Can someone explain to me why abortion is this giant issue?

[Fluffypants]

I literally saw a man on the street video where he was talking to a Lesbian and asking why she was voting for Kamala and she said it is because she may want to have an abortion someday. It hurts my head sometimes.

I am like Trump with abortion, I thinks its a states issue and shouldn't be performed after 15 weeks.

I may not like it but it doesn't really effect me either so its not a deal breaker issue for me.

[CdnFox]

Oh boy. Let me get a whiteboard....

First off you need to understand that people on the left revel in being professionally offended and hurt on behalf of someone else. So even though the lesbian is unlikely to ever need an abortion it's very natural for her to be completely offended on behalf of those who do.

Secondly, the left rarely thinks for itself. There are a number of causes that the left has committed to and the very fact that they're committed to it is proof enough for many of their followers that the cause is just and should be defended to the death. The lesbian in question apparently hasn't realized that Joe Biden already is in power and Kamala is his vice, so if it was a possibility to do what she is saying they would have already done it. And if they wouldn't do it then then they won't do it in the future. Further, anything they could do could be easily undone by the next Pro-choice government so it would be meaningless. It would make far more sense to fight those battles in the states for a variety of reasons

Thirdly the left is very seized with women's rights to the point of idiocy and they believe this is a woman's rights issue. Of course, they are absolutely wrong. This is a question of whether or not the fetus has rights. If the fetus is a human being or a person then you're not allowed to kill it. If it isn't then why are we even having this conversation. But because they can't understand that and are simply repeating the idea that it's about women's rights without comprehending the issue in the slightest they turn to anger violence and emotion rather than logic or reason.

Sadly, that's the short version. I will just remind you that research has proven that democrat women tend to have more mental health issues, especially the younger ones

[Fluffypants]

Here is in other one to tee up.

I get why rape is good reason to have an abortion because it non consensual, make sense

Why is incest like in the same category as rape, there is consensual incest and just having a baby with your sister doesn't mean there will be anything wrong with it. It is an increase chance, sure, but more often than not it is just a regular baby. If you watch Game of Thrones only one the Lannister kids was messed up but that may of had nothing to do with the incest but just him being a little shit like some people are.

[West]

49 minutes ago, Fluffypants said:

I literally saw a man on the street video where he was talking to a Lesbian and asking why she was voting for Kamala and she said it is because she may want to have an abortion someday. It hurts my head sometimes.

I am like Trump with abortion, I thinks its a states issue and shouldn't be performed after 15 weeks.

I may not like it but it doesn't really effect me either so its not a deal breaker issue for me.

If I had to guess it's because Big Pharma dumps billions into lobbying efforts and utilizes psychological warfare on women so that they vote how they want. The issue is never really the issue but rather the issue is a method of keeping the grift going. 

It's much the same as the transing of kids. Some whacko is getting rich of mutilating and sterilizing children. 

Rogan and Vance made good points on how sadistic some of these lobbyists are where they are paying off Indian tribes to get them hooked on opioid as a way to get around existing law. 

[Aristides]

It wasn’t a big issue until MAGA’s made it one and now they are reaping the consequences. 
They think the solution is to call women stupid and that they need to be told what’s good for them.

Edited November 2, 2024 by Aristides

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

First off you need to understand that people on the left revel in being professionally offended and hurt on behalf of someone else. So even though the lesbian is unlikely to ever need an abortion it's very natural for her to be completely offended on behalf of those who do

Translation:  most people, including many self-described conservatives believe in something called “rights” rather than simply only caring for themselves and their own personal circumstances . So even though a person may never need an abortion it’s very natural for them to support those who do.  In addition unlike the right the left understands that lesbians like all women can and do get pregnant, can do get sexually assaulted, can and do get abortions if the pregnancy is unviable or unwanted. 
 

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Secondly, the left rarely thinks for itself. There are a number of causes that the left has committed to and the very fact that they're committed to it is proof enough for many of their followers that the cause is just and should be defended to the death. The lesbian in question apparently hasn't realized that Joe Biden already is in power and Kamala is his vice, so if it was a possibility to do what she is saying they would have already done it. And if they wouldn't do it then then they won't do it in the future. Further, anything they could do could be easily undone by the next Pro-choice government so it would be meaningless. It would make far more sense to fight those battles in the states for a variety of reasons

Translation:  the right very rarely thinks for itself. Overturning abortion rights is a cause the right has committed to and the very fact that the right has committed to it is proof enough for many of their followers that the cause is just and should be defended to the death. Abortion bans fail every time they’re put to a popular vote even in red states but since Republican party leadership has made a deal with the religious right to include this in their agenda, a large number of mindless Republicans who previously couldn’t have cared less about abortion now parrot the new party line. 
 

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Thirdly the left is very seized with women's rights to the point of idiocy and they believe this is a woman's rights issue. Of course, they are absolutely wrong. This is a question of whether or not the fetus has rights. If the fetus is a human being or a person then you're not allowed to kill it. If it isn't then why are we even having this conversation. But because they can't understand that and are simply repeating the idea that it's about women's rights without comprehending the issue in the slightest they turn to anger violence and emotion rather than logic or reason.

Thirdly unlike the right, the left believes in women’s rights and correctly understood this is a woman’s rights issue which is absolutely correct. It is an established fact in every country that embryos and fetuses don’t have rights and anti-abortionists don’t intend to consider fetuses as humans with rights for any other purpose EXCEPT abortion. Many on the right support in anti-abortion to the point of idiocy, wanting to ban IVF treatments, morning after pills birth control, reciting absurd lies like claiming it’s biologically impossible for a rape victim to become pregnant, or believe that women and even raped children should be forced to carry life-threatening pregnancies to term even if the fetus is determined to be non-viable. But because they can’t understand that and are simply repeating the idea that this is only about fetuses’s rights without comprehending the issue in the slightest they tuen to anger, violence and emotion rather than logic or reason. And let’s be clear on that last point: it’s anti-abortionists who have been  doing the bombings and the shootings and the death threats and the violence, not the other way around. Anti-abortionists apply zero logic and reason, which is anathema to religious beliefs. 

 

 

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Translation:  most people, including many self-described conservatives believe in something called “rights” rather than simply only caring for themselves and their own personal circumstances . So even though a person may never need an abortion it’s very natural for them to support those who do.  In addition unlike the right the left understands that lesbians like all women can and do get pregnant, can do get sexually assaulted, can and do get abortions if the pregnancy is unviable or unwanted. 
 

Translation of the translation you were right and me big mad about it so I'll pretend you said something completely different and argue that.

This isn't about rights. Or more accurately it's not about the rights of the woman. If you gave a shit about rights you would also give a shit it as to whether or not the child has rights. Conservatives care about everybody's rights. Liberals care about the rights of the people their professionally buthurt on behalf of.

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Translation:  the right very rarely thinks for itself. 

So basically what you're saying at this point is you don't really understand what the word translation means  

In your case it seems to me you were right and again I'm going to try and say something else because I can't cope with the fact that you're right

Nobody overturned anybody's rights. The supreme court at one point made an interpretation of the constitution and even though abortion is not mentioned in the constitution they felt that under a specific clause it should be covered. That was always a very contentious ruling and was on thin ice to begin with. A subsequent judge has said that the original ruling was incorrect and that the constitution does not apply to abortion.

That's it. So if you want the constitution to apply to abortion rights all you need to do is make an amendment. There are tons of amendments to the constitution. It is much easier to amend the constitution than it is to amend the Canadian constitution. Get everyone together and get them to agree that it's a right and you're done.

Except that most Americans don't believe it's a right at all. They believe that women should have access to it up to a certain point but most people think that point is somewhere in the neighborhood of about the first to midway through the second trimester at the latest. The vast majority seem to agree that killing something 2 minutes before it's born is actually killing a child.
 

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Thirdly unlike the right, the left believes in women’s rights and correctly understood this is a woman’s rights issue 

It isn't. It's patently stupid to argue that it is. We don't argue to women's right to a Wart removal. We don't argue about a woman's right to a tonsillectomy. It's naturally understood that if it's a normal medical procedure affecting only the woman that it's not a question of rights and there's nothing to discuss.

The reason that this is different is because there's another person involved. And that person has rights too. They have the right not to be killed out of hand.

The question becomes when is that second person arriving on the scene? After birth? At conception? Some other point?

That's the only debate here. Women's rights don't come into it at all. That is an emotional argument made by the left in order to try and weaponize women's vaginas and frankly it's a little disgusting. Either the baby is a person or it isn't and that's really the only question
 

[BeaverFever]

30 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

This isn't about rights. Or more accurately it's not about the rights of the woman. If you gave a shit about rights you would also give a shit it as to whether or not the child has rights. Conservatives care about everybody's rights. Liberals care about the rights of the people their professionally buthurt on behalf of.

Bullshit,  it is about the rights of the women. Embryos and fetuses aren’t children as a point of fact, evidenced by the further fact that nowhere on earth do they have rights   Conservatives are the last people on earth to care about “rights” except their own   Conservatives spend a huge amount of their time complaining about certain groups of people having too many rights (immigrants, minorities, LGBTQ, etc.)Conservatives are the ones who have attempted to use the notwithstanding clause for trivial reasons  like gay marriage and the composition of Toronto city council. Conservatives have no concept of rights at all just a few pet issues like  guns and abortion. Everything else they claim as a right in reality they want only for themselves but not groups they dislike, ie not really a right  

 

30 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Nobody overturned anybody's right

Yes before the USSC made its spurious ruling there was a constitutional right to access abortion.  No longer  

 

30 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

That was always a very contentious ruling and was on thin ice to begin with. A subsequent judge has said that the original ruling was incorrect and that the constitution does not apply to abortion.

The Roe decision had stood for a half century and survived previous challenges   The conservative USSC simply ignored all of the previous rulings and challenges and issued their ruling as if those never happened and rendered their own decision as if it was the first time a challenge had been heard instead of recognized previous arguments which is how it’s apparently supposed to work  

 

30 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Except that most Americans don't believe it's a right at all. They believe that women should have access to it up to a certain point but most people think that point is somewhere in the neighborhood of about the first to midway through the second trimester at the latest. The vast majority seem to agree that killing something 2 minutes before it's born is actually killing a child.

1) And yet most republicans don’t the American people to vote on it at all because they know what they’re planning is not what people want

2) nobody kills a baby 2 minutes before it’s born that’s a lie. Late terms abortion are not only so rare that they’re practically a statical zero but they’re only contemplated in the most extreme scenarios where the fetus is already not viable and mothers life is at risk if an abortion is not immediately performed 

Edited November 2, 2024 by BeaverFever

[CdnFox]

13 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Bullshit,  it is about the rights of the women.

Try not to be stupid. When did anyone ever try and stop a woman from having a wart removed? When did anyone ever try and stop a woman from having cancer removed? Or they're spleen?

The only reason this is an issue is with regards to the rights of the child. Or at least the perceived rights of the child.

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Embryos and fetuses aren’t children as a point of fact, evidenced by the further fact that nowhere on earth do they have rights  

Kid, sometimes you show great promise as being someone that could be raised up into a decent thinker. Today is not one of those times.

You literally just made the argument that something should be considered  true because something is considered true. The ultimate in circular logic.

Very simple fact is that until extremely recently this was not something that would have actually been an issue. Humans ability to affect children or even detect that the child looked like a human or had a separate brain that was functioning is outrageously recent in our history. We're still sorting all of this out.

Hell kid, women weren't even considered to be people until about 100 years ago. There are still a lot of unanswered questions in our society that we're working on.

But hey, you can settle this whole problem for us right now! Obviously you have all the answers so explain medically and morally when a human becomes a human.  Somewhere between unfertlized egg and college the creature went from being a collection of cells to being a person with human rights attached.  GIve me a definition of that moment and explain why legally biologically and morally that makes sense. 

Go!  Lets hear it  

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Conservatives are the last people on earth to care about “rights” except their own  

conservatives are the only people who care about other people's rights. Liberals care about free speech when they're talking or people they like or talking, but they want to end it the moment somebody they don't like talks. Liberals demand that it's a woman's body a woman's choice, yet we're happy to applaud forcing people to take the vaccine when they didn't want to or suffer severe penalties. Liberals support a person's right to decide what their sex is, but don't support their right to their religion. They support blacks having the right to celebrate their blackness but are horrified at the idea of a white celebrating his whiteness.

I could go on for quite a while here. Conservatives Care about everybody's rights. Liberals care about their causes and nothing else

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The Roe decision had stood for a half century

Slavery stood longer and was overturned as well. The length of time that somebody was wrong doesn't indicate that they weren't wrong

 

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Yes before the USSC made its spurious ruling there was a constitutional right to access abortion.  No longer  

People had the mistaken belief they did but they did not.

 

27 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

1) And yet most republicans don’t the American people to vote on it at all because they know what they’re planning is not what people want

Aside from that fact that that sentence made no sense, it didn't address what I said. Most Americans don't believe it should be a right. Or to be more accurate they believe it should be a very limited right. Most Americans according to polling do not believe that roe versus Wade was the right decision. That includes an awful lot of democrats. And that's why nobody wants to try and make it a part of the constitution.

28 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

) nobody kills a baby 2 minutes before it’s born that’s a lie.

That has literally happened many many times. In fact sometimes during the abortion the baby is actually born and is alive outside of the mother's body. The doctors make it as comfortable as they can and wait for it to die.

This is happened. We've been over this a million times, it absolutely does happen.

But let me put it back to you then - if it never happens what's wrong with having a law saying it can't happen?

The last fast majority of Americans believe that abortion should be limited probably to somewhere in the neighborhood of the first trimester. They do not believe it should be an open-ended right the way that you do.

Because at the end of the day they believe that at some point that baby is a person. And we don't kill babies or people. So it has nothing to do with women's rights