Mulroney 1993 vs Trudeau Snr 1984 vs Harper 2015 vs Trudeau Jnr 2024

[Michael Hardner]

9 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

having fallen back into the grips of a Maoist cult of the personality totalitarian regime

in the face of a demographic and associated economic collapse

under siege with mortal enemies on all sides

plausibly under threat of internal revolts

the CCP is all the more likely to resort to desperate measures

to include inciting a foreign war in order to maintain domestic order

awake, Eagle with thunderbolts in talons grasped

no foreign giant shall drink a drop from the Mississippi

It's not like the people who have seen their standard of living accelerate would embrace a return to Maoism

 

If that's what you're saying, I can't tell.

[Dougie93]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

It's not like the people who have seen their standard of living accelerate would embrace a return to Maoism

Xi Jinping has already established said cult of the personality regime

that is the result, not the cause,  of the demographic collapse into economic disorder

there is nothing more dangerous than a wounded and cornered adversary

Si vis pacem parbellum

[Dougie93]

25 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

If that's what you're saying, I can't tell.

perhaps you assume that Communist dictatorships collapse peacefully

of their own accord by Glasnost & Perestroika

every single time

which would be optimal, since all Communist dictatorships are ultimately doomed to collapse

seems unlikely tho, that Mikhail Gorbachev will be letting us down easy invariably

in fact, I would suggest that the peaceful collapse of the Soviet Union was the exception not the rule

glorious as it was at the time; when we were those "children of tomorrow" in 1989

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

perhaps you assume that Communist dictatorships collapse peacefully

of their own accord by Glasnost & Perestroika

every single time

which would be optimal, since all Communist dictatorships are ultimately doomed to collapse

seems unlikely tho, that Mikhail Gorbachev will be letting us down easy invariably

in fact, I would suggest that the peaceful collapse of the Soviet Union was the exception not the rule

glorious as it was at the time; when we were those "children of tomorrow" in 1989

What other examples are you providing then?

[Dougie93]

14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

What other examples are you providing then?

to your example ; the collapse of Communist China

the CCP is aware of what happened to the Soviets,

and it's quite clear that they are not going down without a fight like that

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

to your example ; the collapse of Communist China

the CCP is aware of what happened to the Soviets,

and it's quite clear that they are not going down without a fight like that

"perhaps you assume that Communist dictatorships collapse peacefully of their own accord by Glasnost & Perestroikae very single time"

I think I only have the Soviet Union and it's satellites as examples. So yes, that's my assumption.

If you have another example, even a non-communist one, we can look at that. 

This is probably going to be an educational discussion for me, because I do not have what I consider to be deep knowledge of the collapse of political economies in the modern time.

[eyeball]

9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

This is probably going to be an educational discussion for me, because I do not have what I consider to be deep knowledge of the collapse of political economies in the modern time.

Wouldn't the term politicized economies be more appropriate as opposed to, I don't know, systemic economies?

In any case without something directly accounting for the natural ecosystems in which human economies occur they're likely oversubscribed and unsustainable, especially on a planet with close to 10 billion consumers.

[Michael Hardner]

17 minutes ago, eyeball said:

1. Wouldn't the term politicized economies be more appropriate as opposed to, I don't know, systemic economies?

2. In any case without something directly accounting for the natural ecosystems in which human economies occur they're likely oversubscribed and unsustainable, especially on a planet with close to 10 billion consumers.

1. I think 'political economy' is a standard term though.
2. All true, but how humans wield power is clearly the important fulcrum.

[Dougie93]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

"perhaps you assume that Communist dictatorships collapse peacefully of their own accord by Glasnost & Perestroikae very single time"

I think I only have the Soviet Union and it's satellites as examples. So yes, that's my assumption.

If you have another example, even a non-communist one, we can look at that. 

This is probably going to be an educational discussion for me, because I do not have what I consider to be deep knowledge of the collapse of political economies in the modern time.

well first off,  I would argue that Venezuela, Cuba & Nicaragua have already collapsed

their economies are in ruins, with standards of living well below the Soviet Union

yet there is no Latin American Gorbachev, quite the opposite

but bear in mind that all the Warsaw Pact countries also collapsed with the Soviets

and the best example of a catastrophic Communist collapse was Yugoslavia

degenerating into one of the worst civil wars in history

Edited September 27, 2024 by Dougie93

[Michael Hardner]

16 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

1. well first off,  I would argue that Venezuela, Cuba & Nicaragua have already collapsed

2 ... their economies are in ruins, with standards of living well below the Soviet Union

3. yet there is no Latin American Gorbachev, quite the opposite

4. but bear in mind that all the Warsaw Pact countries also collapsed with the Soviets

5. and the best example of a catastrophic Communist collapse was Yugoslavia degenerating into one of the worst civil wars in history

1. Well, ok but the governments stand and if they did, there was no military aggression of note except maybe Colombia whatever that was.
2. Ok.
3. Ok.
4. Ok.
5. Ok.  That was separate states united into a Socialist Republic that turned against each other.  But ok.
 

I thought we were talking about China's demise impacting us in ways other than economically.   

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

 Ok.  That was separate states united into a Socialist Republic that turned against each other.  But ok.
 

it was the economic collapse which incited the various factions to go to war against each other

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I thought we were talking about China's demise impacting us in ways other than economically.   

well in the case of China I would suggest the threat would be revanchism

to wit, instead of Chinese Gorbachev we get Chinese Putin

[Dougie93]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

 Well, ok but the governments stand and if they did, there was no military aggression

because the military forces in those Communist countries have also been destroyed therein

in the case of Russia however, the Kremlin leverages the Soviet stockpile & infrastructure, post collapse

similar threat from China in the event of economic catastrophe

[August1991]

On 9/26/2024 at 4:59 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

Do most schools in Quebec sing the Canadian national anthem or fly the Canadian flag?

Canada is a cold country.

[August1991]

Thinking back, far back.

St-Laurent stayed too long.

Diefenbacher stayed too long.

Harper stayed - and clearly lost.

Mulroney and Trudeau Snr walked away.

====

Harper was correct

 

Edited October 11, 2024 by August1991