California has been ‘warned’ about this for decades amid outcry for aid

[Venandi]

8 minutes ago, Aristides said:

I never said the pipes will melt, just the soldered  joints  that hold them together.

That's what I was referring to as well even if I said pipes.... you guys kill me your specifics. Being plastic though, pex certainly would.

Solder joints can fail at about 430F in the absence of captured water and suppression initiation occurs at well under half that temperature. I'm not going to fence with you, if you have any real information on this I can assure you I'm interested.

If there's a plumber about I'll ask... it has never come up as one of those lunch time arguments tradesmen seem to delight in though. I can't imagine building codes would allow pex in suppression applications.

Edited January 14, 2025 by Venandi

[Aristides]

7 minutes ago, Venandi said:

That's what I was referring to as well even if I said pipes.... you guys kill me your specifics.

Solder joints can fail at about 430F in the absence of captured water and suppression initiation occurs at well under half that temperature. I'm not going to fence with you, if you have any real information on this I can assure you I'm interested.

If there's a plumber about I'll ask... it has never come up as one of this lunch time arguments tradesmen seem to enjoy though.

I think it is an academic argument anyway as these systems wouldn't have saved those homes regardless of the water pressure. We are talking about heat so intense that half the water coming from firehoses will have evaporated before they hit the fire.

Edited January 14, 2025 by Aristides

[Venandi]

3 minutes ago, Aristides said:

I think it is an academic argument anyway as these systems wouldn't have saved those homes regardless of the water pressure. We are talking about heat so intense that half the water coming from firehoses will have evaporated before they hit the fire.

I think it's an utterly foolish proposition personally.

Caution though, you're now starting to sound like me.... stand by for Robo incoming fire. Maybe he can explain it all to dumb hyenas.

Edited January 14, 2025 by Venandi

[Aristides]

When winds are high, forests will "candle", meaning the fire jumps from tree top to tree top and they burn from the top down. When they reach that stage, clearing underbrush won't protect anything.

[User]

12 minutes ago, Aristides said:

I think it is an academic argument anyway as these systems wouldn't have saved those homes regardless of the water pressure. We are talking about heat so intense that half the water coming from firehoses will have evaporated before they hit the fire.

Except, much of these fires are started by the ash and embers blowing and starting smaller fires in these neighborhoods and homes that can in fact be put out and stopped before they grow larger... IF they have the water to do it. 

Dudes were saving their homes with hoses and swimming pool water. 

 

[Aristides]

5 minutes ago, User said:

Except, much of these fires are started by the ash and embers blowing and starting smaller fires in these neighborhoods and homes that can in fact be put out and stopped before they grow larger... IF they have the water to do it. 

Dudes were saving their homes with hoses and swimming pool water. 

 

Keeping flammables away from a home is an owners responsibility, not the governments. Seems they have enough water to fill swimming pools, good thing they turned out to have a practical purpose.

[User]

8 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Keeping flammables away from a home is an owners responsibility, not the governments. Seems they have enough water to fill swimming pools, good thing they turned out to have a practical purpose.

And having enough water in the fire hydrants so the firefighters can fight fires is the government's responsibility... 

Either way, you are once again changing the point to avoid the stupidity of your comments. That these fires can in fact be fought with water. Property and homes can be saved. 

[Aristides]

11 minutes ago, User said:

And having enough water in the fire hydrants so the firefighters can fight fires is the government's responsibility... 

Either way, you are once again changing the point to avoid the stupidity of your comments. That these fires can in fact be fought with water. Property and homes can be saved. 

About all you can do with a garden hose is keep things wet to prevent them from catching fire, there is not a hope in hell they would put one out in those conditions once they have started.

[User]

3 minutes ago, Aristides said:

About all you can do with a garden hose is keep things wet to prevent them from catching fire, there is not a hope in hell they would put one out in those conditions once they have started.

And yet again, you completely ignore the point. 

[Venandi]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

When winds are high, forests will "candle", meaning the fire jumps from tree top to tree top

They even jump rivers, trees on the other side explode into flames. It's made all the worse in reforested areas where deciduous trees were sprayed in favour fir.

 

1 hour ago, User said:

that can in fact be put out and stopped before they grow larger... IF they have the water to do it. 

This was a huge fail point, lots of homes lost because of it and lots of stories of people defying evacuation orders and saving their homes with a garden hose... no fire trucks in sight.

58 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Keeping flammables away from a home is an owners responsibility, not the governments. Seems they have enough water to fill swimming pools, good thing they turned out to have a practical purpose.

No one is suggesting otherwise, forest management likely falls to the state, and property management enforcement to the county/city... another fail on all counts. 

33 minutes ago, Aristides said:

About all you can do with a garden hose is keep things wet to prevent them from catching fire

Yes, and that small effort payed off big time for some. 

 

29 minutes ago, User said:

And yet again, you completely ignore the point. 

Likely the biggest single cause factor of all, there will be a lot of WTF did you think was going to happen questions after all is said and done. 

The urgency with which common sense mitigation efforts are dismissed by those favouring climate change as causal baffles me. You would think they would be leading the mitigation charge.

Edited January 14, 2025 by Venandi

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, User said:

No... because there was not enough water available to support the need. 

Because there wasn't enough pressure behind the water.

2 hours ago, User said:

Fire hydrants are not on some special infrastructure, you can't put sea water into the system. That is what we are talking about. 

You pump the seawater into the fire truck and take the truck to the fire. Typically the standard is three trucks to fight a fire.

2 hours ago, User said:

Talk about a dishonest argument. We are not talking about "preventing" any wildfires, we are talking about protecting the homes from them. 

Let me rephrase that then, no amount of stored water would have protected the homes from the wildfires we're witnessing in LA the winds were just way to strong.

I should have known you'd play the pedant card.

2 hours ago, User said:

Dudes were staying behind and saving their homes with a hose and their swimming pool water. The simple fact is that if firefighters had water to fight fires in these neighborhoods, they could have saved a lot of homes and property. 

Sure they could. You never read the article I posted did you? A typical house fire requires 3 trucks and 15 firemen. LA has 183 trucks and 12000 buildings burned down...you do the math.

2 hours ago, User said:

How are you this dumb?

Like I said I was fireman for several years.

Do you have any reason for believing you know what you're talking about?

 

Edited January 14, 2025 by eyeball

[CdnFox]

23 hours ago, eyeball said:

California has been ‘warned’ about this for decades amid outcry for aid.
 

Sorta like Florida has been warned about flooding for decades?

 

Yeah. Only florida did something

Flood Control - Plant Management in Florida Waters - An Integrated Approach - University of Florida, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences - UF/IFAS

At the end of the day it's fine now to argue what the best solution would be, having fleets of firebombers or doing more ground clean up maintenance regularly or requiring fire breaks or whatever but they knew there was an issue and did not address it. 

While that doesn't really make me feel any less bad for the people affected, it's borderline criminal for the gov't and the people DO bear some responsibility for not pushing the gov't on it more in the past. 

[User]

13 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Because there wasn't enough pressure behind the water.

OK, I already explained this once, once again...

Pressure is created BY THE WATER being in the tanks and reservoirs. If there is no water, there is no pressure. Pumps pump water up to the tanks, because they had so few tanks, the reservoir was already empty, and the tanks they did have were not very large... they did not have enough water to keep up. 

18 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Let me rephrase that then, no amount of stored water would have protected the homes from the wildfires we're witnessing in LA the winds were just way to strong.

I should have known you'd play the pedant card.

Then let me be clear, had the 117 million gallon reservoir been filled, had they had better infrastructure with more tanks and pumps, they certainly could have protected many homes and neighborhoods from this fire. 

19 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Sure they could. You never read the article I posted did you? A typical house fire requires 3 trucks and 15 firemen. LA has 183 trucks and 12000 buildings burned down...you do the math.

That is damage done AFTER the fact, they did not have 12,000 buildings burned down all at once. You are beyond dishonest in these discussions. 

Also... I have made the point already, they need to improve their infrastructure which includes manpower and equipment. 

21 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Like I said I was fireman for several years.

Do you have any reason for believing you know what you're talking about?

Being a fireman is not an excuse for being dumb. 

Yes, it is called logic and common sense. Where are you getting the pump infrastructure to send sea water up to these tanks in the middle of a fire in time to help put out fires in progress... when they already have an overwhelmed pump system incapable of sending water up to these tanks... AND these systems are fresh water systems used by homes... so you don't design them to use sea water. If you have time to design them to use sea water, you have time to design a large enough fresh water system.

 

[Aristides]

2 hours ago, User said:

And yet again, you completely ignore the point. 

What, that firefighters run out of water in a week long firestorm? Unbelievable.

[Deluge]

15 hours ago, robosmith said:

We've been warning you lDIOTS about climate change for much longer. Duh

And you've been barking up an empty tree. 

There is no climate change, you stupid moonbat. Get that through your head. 

[CdnFox]

37 minutes ago, Aristides said:

What, that firefighters run out of water in a week long firestorm? Unbelievable.

Wouldn't have been a week long fire storm if they'd prepared enough water.  Or taken other measures. 

[Venandi]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

What, that firefighters run out of water in a week long firestorm?

No, it happened Tuesday and you know it.

You'd be better off arguing that the system was never designed for the level of demand being asked of it in that scenario. That admission would foster the idea of pre-emptive planning for most people. At a minimum, it could be constructively applied to future planning after a disastrous failure.

But I think you know that too.

"Completely dry - couldn't get any water out of it," said Captain Kevin Easton, who was part of a firefighting patrol battling flames that were quickly engulfing the Pacific Palisades in the Los Angeles area on Tuesday evening, according to The NY Times.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2025 by Venandi

[Aristides]

21 minutes ago, Venandi said:

No, it happened Tuesday and you know it. 

"Completely dry - couldn't get any water out of it," said Captain Kevin Easton, who was part of a firefighting patrol battling flames that were quickly engulfing the Pacific Palisades in the Los Angeles area on Tuesday evening, according to The NY Times.

 

 

Three major fires started on the same day.

[User]

2 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Three major fires started on the same day.

And you were dishonestly trying to frame it like the water lasted a week, as if the current infrastructure was perfect and reasonable. 

 

[Venandi]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

What, that firefighters run out of water in a week long firestorm? Unbelievable.

 

23 minutes ago, Venandi said:

No, it happened Tuesday and you know it.

 

2 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Three major fires started on the same day.

 

24 minutes ago, Venandi said:

You'd be better off arguing that the system was never designed for the level of demand being asked of it in that scenario. That admission would foster the idea of pre-emptive planning for most people. At a minimum, it could be constructively applied to future planning after a disastrous failure.

But I think you know that too.

The fencing match is over... can't help ya.

[Venandi]

From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."

How do I get one of these?

[Aristides]

15 minutes ago, Venandi said:

 

 

 

The fencing match is over... can't help ya.

If you seek knowledge you can find it. You can also just make accusations based on made up shit.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/la-fires-santa-ynez-reservoir-pacific-palisades-california/

F*ck all to do with Newsom or fish.

Edited January 14, 2025 by Aristides

[User]

28 minutes ago, Venandi said:

From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."

How do I get one of these?

Well, about this time he was posting a bunch of garbage threads every day and I consistently called him out on each and everyone for the lies he was telling. 

He got tired of it. Sent me that lovely message then put me on ignore. 

 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Venandi said:

From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."

How do I get one of these?

Keep making intelligent posts with lots of facts.  He still listens for some reason if all you do is point and laugh like the other posters

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, User said:

Then let me be clear, had the 117 million gallon reservoir been filled, had they had better infrastructure with more tanks and pumps, they certainly could have protected many homes and neighborhoods from this fire. 

Sure, too bad when the need to spend money for all this stuff is even slightly related to climate change it gets shouted down by because it's too woke, farmers start screaming bloody murder, smelts...it's always something.

Why fire hydrants and water supply failed during Los Angeles wildfires

The rescue efforts in the Palisades were hindered by low pressure in the water supply at elevated areas...

....Kearns co-authored a report in 2021, discussing potential solutions to California’s water infrastructure woes in the face of wildfires.

Some suggestions for this particular challenge included creating backup power supplies for water infrastructure like pumps and installing larger pipes for fire flows,” Kearns said. “Some of the questions moving forward will be about costs – some of the thousands of water providers in California are relatively well resourced and many others are not – and risk tolerance. I hope these events will lead to a larger conversation about how to help water providers adapt to climate change.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2025/1/13/why-fire-hydrants-and-water-supply-failed-during-los-angeles-wildfires

 

What we really need to have is a conversation on how to adapt to right wingers because it's painfully obvious you people are the biggest impediment to the allocation of funding. The minute someone says climate change your stupid heads explode.