eyeball Posted February 14 Report Posted February 14 2 hours ago, carepov said: Why is this war any different than all the other wars? It's not a really a war at all, it's the subjugation of a people resisting their annexation. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
carepov Posted February 14 Report Posted February 14 1 hour ago, eyeball said: It's not a really a war at all, it's the subjugation of a people resisting their annexation. Ah, I see, it was reverse psychology, the forcible evacuation of all Jewish settlers from Gaza in 2005 was their way of annexing the territory. Oh, those crafty Jews... Quote
eyeball Posted February 14 Report Posted February 14 Just now, carepov said: Ah, I see, it was reverse psychology, the forcible evacuation of all Jewish settlers from Gaza in 2005 was their way of annexing the territory. Oh, those crafty Jews... No that's not it. I'm sure you know what I mean but don't care. In any case Palestinians will likely still be caring for generations just like the last couple generations. Nothing's changed. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 14 Report Posted February 14 3 hours ago, carepov said: War refugees are a sad reality. My understanding is that Egypt is legally and morally obligated to take in Gazan refugees. They could then apply for residency like the >20 million refugees from wars around the world. https://www.statista.com/statistics/272999/refugees-by-source-country/ Why is this war any different than all the other wars? Egypt is at bursting point, physically, economically, politically. There is a reason El-Sisi did not want to be associated with Trump’s strange musings. It’s highly unpopular in Egypt for multiple reasons. The US policy on Palestine/Israel is still a two state solution so in the first instance these people should be moved, if at all, to Palestine. Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 14 Report Posted February 14 Given that the US helped so much in demolishing the place, that’s where donations should start if they are to come from anywhere. Quote
eyeball Posted February 14 Report Posted February 14 27 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Given that the US helped so much in demolishing the place, that’s where donations should start if they are to come from anywhere. Except the shared burden principle says the world should be paying the US for demolishing the place. The US is being treated even more horribly than the Gazans really - it's awful. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
carepov Posted February 15 Report Posted February 15 22 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Egypt is at bursting point, physically, economically, politically. There is a reason El-Sisi did not want to be associated with Trump’s strange musings. It’s highly unpopular in Egypt for multiple reasons. The US policy on Palestine/Israel is still a two state solution so in the first instance these people should be moved, if at all, to Palestine. If Chad can take in a million refugees, Egypt can too. Although it seems like Trumps "proposal" is having it's desired effect of forcing other countries to help solve the problem https://www.timesofisrael.com/arab-countries-scramble-to-offer-trump-an-alternate-proposal-for-post-war-gaza/ Quote
carepov Posted February 15 Report Posted February 15 22 hours ago, eyeball said: No that's not it. I'm sure you know what I mean but don't care. In any case Palestinians will likely still be caring for generations just like the last couple generations. Nothing's changed. I have no idea what you mean. I imagine that you are a person that cares about justice and human rights for all. I cannot understand how you can support the Palestinian cause that openly calls for the elimination of Israel. A lot has changed. From 1948 to about 1973 the nation of Israel changed from one of perilous existence to a regional power. Palestinians could have had their own state but they want it all. Quote
eyeball Posted February 15 Report Posted February 15 23 minutes ago, carepov said: I cannot understand how you can support the Palestinian cause that openly calls for the elimination of Israel. I don't support that I support the Palestinian cause that resists Israel's subjugation, dispossession and oppression of Palestine. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
carepov Posted February 15 Report Posted February 15 1 hour ago, eyeball said: I don't support that I support the Palestinian cause that resists Israel's subjugation, dispossession and oppression of Palestine. You have been tricked into beleiving that such a Palestinian cause exists. Quote
eyeball Posted February 15 Report Posted February 15 46 minutes ago, carepov said: You have been tricked into beleiving that such a Palestinian cause exists. Along with billions of other people around the world? I don't see how. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
CdnFox Posted February 15 Report Posted February 15 On 2/14/2025 at 10:18 AM, eyeball said: It's not a really a war at all, it's the subjugation of a people resisting their annexation. It's a war. And if you had any brains or any sense of history you realize that almost all wars are about people resisting their annexation Quote
CdnFox Posted February 15 Report Posted February 15 3 hours ago, eyeball said: I don't support that I support the Palestinian cause that resists Israel's subjugation, dispossession and oppression of Palestine. You mean the terrorists. Yes, we know. You've made that quite clear. The killing of women and children in an Undeclared conflict on October 7th was perfectly fine with you because 1948 and you fully support them. We've heard it all before. I'm sure at some point you'll throw in your usual pretend caveats that you didn't really really really really support the slaughter of innocence but what can you do, sometimes these things are necessary. Quote
eyeball Posted February 15 Report Posted February 15 59 minutes ago, CdnFox said: It's a war. And if you had any brains or any sense of history you realize that almost all wars are about people resisting their annexation Like poor Russia? If you had even a single moral fibre you'd realize Palestinians are still resisting a war and occupation that Jewish terrorists started about 100 years ago. 1 hour ago, CdnFox said: You mean the terrorists. I'm pretty sure Palestinians still view Israelis that way alright. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
CdnFox Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 1 hour ago, eyeball said: Like poor Russia? Are you referring to the war with the ukraine? Which is about the ukrainians resisting annexation and which the russian's stated reason for is their fears over eventual annexation by nato? You are so dense scientists are trying to figure out if your brain has collapsed into it's on mini black hole yet. 1 hour ago, eyeball said: If you had even a single moral fibre you'd realize Palestinians are still resisting a war and occupation if you had a single moral fiber you'd realize it's not okay to kill women and children over a lie. They initiated a war that was not in progress without warning and slaughtered civilians. The purpose for doing this was to win political power by encouraging the Israelis to strike back whereupon they would go screaming to the united nations as they always do and cry about how their civilians that their military hides behind we're getting hurt. This is historically one than brownie points and goodies and they have no problem killing their own people any more than they have a problem killing others. Didn't pan out that way for them this time, they didn't get the sympathy that they were expecting and now they're not sure what to do. But this was about Evil men who want power and the men and women who support them. This has absolutely nothing to do with fighting occupation. They killed innocent women and children on the Israeli side and then hid behind their own women and children and got them killed, and the women and children on their side in question support this. Sorry sparky. Supporting these terrorists and civilian murdering scumballs has nothing to do with occupation and everything to do with political power and money Quote
carepov Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 4 hours ago, eyeball said: Along with billions of other people around the world? I don't see how. Millions of people get fooled all the time. Quote
eyeball Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 2 hours ago, CdnFox said: Are you referring to the war with the ukraine? Which is about the ukrainians resisting annexation and which the russian's stated reason for is their fears over eventual annexation by nato? I was being facetious and mocking the ridiculous notion Russia was the aggrieved victim. I must have had a sense you'd compare the plight of Palestine a hundred years ago to that of poor Russia today. 2 hours ago, CdnFox said: if you had a single moral fiber you'd realize it's not okay to kill women and children over a lie. Go tell it to the Jewish terrorists Irgun and Lehi who massacred the inhabitants of Deir Yassin. 2 hours ago, CdnFox said: Sorry sparky. Supporting these terrorists and civilian murdering scumballs has nothing to do with occupation and everything to do with political power and money Like I said I support Palestinian resistance to occupation, subjugation, dispossession and oppression. You apparently support terrorists and civilian murdering scumballs for shits and giggles. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 1 hour ago, carepov said: Millions of people get fooled all the time. How do you know you're not amongst them? I'm going with Einstein on this one - he knew what he was looking at when he saw it first hand. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
CdnFox Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 11 minutes ago, eyeball said: I was being facetious and mocking the ridiculous notion Russia was the aggrieved victim. I have never ever suggested that Russia is the agreed victim. So in other words you're mocking something that has never existed. Ok kiddo. Quote I must have had a sense you'd compare the plight of Palestine a hundred years ago to that of poor Russia today. Yeah, that's not called "sense", that's called self delusion. Quote Go tell it to the Jewish terrorists Irgun and Lehi who massacred the inhabitants of Deir Yassin. Why. Do you think it'll make your support of these terrorists doing it now ok? Quote Like I said I support Palestinian resistance to occupation, subjugation, dispossession and oppression. Yes, we know. You support terrorists, the slaughter of innocent people in an undeclared conflict and like every evil person in history you think you can justify your inhumanity somehow. You can't. Quote You apparently support terrorists and civilian murdering scumballs for shits and giggles. That's not true, i've never said i support you once! Every single dead person in this conflict could be laid at the feet of Hamas and the population that supported it. There's no mitigation, there is no excuse, there is nothing moral or acceptable about it. They are evil people doing evil things with the support of people like you. Sounds like trump supports scattering them to the four winds. This level of evil was going to lead to in the first place Quote
eyeball Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 24 minutes ago, CdnFox said: I have never ever suggested that Russia is the agreed victim 3 hours ago, CdnFox said: ...and which the russian's stated reason for is their fears over eventual annexation by nato? LMAO! 26 minutes ago, CdnFox said: Why. Do you think it'll make your support of these terrorists doing it now ok? No it'll just rub your nose in your hypocrisy. Not that you'd ever notice though. 29 minutes ago, CdnFox said: You support terrorists, the slaughter of innocent people in an undeclared conflict and like every evil person in history you think you can justify your inhumanity somehow. You can't. Neither can you justify pretending ME history started on Jan 7, 2024. 32 minutes ago, CdnFox said: Sounds like trump supports scattering them to the four winds. This level of evil was going to lead to in the first place It'll be more like pouring gasoline on a wildfire. Good luck with it. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
CdnFox Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 3 hours ago, eyeball said: Quote I have never ever suggested that Russia is the agreed victim ..and which the russian's stated reason for is their fears over eventual annexation by nato? LMAO! Uhhhh... kiddo? THat's not me suggesting russia is the victim. THat's me stating what russia's stated reason is. I know, i know. You get emotional when you start losing a discussion and your english skills always start to crumble I've never ever suggested russia is the victim. The fact that russia claims they were afraid of something doesn't change that 3 hours ago, eyeball said: No it'll just rub your nose in your hypocrisy. There isn't any. I know you're desperate for there to be but my position is consistant. This conflict is 100 percent hamas's fault, every death is their responsibility, there is nothing that can mitigate that, this is not some sort of noble cause. And nothing changes that. You just wish that somehow two wrongs make a right. Quote Neither can you justify pretending ME history started on Jan 7, 2024. I assume you mean october 7, and i'm not actually trying to justify the killings at all, that would be you. Further i never said anything about history, i said the war started October 7th and i'm right. ANd nothing that happened before that justifies that, sorry. I know you're desperate for the terrorists and child killers of hamas to be the good guys, and for the people who support them and keep them in power to be innocents. But none of that is true in the slightest. 3 hours ago, eyeball said: t'll be more like pouring gasoline on a wildfire. Ummm.... they actually do that you know LOLOL you'd think a bc boy who'd spent some time outside would know that. Works pretty good if you can't fight fire with water, then you fight fire with fire. You're just losing all over the place tonight aren't you Quote
Venandi Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 (edited) I can't help but think much of the disconnect here is in terms of acknowledging the objectives of Hamas. They aren't political objectives... you can negotiate with those, it might be difficult but incremental progress is possible if the willingness is there. Hamas has religious objectives and that's both their strength (in terms of subjugating the people) and their downfall in terms of achieving goals. You can't negotiate with religious objectives and incremental progress isn't in the cards or on the table. Nothing but the total destruction of Israel and the annihilation of jews is an acceptable outcome to them. That view isn't shared by all Palestinians BTW, it's forced on them by Hamas. Other Arab countries don't want Palestinian refugees for that reason, they don't want any part of it. If Egypt opened up to refugees the Eastern Sinai would become a launchpad for attacks into Israel and it would open Egypt up to retaliatory strikes on their territory... they don't want that and they know full well that's exactly what they'd get.for their trouble. No amount of rhetoric from well intentioned people who have never been there is going to change hard facts on the ground... no amount of LMAO and duh vomit will have a positive effect on outcomes either. It won't soften Israel's resolve to exist as a nation and it won't address the legitimate grievances of the Palestinian people. Hamas has to go and religious objectives need to morph into political objectives that can be negotiated incrementally over time with a defined political objective accepted as the eventual goal. The Trump plan is a non starter on so many levels it would take two volumes to incapsulate it all. Edited February 16 by Venandi Quote
Venandi Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 (edited) As to Russia, Crimea is the home of the Black Sea Fleet, did anyone think they'd simply shrug it off and give it up... because I didn't. Russian military doctrine has long involved the use of land mass buffers as a defensive strategy, did anyone think Ukraine becoming a NATO member and western ally would be problematic... because I did. That doesn't make it right or good anymore than it makes the people who point it out Russian plants, operatives, sympathizers or traitors to Canada... or whatever nonsense people here will conjure up and vomit into an obnoxious post. If you were expecting another outcome here what exactly did you think it was going to look like? If Trump doesn't offer security assurances to Russia and access to naval facilities in Crimea as conditional what exactly do you think will turn the tide? I think they think this is an existential threat to them whether you (we and us) believe it or not... that still doesn't make it right BTW, it just makes it what it is and acknowledges what (I think) is a big part of the problem in achieving peace there. Conjuring up ancient agreements gone sour and/or digging up long dead mothers in law doesn't address the here and now. People who can't get through Christmas dinner with their own family always seem to have simple solutions to the complex problems faced by others. If you think the road to solutions lies in more LMAO's and duh's then (IMO of course) you're nothing but noise and we have squelch and SELCAL settings that effectively eliminate those background screeches. Edited February 16 by Venandi Quote
carepov Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 10 hours ago, eyeball said: How do you know you're not amongst them? I have been to Israel, the West Bank and Egypt. I have spoken to many Arabs and heard their views clearly. It is not fiction that Arabic society kills dissidents, kills homosexuals, and performs FGM. Their desire to kill all Jews is not a fiction either. 10 hours ago, eyeball said: I'm going with Einstein on this one - he knew what he was looking at when he saw it first hand. Well he was as wrong about the Arabs as he was quantum mechanics. I'll go with Martin Luther King. Quote
eyeball Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 7 hours ago, CdnFox said: THat's me stating what russia's stated reason is. That's right you're whining for them. 7 hours ago, CdnFox said: I've never ever suggested russia is the victim. That's right, I did, and you walked right into it. Here you are walking into it again. 8 hours ago, CdnFox said: I've never ever suggested russia is the victim. The fact that russia claims they were afraid of something doesn't change that LMAO! Now you say Russia's pretext for invading Ukraine was a fact. 8 hours ago, CdnFox said: This conflict is 100 percent hamas's fault, every death is their responsibility, there is nothing that can mitigate that, this is not some sort of noble cause. Nope Palestinians were quite happily going about their lives and then the Nakba happened. Which we helped engineer. 8 hours ago, CdnFox said: I assume you mean october 7, and i'm not actually trying to justify the killings at all, that would be you. Further i never said anything about history, i said the war started October 7th and i'm right. ANd nothing that happened before that justifies that, sorry. Yes I meant Oct 7, when this latest round of violence flared up. Nothing justifies what started happening to Palestine 100 years ago. 8 hours ago, CdnFox said: I know you're desperate for the terrorists and child killers of hamas to be the good guys, Some of them but like anyone else they should be subject to criminal prosecution for war crimes they commit. 8 hours ago, CdnFox said: if you can't fight fire with water, then you fight fire with fire. Welcome to the forever war...that we helped start. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
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