Hudson's Bay, Canadian Businesses

[500channelsurfer]

Hudson's Bay is failing. This is not the first time a major Canadian chain has ceased operations.

Are Canadians bad at business?

I remember shopping at Zellers and Wal-Marts in Canada, and the customer service was always terrible (long lines, lack of customer care). There is a mindset of just following procedure and no one being open to change or even suggestions. When Target briefly entered Canada, store shelves remained half empty for much of its tenure as if in a communist country.

Even our national airline, Air Canada, was allowed to takeover rival Canadian Airlines, and then filed for bankruptcy three years later. Regulators continue to allow consolidation in media and telecommunications sectors despite failures like this.

Edited March 18 by 500channelsurfer

[TreeBeard]

18 minutes ago, 500channelsurfer said:

Are Canadians bad at business?

The Bay is owned by an American…. sooo….   maybe that’s the wrong question to ask?

Edited March 18 by TreeBeard

[herbie]

Kind of like when Tim Hortons turned to shit when bought out with weak coffee and soggy reheated donuts. New owners with 0 long term vision.

It is a sign of the times, department stores are passe.
Sure Canada lost Eatons and Woodwards, but Sears collapsed like a house of cards too. I think their failing was to have the Bay concentrate on higher end products while banadoning Zellers, conceding that market to WalMart.
It kind of goes along with the death of Malls, the first mall where i grew up is being ripped down for highrises right now. One by one their cornerstone tenants are disappearing due to outrageous leasing costs.

[Barquentine]

47 minutes ago, 500channelsurfer said:

Hudson's Bay is failing. This is not the first time a major Canadian chain has ceased operations.

Are Canadians bad at business?

Just a sign of the times. Online shopping, the expense of brick and mortar, the expense of supply lines...

 

49 minutes ago, 500channelsurfer said:

Even our national airline, Air Canada, was allowed to takeover rival Canadian Airlines, and then filed for bankruptcy three years later

Too big a country, too few people. 

[500channelsurfer]

2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

The Bay is owned by an American…. sooo….   maybe that’s the wrong question to ask?

But the Bay was operating in Canada, therefore it is a reflection of our economy, and our employees and customers. Even when American-owned, some of the management must be in Canada.

1 hour ago, herbie said:

It is a sign of the times, department stores are passe.

Some businesses such as Simons have adapted with the times. I worry Canadian businesses more than others may be less willing to adapt.

1 hour ago, Barquentine said:

Too big a country, too few people. 

Donald Trump could use this type of thinking as an argument for taking over our economy. There must be a way Canada can work as a country with our own businesses. Companies like CN, CP, Gildan, Shopify, Magna do very well.

 

[TreeBeard]

4 minutes ago, 500channelsurfer said:

But the Bay was operating in Canada, therefore it is a reflection of our economy, and our employees and customers. Even when American-owned, some of the management must be in Canada.

You have no idea who is managing the Bay and making the poor business decisions.  Ultimately, a business’ success or failure is on the person that owns it, wouldn’t you agree?  
 

I don’t blame Brazilians if a Canadian mining company operating in Brazil goes broke.  

[Michael Hardner]

16 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

 

I don’t blame Brazilians if a Canadian mining company operating in Brazil goes broke.  

I think I was working at their headquarters at Brampton for a while.  There was a lot of old Canadian Legacy at play, clearly, in the stiff bureaucracy and the plodding slowness of their decisions.

They were doomed anyway.

I want to add, pointing fingers such as trying to examine philosophy of causality and free choice is kind of a waste of energy.

HBCs management failed.  Musk kills children.  Some things just are.  You can scratch your chin and contemplate the universe all you want but it's not helpful, any more than over-moralizing does.

[500channelsurfer]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

There was a lot of old Canadian Legacy at play, clearly, in the stiff bureaucracy and the plodding slowness of their decisions.

pointing fingers such as trying to examine philosophy of causality and free choice is kind of a waste of energy.

The only thing people don't learn from history is that history repeats. Past failures can be examined in order to better the future.

If this Canadian Legacy mindset is engrained in Canadian businesses and causing failures like this, maybe there is a way to change this. 

23 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

You have no idea who is managing the Bay and making the poor business decisions.  Ultimately, a business’ success or failure is on the person that owns it, wouldn’t you agree?  

Yes. I was not paying attention to the management of The Bay. I only assume the US owner was taking at least some advice from Bay employees in Canada.

In cases like this, maybe there should be a debate on foreign ownership. We have incredible protectionism in some sectors and virtually none in others. We may need to re-balance?

The Bay was founded in 1670. Canada looks stupid when a company like this fails. Personally I am not for government bailouts. Maybe Michael Hardner has identified another aspect Canadian business culture that needs to change.

[TreeBeard]

7 minutes ago, 500channelsurfer said:

The Bay was founded in 1670. Canada looks stupid when a company like this fails.

Really?  Companies come and go all the time.  In 400 years are people in Canada going to be upset about Home Hardware going away because the yard-bots have built-in tools and people no longer dig their own gardens or fix their own roof leaks?

You seem very emotional about this. 

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, 500channelsurfer said:

1. The only thing people don't learn from history is that history repeats. Past failures can be examined in order to better the future.

2. If this Canadian Legacy mindset is engrained in Canadian businesses and causing failures like this, maybe there is a way to change this. 

3. Yes. I was not paying attention to the management of The Bay. I only assume the US owner was taking at least some advice from Bay employees in Canada.

4. In cases like this, maybe there should be a debate on foreign ownership. We have incredible protectionism in some sectors and virtually none in others. We may need to re-balance?

5. The Bay was founded in 1670. Canada looks stupid when a company like this fails. Personally I am not for government bailouts. Maybe Michael Hardner has identified another aspect Canadian business culture that needs to change.

1. People say that, but I don't know if there are examples that either support it or refute it.

2. When it comes to people there's always change.  Texas and Alberta were once solidly left wing.

3. We'd need to look at inside information to make a decision.

4. I'd welcome something like a true public forum for such discussions.

5. Lots of institutions die for good reasons too.  Like the great telegraph companies, Honest Eds, the Catholic Church.

...

 

 

[Michael Hardner]

9 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Really?  Companies come and go all the time.  In 400 years are people in Canada going to be upset about Home Hardware going away because the yard-bots have built-in tools and people no longer dig their own gardens or fix their own roof leaks?

You seem very emotional about this. 

More like four years 

...

[herbie]

The British and Dutch East India Companies are gone too. Sears failed, Target failed here almost in an instant. As I pointed out, land values preclude a good return from a huge department store, even with small space renters like Radio Shack, the Source, Atmosphers, Rickis failing over high rents even with the Bay owning the whole mall the ROI on the property was worth more. How many highrise rental units guaranteeing >$2000 a month each could be built on that same space?
 

HBC made a bad decision to invest more in department stores rather than oil & gas. That would've been a 'natural progression' for a fur trader.