A simple solution to reduce the number of murders in Canada

[I am Groot]

Look. The crime problem in this country is directly related to the way our academics, influenced by their American counterparts, have successfully spread an ideology of guilt and shame about our history. This has led to nonsense like the Gladue ruling, and rules and laws meant to create a two-tier criminal justice system that offers gentle slaps on the wrist to non-white offenders - who are the majority of violent criminals.

Why, is it, I wonder, that we descendants of the British are the only people on Earth who are required to feel shame about our ancestors? No matter how bloody or brutal their ancestors were, people in the rest of the world are proud of their success, of their conquests, of their savage victories over others. And shrug off everything from slavery to human sacrifice. That includes indigenous people. None are ashamed of their ancestors' brutality and slavery. They're proud of them. Only we need to feel shame, to grovel, and make amends for them. It's bullshit. It's the pseudo-intellectual ravings of third-class academics who should be dragged bodily out of schools and universities and tossed into the gutter, never to be allowed back.

[I am Groot]

1 minute ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

It is not allegedly. It is a fact Israeli military has killed thousands of defenseless civilians past 15 months most of them women and children and yes I oppose Israel in doing so. In order to minimize Israeli military casualties they don't send soldiers in to combat hand to hand with terrorists but instead resort to bombardment or missile attacks from a distance hitting schools and hospitals where they very well know there are many civilians there in the hope of killing a few terrorists among them hundreds of defenseless civilians. Everyone should condemn these actions.

 I don't know how much you know about the history of warfare, especially as carried out in heavily populated urban environments, but the casualties the Palestinian 'civilians' have suffered due to this war are probably the lowest of any peoples in modern history. From what I have read in this kind of environment, the death toll among the civilian populace is something like 10 for every 1 combatant. In Gaza it's closer to 1-1. And the majority of those civilians appear to be the relatives of fighters who were in their homes together.

You should bear in mind that Hamas does not distinguish between military casualties and civilians when it reports deaths. It makes no mention of whether the people killed were fighters or those related to them. 

Should the families be considered innocent? Most of the Israeli hostages who have returned reported being held in the houses of Hamas fighters, taunted, beaten and tormented by them AND their families. Thousands of Palestinian civilians eagerly joined the attack on Israel once the fences were knocked down, and the civilians in the street cheered and cried in joy at the great 'victory' as their fighters turned laden with helpless hostages.

There was a notorious phone call one of these terrorists placed to his parents from Israel "Your son has killed ten Jews!" The parents were overjoyed, crying with pride in their son. Do they bear no responsibility for putting hatred in his heart and head? Do the parents of the thousands of other terrorists? 

Gaza elected Hamas. Gaza supported them. Gaza cheered on every terrorist attack on Israeli civilians. Now they are getting their just deserts. Screw them. 

[Venandi]

39 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

I don't know how much you know about the history of warfare, especially as carried out in heavily populated urban environments, but the casualties the Palestinian 'civilians' have suffered due to this war are probably the lowest of any peoples in modern history.

Given the circumstances, they are indeed.

Considering the population density and the fact that total numbers also include Hamas fighters, it stands as a model for any (and all) future operations in high density urban environments. And that's in spite of the fact that Hamas routinely (and deliberately) uses human shields... which is a war crime.

I have repeatedly asked those opposed to the Israeli action how they would negotiate with Hamas to no avail. Hamas is not driven by political objectives, they're driven by religious ones and there is no negotiating with them IMO but I stand ready to be schooled by outstanding ideas.

Don't bother even replying until you have one BTW, it's a dead issue without one.

 There's a video floating around here of a Canadian Hamas supporter with a radical FU attitude directed at Canadians. People should watch that video and outline their plan for negotiating with him...

If you can't do that, you bring nothing to the table except strong opinion and reality suggests it will be ignored. On the other hand, if you have a workable plan, there's a Nobel Peace Prize with your name on it.

In the absence of that, Hamas will convert most of the aid they receive into missiles, tunnels, training and population beat downs until they are strong enough to strike Israel again. I't the way of things and wishing it wasn't so doesn't make it not so.

 

Edited December 22, 2024 by Venandi

[eyeball]

5 minutes ago, Venandi said:

Considering the population density and the fact that total numbers also include Hamas fighters, it stands as a model for any (and all) future operations in high density urban environments.

Sure, it's been at least as benign and considerate as the rest of the Naqba.

6 minutes ago, Venandi said:

I have repeatedly asked those opposed to the Israeli action how they would negotiate with Hamas to no avail. Hamas is not driven by political objectives, they're driven by religious ones and there is no negotiating with them IMO but I stand ready to be schooled by outstanding ideas.

Stop trying to negotiate with terrorists and talk to the Palestinian Authority instead. Try to get Jews and Palestinians who are married involved as well.

10 minutes ago, Venandi said:

If you can't do that, you bring nothing to the table except strong opinion and reality suggests it will be ignored.

Ditto and probably for at least another generation or two or three.

[I am Groot]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Sure, it's been at least as benign and considerate as the rest of the Naqba.

Stop using bullshit Palestinian words. Some Palestinians were certainly threatened and left. Some left out of the general fear of war. Others left because Arab nations around them told them to. So what? There's absolutely NOTHING about that which is unique. Fourteen million Sudanese have fled war. Today! No one cares. No one cares about the million Jews forced out of surrounding Arab countries either.

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Stop trying to negotiate with terrorists and talk to the Palestinian Authority instead. Try to get Jews and Palestinians who are married involved as well.

The Palestinian Authority has no authority. It's derisively dismissed among Palestinians, even on the West Bank, and at the moment is fighting off Hamas and other Islamic fighters.

 

[Venandi]

21 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Ditto and probably for at least another generation or two or three.

I think you're right.

We can simplify things even further though. Farm boys will immediately get the analogy of peace negotiations with a mink (assuming you have chickens of ducks).

You can buy proprietary mink food and put it in a silver bowl as a peace offering and it won't work. The mink will kill every single chicken (and or duck) it can get its teeth into. Not just one BTW, each and every one he can get a hold of before you or the dog can get there.

You don't negotiate with a mink, and they're territorial too... they aren't going away and they can't be appeased. I trap them or shoot them on sight... here's the thing though, give me a workable plan and I'll happily stop doing that.  

This is that.

In reality, all the Palestinians have to do is the same thing that mink has to do... NOTHING.  As a bonus for doing fu%$#@ nothing, breakfast lunch and supper is on me. 

Reality and painful experience suggests there will be no mink or Palestinian takers though.

Edited December 22, 2024 by Venandi

[Venandi]

37 minutes ago, eyeball said:

....as benign and considerate as the rest of the Naqba.

Like many here, you need to let go of history and deal with the here and now.

History is interesting from a clinical perspective and it can certainly shape the cultural topography but as a dog would observe, you can't eat it or screw it... and that's all the dog cares about. 

I'm not trying to be harsh here BTW, I don't like any of this any more than you do, it's just that I've spent enough time there to think that without a binding (and incremental) plan, Palestinians (and mink) will remain incapable of doing the very nothing that it takes to achieve an amicable resolution. 

Watch the video of that Canadian Hamas supporter and keep in mind he's in Canada, the Jews he attacks are in Canada, none of them have the slightest amount of influence on the situation and I've probable spent more time in Gaza that he has. 

How do you fix that?

Edited December 22, 2024 by Venandi

[NAME REMOVED]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Look. The crime problem in this country is directly related to the way our academics, influenced by their American counterparts, have successfully spread an ideology of guilt and shame about our history. This has led to nonsense like the Gladue ruling, and rules and laws meant to create a two-tier criminal justice system that offers gentle slaps on the wrist to non-white offenders - who are the majority of violent criminals.

This is completely false. In fact, the opposite is true. Caucasians are far less likely to go to prison than Black or Indigenous people. In Canada Indigenous people have eight times the incarceration rate of the general public. 

"Differences in the length of imprisonment across demographic groups were concentrated among individuals who received relatively short sentences. Among individuals sentenced to 18 months or less incarceration, Black males received lengths of incarceration 6.8 percent longer than White males."

https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/2023-demographic-differences-federal-sentencing#:~:text=Differences in the length of imprisonment across demographic groups were,percent longer than White males.

Edited December 22, 2024 by DUI_Offender

[I am Groot]

16 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

This is completely false. In fact, the opposite is true. Caucasians are far less likely to go to prison than Black or Indigenous people.

Yeah. They're also far less likely to be involved in drive-by shootings, stabbings, and other forms of gang and drug violence.

16 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

In Canada Indigenous people have eight times the incarceration rate of the general public. 

And also commit a greatly disproportionate amount of crime, especially violent crime. The highest crime areas of Canada are always those adjacent to native reserves or cities with high numbers of natives like Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Thunder Bay.

Your cite is from the US and not relevant.

 

[NAME REMOVED]

15 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Yeah. They're also far less likely to be involved in drive-by shootings, stabbings, and other forms of gang and drug violence.

And also commit a greatly disproportionate amount of crime, especially violent crime. The highest crime areas of Canada are always those adjacent to native reserves or cities with high numbers of natives like Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Thunder Bay.

Translation: "Blacks and Natives are subhuman thugs, who are criminals, White people do not commit these types of crimes."

15 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Your cite is from the US and not relevant.

What you said a couple of hours ago:

15 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

 The crime problem in this country is directly related to the way our academics, influenced by their American counterparts, have successfully spread an ideology of guilt and shame about our history.

If it is irrelevant, why are you bringing up America?

[CITIZEN_2015]

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

 

There was a notorious phone call one of these terrorists placed to his parents from Israel "Your son has killed ten Jews!" The parents were overjoyed, crying with pride in their son. Do they bear no responsibility for putting hatred in his heart and head?  

No the Israeli army is responsible for putting hatred in his heart. What do you expect when your grandparents are made homeless by immigrant jews 70 years ago, your parents were killed by Israeli bombardments last year or 10 years ago, your brothers and sisters killed by bombardments? Love? No nothing but brutal hatred. Look what you made me do!. You made me defend my enemies

[CITIZEN_2015]

1 hour ago, Venandi said:

 

I have repeatedly asked those opposed to the Israeli action how they would negotiate with Hamas to no avail. Hamas is not driven by political objectives, they're driven by religious ones and there is no negotiating with them

 

Don't negotiate with them. Just kill them. But spare those civilians caught in crossfire. 

Israel has shown they can avoid civilian casualties if they like the civilian population. For example in their latest attack on Islamic Republic they did not kill a single civilian while completely destroying Iranian air defense systems and many other sites because they knew the nation of Iran are mostly pro-Israel and will welcome Israelis helping them to change the evil regime taken them hostage. Netanyahu is very popular in Iran so they didn't wish to cause casualties on Iranians. But in Gaza they didn't care because they know they are hated by population. Instead of arial bombardment killing civilians they should have sent soldiers in for hand to hand combat with armed terrorists and kill mostly the terrorists at the expense of much more casualties on themselves but the world would not be so critical of them now. 

Edited December 22, 2024 by CITIZEN_2015

[Venandi]

35 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Don't negotiate with them. Just kill them. But spare those civilians caught in crossfire. 

That is the essence and objective of the response.

Minks and chickens... maybe only farm folk get that eh? 

[CdnFox]

38 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Don't negotiate with them. Just kill them. But spare those civilians caught in crossfire. 

 

How does that work? Hamas is putting the civilians directly in line of the fire so how do you spare them? Are you hoping to invent bullets that will hit or dodge people on their own based on moral criteria?

All you can do is push forward and accept the civillian loses and end the evil once and for all so that nobody has to suffer like that again on either side. 

[Venandi]

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

How does that work? Hamas is putting the civilians directly in line of the fire so how do you spare them?

Hard to compensate for the war crimes of opposing forces, this is multi layered (several separate threads actually) and they're doing much better than expected in a challenging, high density, urban environment. 

 

Edited December 22, 2024 by Venandi

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Venandi said:

You don't negotiate with a mink, and they're territorial too... they aren't going away and they can't be appeased. I trap them or shoot them on sight... here's the thing though, give me a workable plan and I'll happily stop doing that.  

Raise your chickens and ducks where the mink or dogs can't get at them. I had a neighbour move in next door and she let her chickens run around like they owned the place. We also have mink plus bears, wolves, cougars and of course the other neighbours dogs and everything is running around like they own the place so...

My cats and I would sit on the porch eating popcorn and watch.

1 hour ago, Venandi said:

Like many here, you need to let go of history and deal with the here and now.

Sure.

1 hour ago, Venandi said:

How do you fix that?

Build an impenetrable wall around the chickens so nothing can get in.

The lady next door gave up and moved.

[Gaétan]

16 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Money is a collateral effect of people wanting stuff. The way to get rid of murder then is to get rid of people wanting stuff.  Including pretty women and, for the diddlers, small children.

All people want stuff, when you abolish money stuff are free of charge and people can take what ever they want to take., then don't need to commit murder to get money to take it.

Edited December 22, 2024 by Gaétan

[Venandi]

27 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Build an impenetrable wall around the chickens so nothing can get in.

What if they fly over it... ring any bells?

Guess we're not talking about mink anymore eh? Same mentality though... and that's the problem. Your lady friend next door had the option of moving, Israel doesn't. 

I'd also observe that you and your cats (metaphorically speaking) are representative of the world at large and most of the comments on this forum.

 

Edited December 22, 2024 by Venandi

[CITIZEN_2015]

40 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

How does that work? Hamas is putting the civilians directly in line of the fire so how do you spare them? Are you hoping to invent bullets that will hit or dodge people on their own based on moral criteria?

All you can do is push forward and accept the civillian loses and end the evil once and for all so that nobody has to suffer like that again on either side. 

I have already said how, Sending soldiers in for hand to hand combat with terrorists instead of how they do now. They bomb a school or hospitals well knowing there are hundreds of children and sick and elderly seeking refuge there and also they know terrorists are using to launch missiles. In the process they kill a few terrorists and destroy missile sites but at the same time kill hundreds of people including mostly women and children. I rather see a few thousand more Israeli casualties than 50,000 civilian casualties. Israel is a democracy. They must not act like Assad of Syria or Hussain of Iraq or Hitler of Germany.

[Venandi]

51 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

when you abolish money stuff are free of charge and people can take what ever they want to take.

I now know you don't volunteer at a food bank or distribute grocery store gift cards on behalf of charitable organizations.

There is no need to abolish money to prove that people will take advantage of any system to the point that it becomes untenable... without the supervision of people you would likely object to that is.

I'm rooting for ya, but it's just not what I see in the real world.  In fact, I'm always surprised that the people trying to run scams don't realize that we all know each other... Sometimes it's actually funny.

 

[eyeball]

50 minutes ago, Venandi said:

What if they fly over it... ring any bells?

It'll have to be more than just a wall.  I've mentioned before I think the solution for at least a couple of generations is a permanent international peace keeping force.

56 minutes ago, Venandi said:

Guess we're not talking about mink anymore eh? Same mentality though... and that's the problem. Your lady friend next door had the option of moving, Israel doesn't. 

Sure they do. We don't send Jewish refugees back to Europe and we've long since decided Jews are welcome here.

58 minutes ago, Venandi said:

I'd also observe that you and your cats (metaphorically speaking) are representative of the world at large and most of the comments on this forum.

Yup, but eventually it got out of control and became more than just a pain in the ass.

We also had to put up with chickens digging up our yard, dead chickens in the yard and dangerous predators roaming around the neighborhood.

You seem to be suggesting I should have been trapping and shooting the minks, bears, wolves, cougars and neighbors dogs. Why? Everything was peaceful before the chickens were introduced. The whole neighborhood not to mention regional district staff, wildlife officers and police finally got fed up with things and finally had to step in to keep the peace.

So yeah, I suggest someone in authority take charge of the situation before people start shooting up the neighbourhood.

 

 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

 

The lady next door gave up and moved.

I doubt it was because of the chickens   

[I am Groot]

5 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

Translation: "Blacks and Natives are subhuman thugs, who are criminals, White people do not commit these types of crimes."

It seems you don't understand English any more than you understand basic logic. There are underlying socioeconomic and cultural reasons behind the disproportionate amount of violent crime coming from natives and blacks. But there's no doubting it IS greatly disproportionate.

5 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

What you said a couple of hours ago:

If it is irrelevant, why are you bringing up America?

It's relevant to how we became infected with the American Woke virus. It's not relevant to crime statistics in Canada.

[NAME REMOVED]

5 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

 

It's relevant to how we became infected with the American Woke virus. It's not relevant to crime statistics in Canada.

Once crime is blamed on an imaginary thing like the "American Woke Virus," it's time to bow out of this conversation.

[I am Groot]

5 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

No the Israeli army is responsible for putting hatred in his heart. What do you expect when your grandparents are made homeless by immigrant jews 70 years ago, your parents were killed by Israeli bombardments last year or 10 years ago, your brothers and sisters killed by bombardments? Love? No nothing but brutal hatred. Look what you made me do!. You made me defend my enemies

 The vicious fighting between Arabs and Jews goes back well beyond 70 years. And probably is due more to the antisemitism in the Quran than anything the Jews actually did. There's an awful lot of pretty vicious, hateful anti Jew stuff in that book.

But let's put things even more clearly. In 1948 after the Arabs refused to accept the UN plan and attacked Israel and LOST, the West Bank became part of Jordan while the Gaza Strip was taken over by Egypt. No Palestine! 

As for the Arabs who left Israel itself, well, if they'd have stayed they'd have been fine, just like the millions of Arabs there now. 

And perhaps the homes of the Arabs who fled Israel proper were then filled by Jews chased out of surrounding Arab countries. They were all accepted into Israel and made citizens. The Arabs, though, the ones who left? The surrounding Arab states refused to accept them, refused to give them citizenship. 

It's a cruel world, but the primary responsibility for what happened to people back then should be laid on the Arab states. And the primary responsibility for what is happening to Palestinians now and in the last several decades is on their own heads and that of their leaders for refusing to stop committing terrorist and guerrilla attacks on Israel.

Just now, DUI_Offender said:

Once crime is blamed on an imaginary thing like the "American Woke Virus," it's time to bow out of this conversation.

Then you never should have entered it.