Weaklings in the making?

[betsy]

I cannot think of any apt title for this topic, but I have an idea what I wish to say. It is how we, as a society, handle the realities of life. And passing it on to our future generation.

One big thing for me is how we handle death.

I had always thought that we have this built-in defense mechanism that kicks in automatically when we're faced with death of a loved one.

I've always thought that grief and obstacles help build character.

I thought counselling is for those who have a hard time dealing and getting over the death of a loved one. Those who find it hard to cope. Those caught trapped in the web of despair.

But now, just about everyone who comes anywhere near any death...be it that of a neighbor...or a schoolmate...need to be given "counselling."

I wouldn't be surprised to know that soldiers undergo this "counselling" too, given that this sudden need seemed to be the brainchild of a liberal thinking.

What is this counselling for?

Aren't we going overboard with this?

[lost&outofcontrol]

I cannot think of any apt title for this topic, but I have an idea what I wish to say. It is how we, as a society, handle the realities of life. And passing it on to our future generation.

One big thing for me is how we handle death.

I had always thought that we have this built-in defense mechanism that kicks in automatically when we're faced with death of a loved one.

I've always thought that grief and obstacles help build character.

I thought counselling is for those who have a hard time dealing and getting over the death of a loved one. Those who find it hard to cope. Those caught trapped in the web of despair.

But now, just about everyone who comes anywhere near any death...be it that of a neighbor...or a schoolmate...need to be given "counselling."

I wouldn't be surprised to know that soldiers undergo this "counselling" too, given that this sudden need seemed to be the brainchild of a liberal thinking.

What is this counselling for?

Aren't we going overboard with this?

OK

My grandfather was in the korean war and let me tell you, when he came back he never was the same person (My grand mother would tell us stories). Wait until you face death yourself then come back and lecture us on weaklings. Wait until you have the opportunity to take someone's life.

[BubberMiley]

I've always thought that grief and obstacles help build character.

The sort of character that would call people suffering from grief and post-traumatic stress "weaklings?"

[geoffrey]

Yup Betsy, I see your point, but maybe our care for those grieving is actually better than the former methods of just let them cry it out a bit.

I think its more humane to offer them assistance. How can it hurt?

[betsy]

I've always thought that grief and obstacles help build character.

The sort of character that would call people suffering from grief and post-traumatic stress "weaklings?"

I did not call anyone weaklings. If you'll notice, there's a question mark after my title.

[betsy]

Yup Betsy, I see your point, but maybe our care for those grieving is actually better than the former methods of just let them cry it out a bit.

I think its more humane to offer them assistance. How can it hurt?

But what do you think about the need for counselling for someone not even related to whoever dies?

Shouldn't we let the natural skills that nature had provided us to kick in naturally?

[betsy]

OK

My grandfather was in the korean war and let me tell you, when he came back he never was the same person (My grand mother would tell us stories). Wait until you face death yourself then come back and lecture us on weaklings. Wait until you have the opportunity to take someone's life.

This topic is not meant to lecture you.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if everyone end up relying on counselling for just about every traumas they face...aren't we rendering our own natural mechanism obsolete?

The comparison I could think of would be as that of a child who cries everytime he falls down. If someone keeps running to him to pick him up and"soothe" him, he ends up expecting and relying on these soothings each and everytime he falls. Whereas he learns to pick himself up and resumes play if no one comes running to him.

[betsy]

I would like to stress that I do understand and also agree that some cases, people do need counselling.

It's just that it seems that everyone is given this now. It makes me wonder if this is a created "need" so as to make the business of counselling lucrative.

[uOttawaMan]

OK

My grandfather was in the korean war and let me tell you, when he came back he never was the same person (My grand mother would tell us stories). Wait until you face death yourself then come back and lecture us on weaklings. Wait until you have the opportunity to take someone's life.

This topic is not meant to lecture you.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if everyone end up relying on counselling for just about every traumas they face...aren't we rendering our own natural mechanism obsolete?

The comparison I could think of would be as that of a child who cries everytime he falls down. If someone keeps running to him to pick him up and"soothe" him, he ends up expecting and relying on these soothings each and everytime he falls. Whereas he learns to pick himself up and resumes play if no one comes running to him.

How many of our "natural" mechanisms have been replaced or improved already through techonology or new methods?

Medicine is not a natural mechanism, neither is dentistry, perhaps people should just die young and have there teeth fall out, because that would be the natural way of things?

[Leafless]

betsy

You wrote- " It makes me wonder if this is a created need so as to make the buisness of councilling lucrative."

Could be.

But maybe in the long run it's just cheaper than providing someone extended sick leave or early retirement and compensation for extreme stress related illness or nervous breakdown.

[newbie]

I assume that you are talking about post traumatic stress disorder Betsy. It is a real disorder and is nothing to be sneered at. I have seen the effects of counselling for persons suffering from this. I think you exaggerate the need for counselling. That service is available usually when a tragic death or circumstance happens, such as childhood sexual abuse, rape, etc. I don't think it is a "Liberal" thing when a soldier can talk about his feelings after witnessing 4 of his buddies killed in front of him.

http://www.ncptsd.va.gov/facts/general/fs_what_is_ptsd.html

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/post-trau...isorder/DS00246

[BubberMiley]

I did not call anyone weaklings. If you'll notice, there's a question mark after my title.

Oh, very clever. That question mark totally gets you off the hook.

[betsy]

I did not call anyone weaklings. If you'll notice, there's a question mark after my title.

Oh, very clever. That question mark totally gets you off the hook.

Well, it is a question I'm asking. Further more I also explained I could not think of any apt title at the moment.

So it's not a question of "getting off the hook." It's a matter of being plain and simple.

I'm telling you, excessive use of that Liberal tin cap have negative side-effects.

[margrace]

Probably everyone on here is right, yes it may be the making of, once again, a paid position. But it is needed in a lot of situations. Our group, Palliative Care, offers grief support, not counselling, we leave that to the professionals. We do it on a trained voluntery basis.

People get stuck in a mental situation and need the ability to take it out and look at it. We present situations or ideas for them to consider and then we just listen as the person works it out. Children on the other hand get some pretty weird ideas of what is going on. They take on responsibilities for things that happen and need someone to show them that it wasn't their fault.

I may get myself into problems for this but I think that the Legions have a place for returned military people. This too is a counselling situation even if lots of time it is alchohol that loosens things up.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear newbie,

I assume that you are talking about post traumatic stress disorder Betsy. It is a real disorder and is nothing to be sneered at.

It is real, but exaggerated. Only very recently has it become labeled as 'a disability', for millenia it was simply 'tough times'.

My father got his arm blown off in a naval battle in WWII, and whatdid he get? A new suit after discharge. The DVA and WarAmps were incredibly supportive (and still are), but they gave him things (prostheses, etc) to help him get back to work, not excuses so he didn't have to.

He taught me a lot, the best of which were "Persevere, and think of the things you can do". He taught me that even people with disabilities can do more than people without, if the spirit is there. I can tie my shoes with one hand, something most people would think impossible (or at least very difficult) but he did it because he had the will to do it.

[sharkman]

I think it goes too far sometimes. There was a suicide at one of our local high schools and the school board offered grief counselling for the student body. Maybe I've got it backwards, but wouldn't it be more effective for the student in need to be comforted by their owns parents/loved ones than some stranger in a spare office? You can't grief counsel someone anymore unless you 'learn' how in a university program?

[BubberMiley]

You can't grief counsel someone anymore unless you 'learn' how in a university program?

It's like those folks that said I shouldn't operate on my dog and should take him to a fancy veterinarian instead.

[newbie]

theloniusfleabag:

Only a qualified psychiatrist can diagnose PTSD so I don't see how that can be exaggerated. Sure, I know all about the "suck it up" and "bury it" mentality of the generation that went through WW2, boys/men don't cry and all that crap. We've come a long way and the type of attitude you're suggesting is to deny the advances made in Mental Health. We all have to deal with stuff, but some of us get dealt an emotional burden far greater than we can handle at certain times in our lives. Appropriate psychological counselling and psychiatric medication have been proven effective. Sometimes having the "will" to get on is beyond our control.

[sharkman]

You can't grief counsel someone anymore unless you 'learn' how in a university program?

It's like those folks that said I shouldn't operate on my dog and should take him to a fancy veterinarian instead.

I side with the folks on that one too. Put the dog down if he's suffering instead of sending some vet's kid to college, and get a new one.