care for them until they are of age or depending on the state and the laws they may be placed  in  adoption or in the case where there is some living relative who  is willing to care for them the state may choose to place them with that person and grant guardianship after a period of time. 

This is the same as any abandoned child, it would be no different. 

But those parents should face extensive jail time if they ever set foot on us soil again. 

[Aristides]

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

All illegals are by definition criminals. That's why they're illegals. 

but they aren't being charged with a crime when they're being deported, they are simply being removed from property they have no lawful right to be on. If they're actually charged with a crime THEN they'll likely go to jail first and face trial with all legal rights attached, and then if found guilty incarcerated. 

But the gov't isn't charging them with a crime when they deport them, they're simply escorting them off the property. 

He may justify the morals behind it, but that is not an accusation of a crime,

For example, if you find someone in your house illegally, it would be fair for you to be concerned they may commit another crime. They committed one breaking in most likely, who knows what else they'll do.  So you would be entirely justified in telling them they had to leave. That doesnt' mean you're accusing them of actually committing another crime, but it's fair to say you're concerned and want to remove that possibility.

Most people would have to admit that is a fairly reasonable line of thinking.  You aren't saying he DID do something else after he broke in,  but you are saying you would like him to leave so that there's no possibility of it.

That is not what he is claiming and considering they are not being charged with a crime there's a great deal of doubt as to how far the duty to provide legal recourse is before they are removed. Or how extensive it should be. 

Lets not forget, they can still access the court system outside of the country and if they have been falsely removed they would have recourse in such cases. 

I have never refused anything of the kind, you have never asked me that 

If a child is abandoned by it's parents then a) they should be charged with a crime. IF they have already fled the country a warrant for their arrest should be posted and if they ever reenter the country they should be charged with criminal negligence and failure to provide the necessaries of life and go to jail. and..

b) the state must care for them until they are of age or depending on the state and the laws they may be placed  in  adoption or in the case where there is some living relative who  is willing to care for them the state may choose to place them with that person and grant guardianship after a period of time. 

This is the same as any abandoned child, it would be no different. 

But those parents should face extensive jail time if they ever set foot on us soil again. 

They haven’t fled, they are being deported and you can’t deport citizens. WTF is the matter with you? 

[CdnFox]

28 minutes ago, Aristides said:

They haven’t fled, they are being deported and you can’t deport citizens. WTF is the matter with you? 

IF they were deported and didn't take their child then they fled.  They have a duty of care for their children that's recognized in every modern country in the world. 

If they're still here and refusing to care for their child as i say, lock them up. 

There is no difference between this and any other child abandonment 

[Aristides]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

IF they were deported and didn't take their child then they fled.  They have a duty of care for their children that's recognized in every modern country in the world. 

If they're still here and refusing to care for their child as i say, lock them up. 

There is no difference between this and any other child abandonment 

Bullshit, they have been separated without their consent and what are you going to do with them if they do, you can’t deport the kid. This is too funny, now you want to lock them up which means they will still be in the country and then what will you do with the kid, put them in jail with their parents?

Maybe some of them will prefer a US jail to what may be awaiting them if they are sent back.

[User]

2 hours ago, Aristides said:

Bullshit, they have been separated without their consent

Once again, they are given a choice. To take their kids with them or leave them behind. That is consent. 

[gatomontes99]

13 hours ago, Aristides said:

You have not answered the question. What do you do with the kids if the parents don't take them? What do YOU do with them?

No. What do THEY do with them. If they choose to leave their kids behind, THEY better have a plan. 

 

[Aristides]

52 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

No. What do THEY do with them. If they choose to leave their kids behind, THEY better have a plan. 

 

Why do they need a plan? How can you force them? What are you going to do if they don’t, deport them?

[WestCanMan]

On 6/1/2025 at 9:06 AM, Deluge said:

Yes, which is why we must take every opportunity available to keep those families together. 

A family that deports together, stays together, and I 100% agree with that notion. 

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/us-citizen-children-impacted-immigration-enforcement

Left4rds like to ignore the fact that tens of thousands of children come across the border without their parents.

The border is a mess. Human trafficking is a mess. It's gonna take some time and some real effort to sort it all out. 

[gatomontes99]

5 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Why do they need a plan? How can you force them? What are you going to do if they don’t, deport them?

THEY broke the law. THEY have to deal with the consequences. The government isn't in the business of fixing their lawlessness for them.

[Deluge]

18 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Left4rds like to ignore the fact that tens of thousands of children come across the border without their parents.

The border is a mess. Human trafficking is a mess. It's gonna take some time and some real effort to sort it all out. 

Someone has to grab it by the horns, and God knows the Left stain isn't equipped to do it. 

[User]

22 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Why do they need a plan? How can you force them? What are you going to do if they don’t, deport them?

Still playing dumb I see. 

[Deluge]

15 hours ago, Aristides said:

1. User cites one case and condemns all illegals as criminals. He justifies deporting all because of a crime by one. So he is accusing them of a crime.

2. Exactly, you have to provide a reason for holding someone. User claims they can hold all responsible for the actions of one.

3. You guys refuse to answer the question. What will be done with these kids if their parents don't take them?

1. They ALL broke the law the second they crossed our border. THAT is a criminal act. They are ALL criminals. ALL illegal aliens are on the table for deportation because they committed the crime of crossing our borders illegally. This has been stated multiple times, yet you woketards continue kicking and screaming as if it's never EVER been mentioned - EVER. 

2. ALL illegal aliens can be held. We don't need explanation. We just hold. 

3. Then the parents surrender their right to them and they get put up for adoption or go into foster care. They should have their citizenships stripped because non-citizens don't beget citizens. 

Edited Tuesday at 03:42 PM by Deluge

[gatomontes99]

18 minutes ago, User said:

Still playing dumb I see. 

Playing?

Maybe. 

I just go back to my rules about liberals and emotions. They define everything by the emotion. We have given every reasonable explanation necessary. They've all been, seemingly, ignored. But the emotion of "Oh the kids, oh no, oh woe is me!" Just can't be broken. To @Aristides, the emotion defines everything.

[Aristides]

39 minutes ago, User said:

Still playing dumb I see. 

Answer the question. I don't know how many would take their kids, how many would make plans for them or how many would just leave them. All I am saying is whatever they decide to do, there is nothing you can do about it because the kids are citizens.

So what are you going to do with the kids that just get left with no plans made for them?

Edited Tuesday at 03:18 PM by Aristides

[Deluge]

25 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Answer the question. I don't know how many would take their kids, how many would make plans for them or how many would just leave them. All I am saying is whatever they decide to do, there is nothing you can do about it because the kids are citizens.

So what are you going to do with the kids that just get left with no plans made for them?

Question answered. Don't be a pu$$y. 

[User]

29 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Answer the question. I don't know how many would take their kids, how many would make plans for them or how many would just leave them. All I am saying is whatever they decide to do, there is nothing you can do about it because the kids are citizens.

So what are you going to do with the kids that just get left with no plans made for them?

I have answered the question. Many times. 

It is not up to me as an individual to figure out what I would do as an individual for all these kids. 

We have systems in place for that where the local governments handle this with foster care, adoption, or family placement. 

 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

Why do they need a plan? How can you force them? What are you going to do if they don’t, deport them?

This mess with the children is caused by the pull factor that the Dems exert on illegal immigrants: "We have free shelter, free medical, free food, sanctuary cities, we'll allow you to vote..." 

Lots of people come for free stuff. It puts people at risk crossing the desert, crossing the Rio Grande, puts them in debt to human traffickers, lands them in the poorest and most crime-riddled neighbourhoods, and then it's inevitable that sometimes adults get detained and then handling their children becomes a huge issue which there's no real win for.

All of the problems that you're talking about stem from the Dems' failed policies, lack of concern for humans, and general uselessness & stupidity.

[Aristides]

27 minutes ago, User said:

I have answered the question. Many times. 

It is not up to me as an individual to figure out what I would do as an individual for all these kids. 

We have systems in place for that where the local governments handle this with foster care, adoption, or family placement. 

 

So you will be responsible for and have to look after the kids or dump it on local governments. That's all I've been saying.

You guys were trying to say you could force the parents to take them along. You can't.

[Aristides]

24 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

This mess with the children is caused by the pull factor that the Dems exert on illegal immigrants: "We have free shelter, free medical, free food, sanctuary cities, we'll allow you to vote..." 

Lots of people come for free stuff. It puts people at risk crossing the desert, crossing the Rio Grande, puts them in debt to human traffickers, lands them in the poorest and most crime-riddled neighbourhoods, and then it's inevitable that sometimes adults get detained and then handling their children becomes a huge issue which there's no real win for.

All of the problems that you're talking about stem from the Dems' failed policies, lack of concern for humans, and general uselessness & stupidity.

The mess is caused by the constitution that says anyone born in the US is a citizen. Period.

 

We have the same law in Canada although it isn't in the Constitution. I don't agree with it, I think at least one parent should have permanent resident status or better for the child to get automatic citizenship. We don't have a big problem with illegals but birth tourism is an issue in some parts of the country. Women with advanced pregnancy come to Canada on a visitor visa, have their child to get it citizenship, then go back home. Not only does it produce citizens of convenience but it plugs up maternity wards in some hospitals forcing locals to use hospitals in a different town. 

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, Aristides said:

Bullshit, they have been separated without their consent

What shit are you trying to make up now? Nobody separated them without their consent, they said they had to leave the country and please take your child with you. You're talking about what if they abandon their child and don't take their child with them.

That is 100% with their consent. In fact it's the exact opposite of what any decent person would expect them to do

So that's 100% made up bullshit

6 hours ago, Aristides said:

This is too funny, now you want to lock them up which means they will still be in the country and then what will you do with the kid, put them in jail with their parents?

Yes, you lock up criminals. As I said deporting them wasn't a punishment for a crime. And the same thing would happen to the kid as if they fled the country without taking him, Which I described above.

 

You're trying to make the act of abandoning your child sound like the fault of someone other than the parents. It isn't, if you are asked to leave then you take your child with you because that's what parents do. The child isn't being deported, the child is simply staying with their guardians which is what the law requires

[Deluge]

7 minutes ago, Aristides said:

The mess is caused by the constitution that says anyone born in the US is a citizen. Period.

 

We have the same law in Canada although it isn't in the Constitution. I don't agree with it, I think at least one parent should have permanent resident status or better for the child to get automatic citizenship. We don't have a big problem with illegals but birth tourism is an issue in some parts of the country. Women with advanced pregnancy come to Canada on a visitor visa, have their child to get it citizenship, then go back home. Not only does it produce citizens of convenience but it plugs up maternity wards in some hospitals forcing locals to use hospitals in a different town. 

You'll have to excuse Aristides; he is infected with the woke pathogen, and is also stricken with level 5 Trump Derangement Syndrome. The two viruses together have turned him into a cucked raving Kamala Harris disciple:

 

[Aristides]

7 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

What shit are you trying to make up now? Nobody separated them without their consent, they said they had to leave the country and please take your child with you. You're talking about what if they abandon their child and don't take their child with them.

That is 100% with their consent. In fact it's the exact opposite of what any decent person would expect them to do

So that's 100% made up bullshit

Yes, you lock up criminals. As I said deporting them wasn't a punishment for a crime. And the same thing would happen to the kid as if they fled the country without taking him, Which I described above.

 

You're trying to make the act of abandoning your child sound like the fault of someone other than the parents. It isn't, if you are asked to leave then you take your child with you because that's what parents do. The child isn't being deported, the child is simply staying with their guardians which is what the law requires

The kids are citizens, they can't be forced to go with their parents and can't be held responsible for their parent's actions. I'm not making a moral judgement like you and using it as an excuse to force citizens to leave the country.

They may well feel that their child is better off abandoned in the US than taken back to a country where they have no future. But then, we will never have to make that kind of choice for our children.