PM Carney says there should be a two-state solution, which clearly contradicts the Bible

[cannuck]

Just had to see how this ridiculous post would bet spun.  Does anyone really think that a comic book written by competing religious cults based on random scripts in the defunct ancient Aramaic language is what law can be based on thousands of years later.  Extending this logic we should not be building any bridges - just have the Pope - since he is the hand of God - part the seas for us to cross.

[Barquentine]

On 5/18/2025 at 3:58 PM, blackbird said:

The Bible affirms that Israel owns their land forever, emphasizing God's sovereignty and the covenantal relationship between God and Israel. Key verses include:

Deuteronomy 28:15: "I will give you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be your God."

Genesis 15:18: "To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates.   "

Greatest con job in history. "We can kick you off your land and take it for ourselves! Why? Some old bearded guy in the sky said we could!"

[Barquentine]

On 5/18/2025 at 6:35 PM, blackbird said:

The Bible is relevant today because: 

It is the foundation of our faith and connects us with our past and points us to our future.

It informs our practices, directs our actions, and guides our life.

It protects us from wrong teaching.

It is God’s written word to us

It is the foundation of YOUR faith

It informs YOUR practices, directs YOUR actions, and guides (or misguides) YOUR life.

It DOES NOT protect us from wrong teaching

It is MAN'S written word...

[blackbird]

23 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

It is the foundation of YOUR faith

It informs YOUR practices, directs YOUR actions, and guides (or misguides) YOUR life.

It DOES NOT protect us from wrong teaching

It is MAN'S written word...

FALSE!   You enjoy freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and freedom of association and  human rights because of Judeo-Christian civilization and the truth in the Bible over the past several thousand years.

 You need to study history and see how there was no freedom or human rights the past 1700 years when the western world was ruled by a totalitarian system that claimed to be Christian but ignored the Bible.   After the Reformation 500 years ago in certain countries in Europe, democracy arrived, Parliament was developed, human rights was recognized and individual freedom was gradually brought in.  It was many Bible believers who were at the centre of bringing you the freedom you enjoy today.  Millions died in the struggle.  You should respect and appreciate where your freedom came from instead of mocking and being disrespectful.  You are accountable to God whether you accept it or not.

 

Edited 14 hours ago by blackbird

[blackbird]

55 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

Greatest con job in history. "We can kick you off your land and take it for ourselves! Why? Some old bearded guy in the sky said we could!"

You are irrational.  The land belonged to Israel going back thousands of years, and it was others who invaded Israel and deprived them of their land.  The land belongs to Israel and those around them are only interested in destroying them.   You are not alone in being an anti-Semite.  The world is full of them and has been for most of 2,000 years, resulting in the Holocaust.  You only exist because God created you.  Your time is limited in this world and there is judgment after death.  I hope you will read the King James Bible and repent.  Where you spend eternity depends on it.

Edited 14 hours ago by blackbird

[User]

8 hours ago, blackbird said:

You are definitely not interested in truth.  I gave you lots of information but you accept none of it.  Perhaps you are full of pride and just cannot admit you might have been wrong.  You refuse to accept any information I posted.   We have reached a dead end.  

I am not interested in the baseless assertions you make about me or Catholicism. 

 

10 hours ago, Gaétan said:

Jesus made difference between his Father and their father and he said that their father is the devil and when you read what Moses taught there is no doubt that it comes from the devil and Israel is the great prostitude of the revelation and the leaders of NATO are the servants of the beast. It is said that the lamb, the Palestinian people, will overcome the beast because the lamb is the king of the kings.

"their" father being the small group of religious people he was talking to... NOT all Jews. 

 

[blackbird]

53 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

Greatest con job in history. "We can kick you off your land and take it for ourselves! Why? Some old bearded guy in the sky said we could!"

I don't think you understand anything about Israel or the problems there.  You have the typical anti-Semitic western mindset.

quote

(April 9, 2025 / JNS)

Well-meaning liberal Americans sympathize with the Arab-Palestinian cause because of the group’s determined, decades-long struggle against Israel’s superior military might. Recently, that favoritism among Democrats for the first time shifted to a majority who support the Palestinians over Israel.

But if supporters of the Palestinians knew the whole truth, as the Palestinians tell it, they might reverse their sympathies. Indeed, when we listen to what the Palestinians say, and what they do, their underdog image is betrayed by belligerent goals, cruel methods and values anathema to Western civilization.

Understandably, liberals sympathize with the Palestinians out of “humanitarian” instincts. To them, the Palestinians are an oppressed group fighting bravely for their freedom. These defenders see Israel, the Palestinians’ foe, as having, for 78 years, tried to deny innocent people self-determination and their rightful share of a Middle East homeland.

But this sympathetic portrait of Arab-Palestinians is purely the product of Western projection—an imagined assignment to the Palestinians of motives, goals and values characteristic of a Western mindset. Western liberals are often shocked when they’re exposed to the portrait Palestinians paint of themselves—as Arabs and as Muslims—which embodies characteristics in direct contradiction to peace-loving Western values and aspirations.

Perhaps the most significant reason the Palestinians are still fighting is that Israel and its Western allies continue to offer what we think the Palestinians want—or should want—rather than what they actually do want. Westerners have steadfastly believed that Palestinians want a state and to live in peace with Israel, and that Israel is preventing the Palestinians from achieving this goal.

The problem turns out to be ours. Palestinians tell us what they want and pursue what they want, but we ignore their message. We prefer our enlightened translation. To gain insight into this contradiction, it helps to highlight exactly what the Palestinians tell us—and what they tell themselves—about their goals and values.

To get a handle on this disconnect, let’s compare Westerners’ two greatest myths about Palestinian goals and values with what Palestinians say and do regarding the major issues affecting peace in the Middle East.

Myth #1: Palestinians want their own state, living in peace beside Israel. The Palestinians flatly reject any Jewish rights to sovereignty in “Palestine,” because they reject the Jews’ historical connection to the Land of Israel. For example, Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas, in 2018, bizarrely called Israel a “colonial project” having no basis in history and disconnected from Judaism.

During the Camp David summit in 2000—an attempt by President Bill Clinton to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict with a two-state solution—former PLO chief Yasser Arafat asserted that “Solomon’s Temple was not in Jerusalem, but Nablus.” Clinton was flabbergasted at this outright lie, but Arafat refused to back down, just as he refused the Israeli and American offer of statehood.

Hamas, still the Palestinians’ leading political and military force, maintains in its charter that “The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf (endowment) consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgment Day.” The concept of waqf in Islam implies that it belongs to Muslims exclusively and cannot be shared with infidels, especially Jews.

Furthermore, recent polls show that most Palestinians reject a two-state solution, preferring a single, Arab-ruled state.

Given this religious and political opposition to a Jewish state, it’s no wonder Palestinians teach their children from birth to hate, conquer and kill Jews. Many videos exist on social media that show children saying they want to fight and defeat the Jews.

In short, the notion that Palestinians want a peaceful state next to Israel is betrayed by countless statements from Palestinian political and religious leaders, as well as curricula at every educational level.

Myth #2: Israel is preventing the Palestinians from forming their own state. The United Nations and Israel, with America’s backing, have offered the Palestinians many opportunities to achieve statehood, but the Palestinians and their fellow Arabs have flatly refused every time. They rejected the 1947 U.N. partition plan. Following the 1967 Six-Day War, Israel offered land it had seized in exchange for peace with its Arab neighbors. The Arab reply? The three “no’s”: no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with Israel and no peace with Israel.

In 2000, 2001 and 2008, Israel again offered the Palestinians statehood—in all of Judea and Samaria (AKA the “West Bank”), with a capital in eastern Jerusalem—but again, the Palestinians said no. Later attempts by U.S. Presidents Barack Obama and Donald Trump were also rejected.

Israel has also attempted numerous programs to assist and build trust with the Palestinians, including inviting hundreds of thousands of Palestinian workers into Israel and providing medical care, water and electricity to Palestinians.

Unfortunately, no Palestinian leader has arisen who advocates prosperity for the Palestinian people and peace with Israel. There is no Gandhi, no Mandela, no peace movement. Rather, Palestinian leaders focus on what they call the “resistance”—the codeword for continued terror, whose goal is the conquest of Israel.

Claims that Israel stands in the way of a Palestinian state are contradicted by a 78-year history of generous offers from Israel to help the Palestinians create one. However, while Israel has never started a war with the Palestinians, it has been forced to defend itself from countless attacks—from terrorist murders to outright wars—by an opponent determined to destroy it.

The liberal West would be smarter to believe what the Palestinians say and do, and not our naive projections. We want to believe that the Palestinians want a state that will exist peacefully alongside Israel. However, the Palestinians themselves tell us they reject Jewish sovereignty in what they view as exclusively Arab-Muslim land.

Westerners also assume that Israel is preventing the Palestinians from achieving self-determination. But history proves otherwise. Israel has made many offers to the Palestinians, who said “no” to each one. Indeed, more often than not, they and their Arab brethren followed up their rejections with violence and bloodshed, forcing Israel into 76 years of defensive actions.

Originally published by Facts and Logic About the Middle East (FLAME).   unquote

Western myths about Palestinians vs. what they say and do - JNS.org

 

 

Edited 14 hours ago by blackbird

[User]

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

Just had to see how this ridiculous post would bet spun.  Does anyone really think that a comic book written by competing religious cults based on random scripts in the defunct ancient Aramaic language is what law can be based on thousands of years later.  Extending this logic we should not be building any bridges - just have the Pope - since he is the hand of God - part the seas for us to cross.

Well, you went from observer to contributor of your own ridiculous garbage pretty fast. 

You don't have to believe The Bible, but you also don't have to be purposefully insulting about it either. If you really believe it was a "comic book," then your comments here are woefully ignorant. 

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

Just had to see how this ridiculous post would bet spun. 

Are you a Roman Catholic?

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

Does anyone really think that a comic book written by competing religious cults based on random scripts in the defunct ancient Aramaic language is what law can be based on thousands of years later.

Are you a Roman Catholic, either practicing or non-practicing?

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

Does anyone really think that a comic book written by competing religious cults based on random scripts in the defunct ancient Aramaic language is what law can be based on thousands of years later.

This shows your complete ignorance.  The Bible was not written and did not originate that way at all.  A complete lie from someone who doesn't have a clue.

[Barquentine]

58 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You have the typical anti-Semitic western mindset.

Not anti-semitic, anti land theft. What if somebody walked into your house with guns, kicked you out and took it over? And the police and courts backed the thieves, not you?

[Barquentine]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

You are irrational.  You only exist because God created you.  Your time is limited in this world and there is judgment after death.  I hope you will read the King James Bible and repent.  Where you spend eternity depends on it.

And I'm the irrational one?

[blackbird]

4 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

And I'm the irrational one?

 

[blackbird]

9 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

Not anti-semitic, anti land theft.

You need to do a lot of studying.  The land belongs to Israel.  But they have been willing to share a portion, but the Palestinians rejected that proposal.  They only want to destroy Israel completely.  Did you read the above article I posted from JNS?

 

[User]

40 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

Not anti-semitic, anti land theft. What if somebody walked into your house with guns, kicked you out and took it over? And the police and courts backed the thieves, not you?

Well, regardless of the religious arguments here... that is not what happened. 

 

[eyeball]

29 minutes ago, User said:

Well, regardless of the religious arguments here... that is not what happened. 

 

How do you know?

[Nefarious Banana]

10 hours ago, blackbird said:

You are definitely not interested in truth.  I gave you lots of information but you accept none of it.  Perhaps you are full of pride and just cannot admit you might have been wrong.  You refuse to accept any information I posted.   We have reached a dead end.  

Your 'truth' isn't  everyone's truth.  Sadly, you won't accept that.  There are other ways to be intouch with the creator that are not linked to organized religion.  You have your way, others have theirs.  Let it go . . .

[User]

30 minutes ago, eyeball said:

How do you know?

How do you know Unicorns do not exist?

[eyeball]

16 minutes ago, User said:

How do you know Unicorns do not exist?

No one has any evidence of their  existence.

The question stands, how do you know?

[User]

42 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No one has any evidence of their  existence.

The question stands, how do you know?

You just answered your own question. 

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Your 'truth' isn't  everyone's truth.  Sadly, you won't accept that.  There are other ways to be intouch with the creator that are not linked to organized religion.  You have your way, others have theirs.  Let it go . . .

The question is what truth do you hold?  You never said, but just take a pot shot at me.

 

What is your religious background,  Roman Catholic?

Edited 9 hours ago by blackbird

[blackbird]

6 hours ago, Barquentine said:

It is the foundation of YOUR faith

It informs YOUR practices, directs YOUR actions, and guides (or misguides) YOUR life.

It DOES NOT protect us from wrong teaching

It is MAN'S written word...

No, the Bible is addressed to you and everyone, not just me.  

How do we know that the Bible is the Word of God?

"The question of which (if any) religious text is the true word of God is of utmost importance. To avoid circular reasoning, the first question we must ask is: how would we know if God communicated in the first place? Well, God would have to communicate in a manner that people could understand, but that also means that people could make up their own messages and simply claim that they came from God. So, it seems reasonable to think that if God wanted to authenticate His communication He would have to verify it in a manner that could not be duplicated by mere humans - in other words, by miracles. This narrows the field considerably.

Beyond the evidence for the Bible’s correctness (manuscript evidence) and its historicity (archeological evidence), the most important evidence is that of its inspiration. The real determination of the Bible’s claim to absolute inspired truth is in its supernatural evidence, including prophecy. God used prophets to speak and write down His Word and God uses miracles like fulfilled prophecy to authenticate His messengers. For example, in Genesis 12:7, God promises that the land of Israel was to be for Abraham and his descendants. In 1948 Israel was returned back to the Jewish people for the second time in history. This may not seem so astonishing until you realize that no nation in the history of the world has been scattered from its homeland and returned! Israel has done it twice. The book of Daniel predicts with accuracy the coming of the four great kingdoms from Babylon, to Medo-Persia, to Greece, to Rome centuries before some of those kingdoms came on the scene with details concerning how they would rule and be broken. This includes the reigns of Alexander the Great and Antiochus Epiphanies.

In Ezekiel 26 we can see in astonishing detail how the city of Tyre was to be destroyed, how it would be torn down, and how its debris would be thrown into the sea. When Alexander the Great marched on that area, he encountered a group of people holed up in a tower on an island off the coast near there. He could not cross the sea, so he could not fight those in the tower. Rather than wait them out, the proud conqueror had his army throw stones into the sea to build a land bridge to the tower. It worked. His army crossed the sea and overthrew the occupants of the stronghold. But where did he get so much stone? The rocks that were used for the land bridge were the leftover rubble from the city of Tyre . . . its stones cast into the sea!

There are so many prophecies concerning Christ (over 270!) that it would take more than a few screens worth of space to list them all. Further, Jesus would have had no control over many of them such as His birthplace or time of birth. Second, the odds of one man accidentally fulfilling even 16 of these are 1 in 10^45. How many is that? For comparison, there are less than 10^82 atoms in the entire universe! And Jesus, who affirmed the Bible as the Word of God, proved His reliability and deity by His resurrection (an historical fact not easily ignored).

Now consider the Quran - its author, Muhammad, performed no miracles to back up his message (even when he was asked to by his followers - Sura 17:91-95; 29:47-51). Only in much later tradition (the Hadith) do any alleged miracles even show up and these are all quite fanciful (like Muhammad cutting the moon in half) and have zero reliable testimony to back them up. Further, the Quran makes clear historical errors. Muslims believe the Bible is inspired but with some errors from editing (Sura 2:136 as well as Suras 13, 16, 17, 20, 21, 23, 25). The question they cannot adequately answer is: "When was the Bible corrupted?" If they say before 600 A.D. then how can the Quran admonish believers to read it? If they claim it was after 600 A.D., then they have jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire, for we have absolutely no doubt as to the accuracy of biblical manuscripts from at least the 3rd century forward. Even if Christianity were false, the Quran still has an insurmountable problem because it makes judgments against Christians for believing things that they do not (nor have they ever) believed. For example, the Quran teaches that Christians believe the Trinity is the Father, the Mother (Mary), and the Son (Sura 5:73-75, 116), and the Quran also teaches that Christians believe that God had sex with Mary to have a son (Suras 2:116; 6:100-101; 10:68; 16:57; 19:35; 23:91; 37:149-151; 43:16-19). If the Quran is really from God, then it should at least be able to accurately report what Christians believe.

Joseph Smith, the author of the Book of Mormon, tried to do some miracles such as prophecy (a test for a true prophet in Deuteronomy 18:21-22) but failed several times. He foretold of Christ’s second coming in History of the Church (HC) 5:336: “There are those of the rising generation who shall not taste death till Christ comes.“ Smith consistently taught that the coming of Christ was near. In 1835, he spoke of “the coming of the Lord, which was nigh—even fifty-six years should wind up the scene“ (HC 2:182). He also claimed that, while praying, “a voice said unto me, ’My son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years of age, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man’“ (ibid., see also also D&C 130:14–17). From these pronouncements, Smith’s followers began looking for the Lord to come about 1890. Jesus did not return in 1890, and the Mormon church does not claim that He did. Nor has it occurred since. He also prophesied that several cities would be destroyed in Doctrine and Covenants (D&C) 84:114-115. New York, Albany and Boston were to be destroyed if they rejected the gospel according to Smith. Joseph Smith himself went to New York, Albany, and Boston and preached there. These cities did not accept his gospel, yet they have not been destroyed. Another famous false prophecy of Joseph Smith was his "END OF ALL NATIONS" in D&C 87 concerning the rebellion of South Carolina in the war between the states. The South was supposed to call on Great Britain for aid, and as a result war would be poured out upon all nations; slaves would revolt; the inhabitants of the earth would mourn; famine, plague, earthquake, thunder, lightning, and a full end of all nations would result. The South finally did revolt in 1861, but the slaves did not rise up, war was not poured out upon all nations, there was no worldwide famine, plague, earthquake, etc., and there was no resulting "end of all nations."

The collection of writings that Protestants call the Apocrypha (hidden writings), Roman Catholics call the deuterocanonical (later or second canon) books. These books were written between 300 B.C. and 100 A.D., the Intertestamental Period between the inspired writings of God’s Prophets in the Old Testament and those of the Apostles and their contemporaries in the New Testament. These were "infallibly" accepted into the Bible by the Roman Catholic Church in 1546 at the Council of Trent. Now the Apocrypha would be covered under the evidence for the Bible if these writings were truly inspired - but evidence seems to indicate that they are not. In the Bible we find prophets of God whose messages are ratified by miracles or prophecy that comes true, and whose message is immediately accepted by the people (Deut 31:26; Josh. 24:26; 1 Samuel 10:25; Daniel 9:2; Col. 4:16; 2 Peter 3:15-16). What we find in the apocrypha is just the opposite - no apocryphal book was written by a prophet. None of these books were included in the Hebrew Scriptures. There is no ratification of the authors of any apocryphal book. No apocryphal book is cited as authoritative by later Biblical writers. There is no fulfilled prophecy in any apocryphal book. Finally, Jesus, who quoted from every section of Old Testament Scripture, never once quoted from the apocrypha. Neither did any of His disciples.

The Bible so far outshines every competing source for being God’s revelation that if it is not God’s Word, it would seem impossible to choose among the leftovers. If the Bible is not God’s Word, then we have been left with no clear criteria by which to know what might be."

How do we know that the Bible is the Word of God, and not the Apocrypha, the Qur'an, the Book of Mormon, etc.? | GotQuestions.org

The prophecies in the Bible, which were later fulfilled, prove the truth of the Bible, in English, the King James Version, beyond any doubt.  This is supernatural or miraculous proof.  This proves the skeptics do not have a leg to stand on.

Edited 8 hours ago by blackbird

[Nefarious Banana]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

The question is what truth do you hold?  You never said, but just take a pot shot at me.

 

What is your religious background,  Roman Catholic?

What my truth/religious background is . . . is of no concern to you.  No 'pot shots'were for you personally, only you the zealot.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, User said:

You just answered your own question. 

You're suggesting the standard for evidence required to prove the existence of unicorns is equal to that of proving the Zionist expulsion of Palestinians was a happy event attended by rainbows and lollipops?

Stands to reason, you are a Christian after all.

So let's see your evidence.

[User]

50 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You're suggesting the standard for evidence required to prove the existence of unicorns is equal to that of proving the Zionist expulsion of Palestinians was a happy event attended by rainbows and lollipops?

Stands to reason, you are a Christian after all.

So let's see your evidence.

I am not suggesting anything. Feel free to go back to where this discussion started to see my original comment if you are confused.