It’s Official: US Abandoning Ukraine | Scheerpost

[Nationalist]

19 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

 

link

I'm sure to the cultists this is all part of some master plan to keep everyone else off balance, but to the rest of the world this looks like an administration that doesn't know what it's doing.

Lol...such bullshit.

[Black Dog]

14 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Lol...such bullshit.

Again: you're useless.

[Nationalist]

10 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Again: you're useless.

Yes Dear...

[User]

2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

I'm sure to the cultists this is all part of some master plan to keep everyone else off balance, but to the rest of the world this looks like an administration that doesn't know what it's doing.

It helps, if you actually listen to what folks say and not the lies and spin CNN and others put on it. 

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

to the rest of the world this looks like an administration that doesn't know what it's doing.

You lose again, Dumb Doggie. 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

And who is the president now you stupid twat?

What evidence do you have that the current president is anything like Biden was, you stupid twat?

You lose again.

Sorry Black Dummy, it's just what you do. 

[Black Dog]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

What evidence do you have that the current president is anything like Biden was, you stupid twat?

My eyes and ears you pathetic old turd.

[WestCanMan]

22 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

My eyes and ears you pathetic old turd.

That's not "evidence", that's lying drivel. Can't blame you for not noticing, considering your condition an' all.

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, Black Dog said:

 

link

I'm sure to the cultists this is all part of some master plan to keep everyone else off balance, but to the rest of the world this looks like an administration that doesn't know what it's doing.

I'm not sure I see the contradiction there. Trump says he's going to negotiate with them and hopefully find a path to peace and vance says  if you don't make peace with us imma kick you butt.  That seems to be consistent, make peace or prepare for war

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

What evidence do you have that the current president is anything like Biden was, you stupid twat?

37 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

My eyes and ears you pathetic old turd.

We have no knowledge that would suggest your eyes or your ears are faulty in any way. But we are familiar with your brain which is what your eyes and ears report to.

The cameras can be 4K but if the processor is a commodore 64 then the output is still going to be extremely fuzzy and choppy

[Scott75]

I just read the article linked below published on February 13,  thought it was quite interesting

Ukraine - The Beginning Of The End (Which Is Yet Far Away) | Moon of Alabama

Quoting the conclusion:

**

Unless a structure of indivisible security in Europe is found and agreed upon Russia will have to use military means to guarantee security for itself and its allies. Its Special Military Operation is likely to continue until that objective has been achieved.

There is no sign that Trump has recognized the larger issue at hand and is willing to talk about it. When he finds out that there is no short term solution - a ceasefire - to have, he might want to dump the whole issue and ignore the outcome: "Let Europe take care ..."

When the Biden administration provoked and executed the proxy war against Russia, major European countries ignored their own interest and behaved like U.S. vassals. They now make noise about being left out of the peace process.

Well, if you behave like vassals and ignore your own interest why are you astonished when you are treated like vassals and have your own interests ignored? Grow some balls and fight for your interests. Then maybe, just maybe, other will also start to keep your interests in mind.

**

[User]

19 hours ago, Black Dog said:

My eyes and ears you pathetic old turd.

Yeah, we don't know what is in your head, it is your inability to articulate an honest or coherent thought we can see. 

So far you have told us that a man with a fake vagina is a woman, so your eyes are not much to go off of. 

 

2 hours ago, Scott75 said:

I just read the article linked below published on February 13,  thought it was quite interesting

Great. You can't even defend your own stupid garbage on here... but yeah, sure, quote someone else's BS. 

 

[WestCanMan]

On 2/14/2025 at 8:23 AM, Black Dog said:

Again: useless.

^That^ was edited to the point of truthfulness. 

You're welcome. 

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Scott75 said:

I just read the article linked below published on February 13,  thought it was quite interesting

Ukraine - The Beginning Of The End (Which Is Yet Far Away) | Moon of Alabama

Quoting the conclusion:

**

Unless a structure of indivisible security in Europe is found and agreed upon Russia will have to use military means to guarantee security for itself and its allies. Its Special Military Operation is likely to continue until that objective has been achieved.

There is no sign that Trump has recognized the larger issue at hand and is willing to talk about it. When he finds out that there is no short term solution - a ceasefire - to have, he might want to dump the whole issue and ignore the outcome: "Let Europe take care ..."

When the Biden administration provoked and executed the proxy war against Russia, major European countries ignored their own interest and behaved like U.S. vassals. They now make noise about being left out of the peace process.

Well, if you behave like vassals and ignore your own interest why are you astonished when you are treated like vassals and have your own interests ignored? Grow some balls and fight for your interests. Then maybe, just maybe, other will also start to keep your interests in mind.

**

It seems like Trump wants a guarantee to rare minerals from Ukraine in exchange for bombs to keep the war going. 

The best thing that can happen right now is if Zelensky just says "F the war" and puts his country first, but I think that Trump has fallen in love with the idea of controlling mineral wealth and all of their other resources, and he won't let go.

This is now less of a proxy war to weaken Russia & empower NATO, and more of a naked grab for Ukraine's resources by the US.

[Scott75]

4 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

@GregWTF do you even do here, you worthless piece of shit? 

I've been reading everything (not enough time to reply to everything I want to reply to yet unfortunately) and reporting when something looks pretty egregious, so I suspect I know why you said that, but perhaps he hasn't yet seen the message I suspect you're thinking about yet.

Edited February 16 by Scott75

[Scott75]

On 2/12/2025 at 11:21 AM, WestCanMan said:

On 2/12/2025 at 3:37 AM, Scott75 said:

Ukraine's renewed assault on the Donbass Republics/Donbass region of Ukraine, on the other hand, happened -immediately- prior to Russia's war in Ukraine. I brought this up with DUI in my post #72, but he simply dismissed the evidence, much of which was coming from a former Swiss Intelligence Officer named Jacques Baud. Mr. Baud is a man with a career path that brought him directly into the conflict in Ukraine before Russia's military operation began.

I think Former Swiss Intelligence Officer captured Putin's predicament quite well in the days leading up to his decision to start a military operation in Ukraine:

The annexation of Crimea is always listed as the first major event after Yanukovich was ousted.

I actually think that's accurate, but let's not forgot that the Euromaidan massacre came before Yanukovych's ouster. I also think that very few people understand that for most Crimeans, their return to being part of Russia was a joyous ocasion. I know of only a single western journalist who interviewed Crimeans after the annexation and wrote an article about it, Canadian American journalist Eva Bartlett. Her article in full is here:

Return to Russia: Crimeans tell the real story of the 2014 referendum and their lives since | Mint Press News

Here's the introduction to her article:

**

SIMFEROPOL, CRIMEA — In early August I traveled to Russia for the first time, partly out of interest in seeing some of the vast country with a tourist’s eyes, partly to do some journalism in the region. It also transpired that while in Moscow I was able to interview Maria Zakharova, spokeswoman of the Foreign Ministry.

High on my travel list, however, was to visit Crimea and Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) — the former a part of Russia, the latter an autonomous republic in the east of Ukraine, neither accurately depicted in Western reporting. Or at least that was my sense looking at independent journalists’ reports and those in Russian media.

Both regions are native Russian-speaking areas; both opted out of Ukraine in 2014. In the case of Crimea, joining Russia (or actually rejoining, as most I spoke to in Crimea phrased it) was something people overwhelmingly supported. In the case of the Donbass region, the turmoil of Ukraine’s Maidan coup in 2014 set things in motion for the people in the region to declare independence and form the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics.

**

Now, I'd like to say that as Mr. Jacques Baud pointed out in his article, that the Donbass' region's -initial- reaction wasn't to 'opt out' of Ukraine, but rather to become more autonomous within it, as they didn't like the direction the new Ukrainian government was taking, in particular to its stance on the Russian language. This changed following the fierce repression from said new government. Anyway, continuing...

**

In March 2014, Crimeans held a referendum during which 96 percent of voters chose to join Russia. This has been heavily disputed in Western media, with claims that Crimeans were forced to hold the referendum and claims of Russian troops on the streets “occupying” the peninsula.

Because Western media insisted the referendum was a sham held under duress, and because they bandy about the term “pro-Russian separatists” for the people of the DPR, I decided to go and speak to people in these areas to hear what they actually want and feel.

**

Taking what I think was the best snippet from the main body of her article:

**

Since there was so much hype in Western media about a Russian takeover of the peninsula, I ask the burning questions: Were Crimeans forced to take part in the referendum? What was the mood like around that time? Tata replied:

"I never saw so many people in my life go out to vote, of their own free will. There was a period before the referendum, maybe about two months, during which there were two holidays: International Women’s Day, March 8, and Defender of the Fatherland Day, February 23.

Normally, people would go away on vacation during these holidays. But that year, Crimeans didn’t go anywhere; they wanted to be sure they were here during the referendum. We felt the sense of a miracle about to happen. People were anxiously awaiting the referendum.

There were military tents in the city, but they were not erected by the military, but by local men. They would stand there every day, and people could come and sign a document calling for a referendum.

I went one day and asked if I could add my name but I couldn’t, because I have a Russian passport. Only Crimean citizens could sign it. This was the fair way to do it.

At that time, my husband was in America. One day, he was watching CNN and got scared and called me because he saw reports of soldiers in the streets, an ‘invasion’ by Russia.

The local navy came from Sevastopol to Yalta and anchored their ships off the coast, made a blockade to ensure no larger Ukrainian or other ships could come and attack.

But I never saw tanks, I never saw Russian soldiers. I never saw any of that in the city.”

**

Now skipping to her conclusion:

**

Having spent over a week traveling by car and local transport in this utterly beautiful setting, I know I will be returning to Crimea when the opportunity affords itself.

As for the claims that Russia invaded Crimea and of Russian forces intimidating voters, I believe the many people I met who denounced those claims and articulated very clearly why they wanted to join Russia, or as they say, “return to Russia.”

**

 

[Scott75]

On 2/12/2025 at 11:21 AM, WestCanMan said:

I don't consider Vox a news source, but this article is a quick, concise overview that's in lock-step with everything else that you'll find on Google searches: https://www.vox.com/2014/9/3/18088560/ukraine-everything-you-need-to-know

• This all began as an internal Ukrainian crisis in November 2013, when President Viktor Yanukovych rejected a deal for greater integration with the European Union (here's why this was such a big deal), sparking mass protests, which Yanukovych attempted to put down violently. Russia backed Yanukovych in the crisis, while the US and Europe supported the protesters.

  Since then, several big things have happened. In February, anti-government protests toppled the government and ran Yanukovych out of the country. Russia, trying to salvage its lost influence in Ukraine, invaded and annexed Crimea the next month.

I think it's pretty accurate to say that things began to really heat up in November 2013, but as I've mentioned elsewhere, there were good reasons for Yanukovych to reject the European Union deal. To understand that, I think we need to go back a bit earlier, to September 2013. From an article by Kit Knightly published in Off Guardian:

**

SEPTEMBER
The Ukrainian cabinet unanimously approves the draft of the long-awaited Ukraine-EU Association Agreement. Yanokuych is expected to officially sign the agreement at the EU’s “Eastern Partnership Summit” in Vilnius on November 28th and 29th.

Russia – Ukraine’s major creditor and biggest trade partner – warns that this treaty would “cause chaos”, break the terms of an existing treaty between Ukraine and Russia, and lead to Ukraine’s economy collapsing. As a counteroffer, they suggest Ukraine sign a new deal with the Eurasian Economic Union.

**

It's in -that- context that Yanukovych decides to suspend preparations for signing the EU deal in November:

**

NOVEMBER
The Ukrainian government issues a decree suspending preparations for the association agreement (AA). Deputy Prime Minister Yuriy Boyko warns the current terms of the agreement would “seriously damage the economy”.

“Pro European” demonstrations begin in Maidan square within days of the decree being issued. A poll run by the Kyiv Post finds an even split on joining the EU vs the Eurasian customs union: 39% for, 37% against.

Yanukovych attends the Eastern Partnership Summit on the 28th, but does not sign the Association Agreement, instead suggesting a new tri-lateral agreement between Ukraine, Russia and the EU. Russia is open to negotiating such a deal, but EU rejects this offer completely.

Despite not signing the AA, Yanukovych tells the press that Ukraine still intends to work for closer ties with the EU: “an alternative for reforms in Ukraine and an alternative for European integration do not exist…We are walking along this path and are not changing direction”.

Prime Minister Mykola Azarov echoed this: “I affirm with full authority that the negotiating process over the Association Agreement is continuing, and the work on moving our country closer to European standards is not stopping for a single day”.

Nevertheless, this is ubiquitously covered in the Western media as Yanukovych “refusing to sign the association agreement in favour of closer ties with Russia”.

**

As to the notion that Yanukovych attempted to put down the protests violently, the heart of that is the allegation that his people were responsible for the deaths on February 20, 2014. I think it's important to point out that the day before this massacre, Yanukovych had actually made a deal with opposition forces, strongly suggesting that the -last- thing he wanted to do was antagonize them at this point. Again from Knightly's article:

**

19/2/2014 – President Yanukovych declares a “truce” in a joint statement signed by the three main opposition leaders. The statement committed to negotiation for a lasting peace.

20/2/2014 – Snipers open fire on the crowd in Maidan Square, resulting in at least sixty deaths. Both protesters and police officers are killed in the gunfire. EuroNews reports that the “truce is shattered” mere hours after it was signed.

**

As I've explained elsewhere, there's plenty of evidence that it was actually a certain group within the protest movement itself that was responsible, as well as evidence that an American military operative played a crucial role as well, as detailed in the following article:

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-hidden-truth-about-ukraine-italian-documentary-bombshell-evidence-kiev-euromaidan-snipers-kill-demonstrators/5619684

 

Even after this massacre, Yanukoych tried his best to calm things down, but to no avail. Again from Kit Knightly's article:

**

21/2/2014 – Despite the bloodshed, negotiations continue, resulting in the “Agreement on settlement of political crisis in Ukraine”, signed by all parties plus the foreign minsiters of Germany and Poland.

The agreement required the creation of a temporary “National Unity Government”, to be replaced following new Presidential Elections by the end of 2014. It also called for a full investigation into the shootings on the Maidan the previous day.

Yanukovych pledged that the government would not declare a state of emergency or call in the military, and would pull all police back from the site of the protests, in return for protesters surrendering all public buildings and illegal weapons.

Leaders of the militant protesters – including Dmitryo Yarosh of the neo-Nazi Right Sector – rejected the agreement, and threatened to storm the Parliament and Presidental Residence if Yanukoyvch did not resign immediately.

22/2/2014 – Rather than abiding by the terms of the agreement, once the police pulled back the protesters stormed government buildings and seized control of Kiev. Yanukovych flees to the city of Kharkiv in eastern Ukraine.

**

 

As to Russia, I think that one of the main reason for agreeing to allow Crimeans to rejoin Russia and risk international condemnation had to do with the fact that it definitely didn't want to lose its access to the Black Sea. But I also suspect it didn't want any massacres to happen in Kyiv as well.

[Scott75]

On 2/12/2025 at 11:21 AM, WestCanMan said:

I don't consider Vox a news source, but this article is a quick, concise overview that's in lock-step with everything else that you'll find on Google searches: https://www.vox.com/2014/9/3/18088560/ukraine-everything-you-need-to-know

• ...The rebels shot down Malaysian Airlines flight 17 on July 17, killing 298 people, probably accidentally. 

From what I've seen, the evidence is very strong that Malaysian Airlines 17 was actually shot down by the Ukrainian government. A good article on that:

Evidence Is Now Conclusive: Two Ukrainian Government Fighter-Jets Shot Down Malaysian Airlines MH17. It was Not a ‘Buk’ Surface to Air Missile | Global Research

Edited February 17 by Scott75

[Scott75]

On 2/12/2025 at 11:21 AM, WestCanMan said:

I don't consider Vox a news source, but this article is a quick, concise overview that's in lock-step with everything else that you'll find on Google searches: https://www.vox.com/2014/9/3/18088560/ukraine-everything-you-need-to-know

• ...Fighting between the rebels and the Ukrainian military intensified, the rebels started losing, and, in August, the Russian army overtly invaded eastern Ukraine to support the rebels.

For anyone reading this, this vox article is saying that Russia invaded eastern Ukraine in August, 2014. I note that they don't offer a shred of evidence for their assertion. As mentioned previously, former Swiss Intelligence Officer Jacques Baud shot down assertions of this nature in the article he wrote shortly after Russia -actually- started its military operation in Ukraine in February 2022:

**

In 2014, I am at NATO, responsible for the fight against the proliferation of small arms, and we are trying to detect Russian arms deliveries to the rebels in order to see if Moscow is involved. The information that we receive then comes practically all from the Polish intelligence services and does not “match” with the information from the OSCE: in spite of rather crude allegations, we do not observe any delivery of arms and materials Russian military.

 

The rebels are armed thanks to the defections of Russian-speaking Ukrainian units which cross over to the rebel side. As the Ukrainian failures progressed, the entire tank, artillery or anti-aircraft battalions swelled the ranks of the autonomists. This is what drives the Ukrainians to commit to the Minsk Accords.

**

For the record, August 2014 is when Ukraine signed the first Minsk accords with Russia. Continuing from his article:

**

But, just after signing the Minsk 1 Accords, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko launched a vast anti-terrorist operation (ATO/Антитерористична операція) against Donbass. Bis repetita placent  : poorly advised by NATO officers, the Ukrainians suffered a crushing defeat at Debaltsevo which forced them to commit to the Minsk 2 Agreements…

It is essential to recall here that the Minsk 1 (September 2014) and Minsk 2 (February 2015) Agreements provided for neither the separation nor the independence of the Republics, but their autonomy within the framework of Ukraine. Those who have read the Accords (they are very, very, very few) will find that it is written in full that the status of the republics was to be negotiated between Kiev and the representatives of the republics, for an internal solution in Ukraine .

This is why since 2014, Russia has systematically demanded their application while refusing to be a party to the negotiations, because it was an internal matter for Ukraine. On the other side, the Westerners – led by France – systematically tried to replace the Minsk Accords with the “Normandy format”, which brought Russians and Ukrainians face to face. However, let us remember, there were never any Russian troops in the Donbass before February 23-24, 2022. Moreover, OSCE observers have never observed the slightest trace of Russian units operating in the Donbass. Thus, the US intelligence map published by the Washington Post on December 3, 2021 does not show Russian troops in Donbass.

**

Edited February 17 by Scott75

[Scott75]

On 2/12/2025 at 11:21 AM, WestCanMan said:

I don't consider Vox a news source, but this article is a quick, concise overview that's in lock-step with everything else that you'll find on Google searches: https://www.vox.com/2014/9/3/18088560/ukraine-everything-you-need-to-know

• ...Sanctions are pushing the Russian economy to the brink of recession, and more than 2,500 Ukrainians have been killed.

I have to chuckle at this- the west has been pushing this narrative that sanctions have brought Russia "to the brink" for 11 years now :-p. 

On 2/12/2025 at 11:21 AM, WestCanMan said:

On 2/12/2025 at 3:37 AM, Scott75 said:

I think Former Swiss Intelligence Officer captured Putin's predicament quite well in the days leading up to his decision to start a military operation in Ukraine:

**

In fact, as early as February 16, Joe Biden knows that the Ukrainians began to shell the civilian populations of Donbass, putting Vladimir Putin in front of a difficult choice: to help Donbass militarily and create an international problem or to sit idle and watch Russian speakers from the Donbass being run over.

If he decides to intervene, Vladimir Putin can invoke the international obligation of “  Responsibility To Protect  ” (R2P). But he knows that whatever its nature or scale, the intervention will trigger a shower of sanctions. Therefore, whether its intervention is limited to the Donbass or whether it goes further to put pressure on the West for the status of Ukraine, the price to be paid will be the same. This is what he explains in his speech on February 21.

That day, he acceded to the request of the Duma and recognized the independence of the two Republics of Donbass and, in the process, he signed treaties of friendship and assistance with them.

The Ukrainian artillery bombardments on the populations of Donbass continued and, on February 23, the two Republics requested military aid from Russia. On the 24th, Vladimir Putin invokes Article 51 of the United Nations Charter which provides for mutual military assistance within the framework of a defensive alliance.

In order to make the Russian intervention totally illegal in the eyes of the public we deliberately obscure the fact that the war actually started on February 16th. The Ukrainian army was preparing to attack the Donbass as early as 2021, as certain Russian and European intelligence services were well aware… The lawyers will judge.

**

Full article:

https://scheerpost.com/2022/04/09/former-nato-military-analyst-blows-the-whistle-on-wests-ukraine-invasion-narrative/

Yeah, that's definitely obscured. I think the Russian word for Google is internyet.

Yeah, it's pretty sad how effective mainstream search engines and news sites have hidden this truth :-/.

[Scott75]

On 2/12/2025 at 11:26 AM, WestCanMan said:

FWIW I have some friends who are Bulgarian and Polish, who still have friends and family there so they go back frequently, and for them it's just understood that the Donbas was being shelled before Russia got involved at all. 

Why was the shelling occurring? Were there already attacks occurring against the local gov'ts before that? 

Indeed. Ukraine had made plans to attack the Donbass republics since 2021, according to Jacques Baud and the attacks actually began in earnest on February 16, 2022. Had Ukraine not done this or had they at least stopped after Russia recognized the Donbass Republics on February 21, 2022, I think it's quite possible that Russia may never have launched its military operation on February 24, 2022. Unfortunately, Ukraine was filled with delusions of grandeur on how they didn't could take on Russia even -after- Russia started its military operation and so, we have the tragic results of today. 

[User]

17 minutes ago, Scott75 said:

From what I've read, the evidence is very strong that Malaysian Airlines 17 was actually shot down by the Ukrainian government. A good article on that:

Of course that is your "source", which is basically a Russian disinformation site. Congratulations. The only question now is if you really believe this bullshit or if you are purposefully pushing Russian disinformation. 

"The platform, Global Research, features a Canadian domain name and offers an ever-expanding collection of conspiracy theories, such as the myth that the 9/11 attacks and COVID-19 pandemic were both planned in order to control the population. The website also hosts articles experts have attributed to a Russian spy agency."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/russian-disinformation-global-research-website-1.5767208

 

[Scott75]

On 2/12/2025 at 11:30 AM, WestCanMan said:

On 2/12/2025 at 7:26 AM, Scott75 said:

Agreed. Who gave you the idea that these snipers were being employed for crowd control? As to why they were hired by anti-government protesters, that's something that the article from which that quote comes from doesn't even speculate on. That being said, another article I've brought up in the past reports on an Italian documentary wherein some men claim to have been some of the snipers themselves. These men explain the reasoning for their being hired. Quoting from that article:

**

The interviews with three snipers of Georgian nationality, conducted by the Italian journalist Gian Micalessin and aired as a breathtaking documentary on Milan-based Canale 5 (Matrix program) last week, still have not paved its way to the international mainstream media. That is hardly surprising taking into account the bombshell evidence against the real perpetrators and organizers of the 2014 coup d’etat in Kiev, generally known as the “revolution of dignity“.

The documentary features Alexander Revazishvili, Koba Nergadze and Zalogi Kvaratskhelia, Georgian military officers  who were recruited to carry out a “special mission” in Kiev by Mamuka Mamulashvili, a close aid of Mikhail Saakashvili’s former defense minister Bacho Akhalaia. They claim that on Jan 15, 2014 they landed in Kiev equipped with fake documents and were transferred to Maidan. Having received 1000 USD each one and being promised to  be paid 5000 USD after the “job is done”, they were tasked to prepare sniper positions inside the buildings of Hotel Ukraine and Conservatory, dominant over the Maidan Square.

The facts they exposed afterwards, were shocking. Along with other snipers (some of them were Lithuanians) they were put under command of an American military operative Brian Christopher Boyenger (his Facebook page is here). The coordinating team also included Mamulashvili and infamous Segrey Pashinsky, who was detained by protesters on Feb 18, 2017 [the author must have meant 2014] with a sniper rifle in the boot of his car and  later headed the first post-Maidan interim president administration of Ukraine. The weapons came on stage on February 18 and were distributed to the various Georgian and Lithuanian groups. “There were three or four weapons in each bag, there were Makarov guns, AKM guns, rifles, and a lot of cartridges.” – witnesses Nergadze.

The following day, Mamulashvili and Pashinsky explained to snipers that they should shoot at the square and sow chaos. “When Mamulashvili arrived, I also asked him. Things are getting complicated, we have to start shooting – he replied that we cannot go to presidential elections. “But who to shoot?“ I asked. He replied that who and where it did not matter, you had to shoot somewhere so much to sow chaos.”

 

“It did not matter if we fired at a tree, barricade, or those who tossed a Molotov, what counted was making panics.”

“I listened to the screams,” recalls Revazishvili. “There were many dead and injured downstairs. My first and only thought was to leave in a hurry before they caught up with me. Otherwise, they would tear me apart.”

Four years later, Revazishvili and his two companions report they have not yet received the promised 5000 USD bills as a payment and have decided to tell the truth about those who “used and abandoned” them.

The full documentary with English subtitles is available below (in two parts):

**

Unfortunately, the documentary is no longer available on youtube, but I saw parts of it when it was still up. I also found a non youtube version on the wayback archived version of the original article. This wayback version can be seen here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20230130070306/https://orientalreview.org/2017/11/23/cheap-dignity-of-the-ukrainian-revolution/

I can recall a few events that happened in my lifetime where crowds got spooked, and people were trampled while they were fleeing.

For sure, but in this case, I think it's pretty clear that most of the killing was done by these mercenary snipers and to this day, few realize that it wasn't Yanukovych's government that was behind it.

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, User said:

Of course that is your "source", which is basically a Russian disinformation site. Congratulations. The only question now is if you really believe this bullshit or if you are purposefully pushing Russian disinformation. 

"The platform, Global Research, features a Canadian domain name and offers an ever-expanding collection of conspiracy theories, such as the myth that the 9/11 attacks and COVID-19 pandemic were both planned in order to control the population. The website also hosts articles experts have attributed to a Russian spy agency."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/russian-disinformation-global-research-website-1.5767208

 

The CBC? Dude...really? You dismiss one source as being biased...by using the CBC as a source?

Pot/Kettle.

[User]

7 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

The CBC? Dude...really? You dismiss one source as being biased...by using the CBC as a source?

Pot/Kettle.

No, not biased... an outright conspiracy peddling Russian disinformation source. 

Yes, that is exactly what it is. 

To the larger point, extensive investigations and sourcing was already done on this to point to it being a Russian anti-aircraft missile fired by the Russian-backed separatists.