Even the Whoopi is Starting To See the Wisdom of Small Government

[gatomontes99]

This is the essence of small government. This is the heart of local politics. When I voted for Trump i was 1 of 152 million. When I voted for Abbott I was 1 of 8 million. When I voted for my Texas rep, I was one of 50,000. When I voted for myor of my town, I was 1 of 609.

You have the most freedom and the biggest say in the smallest elections. I can go talk to my mayor and he will listen. That's how I got our little league baseball field fixed.

Smaller is better for you. You have a bigger voice. With no department of education, you can go to the school board and tell them you want better online learning tools or better lunches or higher paid teachers and they can do something about it. As it stands right now, there are so many strings attached that these school boards can't change where the money goes. Our school had $1.35 million from the state and federal government for grass. They don't even have enough grass to justify a riding lawn mower. But the school board can't divert the money because that would violate federal mandates and they'd lose the rest of the money. So they spend $1.35 on a small patch of grass. It looks great BTW.

 

[robosmith]

Quote

So they spend $1.35 on a small patch of grass. It looks great BTW.

AKA, a whole thread about $1.35 worth of grass which "looks great." LMAO

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, gatomontes99 said:

This is the essence of small government. This is the heart of local politics. When I voted for Trump i was 1 of 152 million. When I voted for Abbott I was 1 of 8 million. When I voted for my Texas rep, I was one of 50,000. When I voted for myor of my town, I was 1 of 609.

You have the most freedom and the biggest say in the smallest elections. I can go talk to my mayor and he will listen. That's how I got our little league baseball field fixed.

Smaller is better for you. You have a bigger voice. With no department of education, you can go to the school board and tell them you want better online learning tools or better lunches or higher paid teachers and they can do something about it. As it stands right now, there are so many strings attached that these school boards can't change where the money goes. Our school had $1.35 million from the state and federal government for grass. They don't even have enough grass to justify a riding lawn mower. But the school board can't divert the money because that would violate federal mandates and they'd lose the rest of the money. So they spend $1.35 on a small patch of grass. It looks great BTW.

 

All the challenges that I think some on the left are beginning to realize that if you go too far with some of this stuff you open the door to someone like trump coming in and ripping it all apart and the public backing it. If you want to build something you need to not be so crazy and you are far better off to control it yourself rather than wait for the government to hold your hand and wipe your nose.

If trump's efforts get nothing more than that across the people it will be valuable.

55 minutes ago, robosmith said:

AKA, a whole thread about $1.35 worth of grass which "looks great." LMAO

Yes, we know we know. You don't care about any vegetation in the world unless it's zucchini.

(here's a picture of robosmith and his first wife  

 

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, robosmith said:

AKA, a whole thread about $1.35 worth of grass which "looks great." LMAO

What it's really about is the mythology of how American political economy works.

 

There's a massive private government that runs things invisibly.  I'd be glad with a smaller government that did away with both public and private.

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

What it's really about is the mythology of how American political economy works.

 

There's a massive private government that runs things invisibly.  I'd be glad with a smaller government that did away with both public and private.

So...you approve of what DOGE and Trump are doing then?

[Michael Hardner]

26 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

So...you approve of what DOGE and Trump are doing then?

Believe it or not, I approve of the principle behind it and everyone who lives in the west should.

Someone needs to pull apart, simplify, and retune government so that it's simple enough for the average person to understand.  It's a fundamental problem, and adds to the general strife, that nobody can authoritatively say WTF is actually happening.   We end up relying on tribal authorities, and objectivity becomes too expensive.

Now, the methods that DOGE are using seem (SEEM) to be infantile.  As someone who has spent their career working it large organization IT, I can authoritatively tell you that the narrative coming from both sides is riddled with misinfo/disinfo.  NOBODY can show up on day one and have the effect that is claimed... claimed by BOTH SIDES.  And this is evidence of my point in the paragraph above.

But the layoffs are real, and the cavalier approach are dully irresponsible so I would put a halt to it and restart with a process that is open, collaborative and agile.  Believe it or not the workers themselves are likely to have the best ideas as to how to improve things, in my experience.  But you have to change the culture.

[Deluge]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Believe it or not, I approve of the principle behind it and everyone who lives in the west should.

Someone needs to pull apart, simplify, and retune government so that it's simple enough for the average person to understand.  It's a fundamental problem, and adds to the general strife, that nobody can authoritatively say WTF is actually happening.   We end up relying on tribal authorities, and objectivity becomes too expensive.

Now, the methods that DOGE are using seem (SEEM) to be infantile.  As someone who has spent their career working it large organization IT, I can authoritatively tell you that the narrative coming from both sides is riddled with misinfo/disinfo.  NOBODY can show up on day one and have the effect that is claimed... claimed by BOTH SIDES.  And this is evidence of my point in the paragraph above.

But the layoffs are real, and the cavalier approach are dully irresponsible so I would put a halt to it and restart with a process that is open, collaborative and agile.  Believe it or not the workers themselves are likely to have the best ideas as to how to improve things, in my experience.  But you have to change the culture.

But first you trim the fat. And when I say fat, I mean all the work from home slobs binge watching their favorite programs.

Cut the fat, then get to work on streamlining agencies or cutting them completely, and I believe that's what DOGE has already been doing. 

[User]

7 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'd be glad with a smaller government that did away with both public and private.

OK... how exactly does this work? What do you mean by do away with private? Private what?

 

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Deluge said:

1. But first you trim the fat. And when I say fat, I mean all the work from home slobs binge watching their favorite programs.

2. Cut the fat, then get to work on streamlining agencies or cutting them completely, and I believe that's what DOGE has already been doing. 

1. Most large organizations measure productivity via metrics.  To learn the systems would probably take a few weeks, then you could try to analyze it but you'd have to be careful because individual metrics for high performers might not reflect their contributions.  Cross-referencing that with performance reports might be the best way.  Given the speed of the reports on DOGE, I don't believe either side had knowledge of what DOGE was really doing.   At least what they reported probably doesn't reflect that.

2. Maybe they have.  But we can only guess based on reports.  They would be stupid to tell the press what they are really doing.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, User said:

1. What do you mean by do away with private? Private what?

2. OK... how exactly does this work?

1. I mean private services that parallel public services and even those who make rules, do lobbying to make things worse for the public.  Like corporate lawyers who create interest groups, lobby groups and have their hooks in legal frameworks around Intellectual Property for example.

2. I don't think it's been done successfully yet.  Maybe DOGE could ACTUALLY be a first step, but to my mind they would have to be stopped and have the organization do a regroup and try again.  Maybe that actually has happened because DOGE is pretty quiet right now.  I assume that Republicans are getting calls from old people who can't get through to the Social Security lines or something, who knows.

How would *I* do it ?  I would seed a parallel organization with top leadership from the private sector.  Like a Musk but far far less crazy... they would be a mix of people with institutional knowledge, but those folks would only be advisors... and people with contemporary management experience as well as new hires.  They would be instructed to try things, fail quickly, and iterate and improve...  Once these organizations started to get traction, probably 1-2 years, I would grow them and shrink the existing organizations.

Now... the minute ... the very second I hear someone in government, or god-forbig an actual politican, submitting a suggestion close to this I will enthusiastically support them.  And in case you haven't noticed, I do not enthusiastically support any politician or party right now.  I'm enthusiastic about a few popular cultural channels and platforms, and some philosophical movements but that's pretty much it.

 

[robosmith]

10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

What it's really about is the mythology of how American political economy works.

 

There's a massive private government that runs things invisibly.  I'd be glad with a smaller government that did away with both public and private.

Are you talking about Canada? WTH is private government? The collaboration of politicians in Congress?

Have you ever heard of the Congressional Record?

Government has always been public, and eliminating "both public and private" would be anarchy.

[Nationalist]

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Believe it or not, I approve of the principle behind it and everyone who lives in the west should.

Someone needs to pull apart, simplify, and retune government so that it's simple enough for the average person to understand.  It's a fundamental problem, and adds to the general strife, that nobody can authoritatively say WTF is actually happening.   We end up relying on tribal authorities, and objectivity becomes too expensive.

Now, the methods that DOGE are using seem (SEEM) to be infantile.  As someone who has spent their career working it large organization IT, I can authoritatively tell you that the narrative coming from both sides is riddled with misinfo/disinfo.  NOBODY can show up on day one and have the effect that is claimed... claimed by BOTH SIDES.  And this is evidence of my point in the paragraph above.

But the layoffs are real, and the cavalier approach are dully irresponsible so I would put a halt to it and restart with a process that is open, collaborative and agile.  Believe it or not the workers themselves are likely to have the best ideas as to how to improve things, in my experience.  But you have to change the culture.

Ok.

So here's the issue. A bureaucracy may show a good metric, but it's purpose is asinine. For instance, the bureaucracy responsible for spreading DEI. They may have great efficiency, but the entire premise is dumb.

Also, collaborate with people who's jobs are on the line? Lol...ya...that'll work.

Brandon was pumping government employment like a mad man, in order to show positive employment numbers. I'd bet most of those he hired, are just a drain on the public coffers.

Finally..."ya gits wut ya pays fer". It is and has been for a very long time, a pain-point for the public that government spends their money on really dumb sh1t. So although many do not like the methods being employed, it's a natural reaction to the gross abuse that's been the norm for decades.

Have you ever heard a politician apologize for spending the USA...or Canada for that matter...into a pit?

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, robosmith said:

1. Are you talking about Canada?
2. WTH is private government? The collaboration of politicians in Congress?
3. Government has always been public, and eliminating "both public and private" would be anarchy.

1. Not as much, no.
2. Private police, private legal apparatus and authorities.  Elections are privately funded by the corporate elite and the system is now set up to respond to their needs.
3. Not eliminating but right-sizing.  

28 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

1. So here's the issue. A bureaucracy may show a good metric, but it's purpose is asinine. For instance, the bureaucracy responsible for spreading DEI. They may have great efficiency, but the entire premise is dumb.

2. Also, collaborate with people who's jobs are on the line? Lol...ya...that'll work.

3. ...a pain-point for the public that government spends their money on really dumb sh1t.  

 

1. The bureaucracy just does as they were told.  If the leadership didn't agree to DEI then would not have done it, which is why it's going away now: Trump is making it happen.

2. You're stuck otherwise.

3. I'm not arguing that at all.

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Not as much, no.
2. Private police, private legal apparatus and authorities.  Elections are privately funded by the corporate elite and the system is now set up to respond to their needs.
3. Not eliminating but right-sizing.  

1. The bureaucracy just does as they were told.  If the leadership didn't agree to DEI then would not have done it, which is why it's going away now: Trump is making it happen.

2. You're stuck otherwise.

3. I'm not arguing that at all.

1. That's semi-irrelevant. Sure the politicians who did this should be fire. At least Brandon was. More will follow.

2. Not stuck at all. Nobody...or at least most people...don't enjoy firing people. But it happens and because of what's been done, it's gonna happen wholesale.

3. Good.

[josej]

On 4/16/2025 at 6:47 AM, CdnFox said:

All the challenges that I think some on the left are beginning to realize that if you go too far with some of this stuff you open the door to someone like trump coming in and ripping it all apart and the public backing it. If you want to build something you need to not be so crazy and you are far better off to control it yourself rather than wait for the government to hold your hand and wipe your nose.

If trump's efforts get nothing more than that across the people it will be valuable.

Very true point - it is at the local level where we have the most real influence. 

[CdnFox]

11 hours ago, josej said:

Very true point - it is at the local level where we have the most real influence. 

I have always said that wise lefties would push for conservative gov'ts federally and left wing ndp gov'ts provincially or at the city level. Generally speaking that works best and they get a lot of their social agenda done but the more right of center people are still happy and generally don't fight it because federally they don't feel 'oppressed'.