Isreal and Palestine

[GostHacked]

Not exactly, I'm pissed off because we are hypocrites.

Yes exactly.

Here is my solution. Cut the who land that both groups occupy in half, from east to west. Palestine takes half and Isreal takes half. I would support that. But how many of you would suport this plan?

Great idea! Except that the Palestinians living in the Jewish half would run off into refugee camps and then demand the land back, and spawn terrorists, and be supported by the rest of the Muslim world.

Which, uh, is what happened the last time someone had that idea. You ARE aware, right, that the UN did this very thing? Except the Arabs invaded, the Jews beat their asses, Egypt annexed part of the Palestinian land, and Jordan annexed another big chunk, and then there was another round of Arab attacks which lost more ground.

Yes I am aware of it. And it turned out really damn well. So why was it split up in the first place? OH YES I recall now.

I am saying cut it in half, north south. Done and done. But neither side would even dare to make even that kind of compromise.

[Argus]

Are we all just looking thru a western lens, Hamas has made it clear on occasions that they want the destruction of the state of israel. How can the people draw the line between peace and the destruction of Israel. Even if the people see them as hero's how could they not see that the Palestine does not have anything be it funding or equipment to see the destruction of israel therefore it is a impossable goal, and they would be in for much of the same things they have today "nothing". And yet they voted for them...

Obviously, the Palestinians don't see Hamas as the "destroy Israel" guys.

There are no greater heroes and role models in PA society than terrorists. Summer camps for children have been named for Wafa Idris and Ayyat Al Achras -- women suicide terrorists. Sporting events are routinely named after terrorists, including a soccer match for 14-year-olds named after the terrorist who killed 31 Israelis four years ago at a Passover Seder in Netanya. The PA Ministry of Culture recently produced a poetry collection named after Hanadi Jaradat, the woman terrorist who killed 21 in a Haifa restaurant.

And just last month, the PA announced it was granting honourary citizenship to Lebanese terrorist Samir Quntar, who is serving a life sentence in an Israeli jail. Smadar Haran, wife and mother of Quntar's murder victims, wrote in The Washington Post: "It was a murder of unimaginable cruelty. ... The terrorists took (husband) Danny and (daughter) Einat down to the beach. One of them shot Danny in front of Einat. ... Then he smashed my little girl's skull in against a rock with his rifle butt. That terrorist was Samir Quntar."

You can find a lot more about how the Palestinian people have been conditioned to think Israelis are so utterly evil they would most certainly see nothing wrong with voting for the "destroy Israel guys" by skimming through here Palestinian Media Watch

[Army Guy]

BD:

Forced? By who? And the defensive pact you keep going on about? The palestinian National Authority is not a part of it. But that's not really relevant Israel won't mount a full scale operation to clear out the Paelstinians: they'll just keep forcing them into smaller and smaller parcels of land

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World opinion, by it's own citizens. The PLO are part of that defensive pact as they are a full member since 1976.

No they don't. First jordan and Egypt have treaties with israel. Both are also supplied by he U.S. and wouldn't lift a finger against their fellow U.S. client Israel lest they lose their patron's good will.

Yes, the whole region has signed peace treaties with Isreal since 1948, and how many times have they been broken. Yes the US does supply them with many wpn sys, but Egypt is also producing alot of them in Egypt as well.

Which, signed in 1950, predates the P.A. (Note how no one rushed to honour the treaty when iraq wa sinvaded). If you have a link or something...?

Actually some of the Arab countries took part in the 1 st gulf war again'st Iraq, See the link i provided above it mentions both.

Wwell first he's one guy and not representative of the views of all Palestinians or Arabs. Second, we know the Palestinians don't have the capacity to wipe Israel off the map, so why is it even a concern? Ever heard of an empty threat?

You mean something like the quotes our CDS has made to the public, only this guy is in charge of foreign affairs. Empty threats are ones that no action is taken, sucide bombers are not empty threats.

[Black Dog]

You mean something like the quotes our CDS has made to the public, only this guy is in charge of foreign affairs. Empty threats are ones that no action is taken, sucide bombers are not empty threats.

Suicide bomber sare not going to wipe out the state of Israel. That's the difference. Only one party to this conflict has the capacity to completely wipe out the other. And it ain't Hamas or the P.N.A.

[GostHacked]

Thats what the serbs thought in Kosvo, ethinic cleansing is a serious crime...Even the US would be forced to pull it's support if the Israelis moved in and ejected the Palestinian people. As for the Arab armies they have a defensive pact with Palestine...both reasons would be enough for them to think twice about using militatry force to evict the Palestinian people.

The US has not pulled funding for Israel up to this point. So what makes you think they ever will? The US is a hypocrite in this as well. Israel has been displasing Palestinians since Isreal was planted in the Middle East. You see to forget how important that little fact is and how it ties in with everything you are seeing between Israel and the Arabs.

I am really tired of the rhetoric 'poor Israel'.

[Biblio Bibuli]

You mean something like the quotes our CDS has made to the public, only this guy is in charge of foreign affairs. Empty threats are ones that no action is taken, sucide bombers are not empty threats.

Suicide bombers are not going to wipe out the state of Israel. That's the difference. Only one party to this conflict has the capacity to completely wipe out the other. And it ain't Hamas or the P.N.A.

The Bible's "turn the other cheek" recommendation was never meant for the superpowers. So, we should declare open season on those who are declaring open season on us. And offer rewards and bonuses, as they do.

That would stop Hamas et al in no time.

[Army Guy]

GostHacked:

The US has not pulled funding for Israel up to this point. So what makes you think they ever will? The US is a hypocrite in this as well. Israel has been displasing Palestinians since Isreal was planted in the Middle East. You see to forget how important that little fact is and how it ties in with everything you are seeing between Israel and the Arabs.

I am really tired of the rhetoric 'poor Israel'.

The US has and still is providing funding to most midle east countries for sometime now. As for them pulling that funding i don't think Israel is going to chance it do you ?

One would think, they should have thought about all that before the threw in with the other Arab countries in thier attempt to crush the state of Israel...it's funny how it's OK for the Arabs to evict Jews from lands they had in Jordan, Syria,Egypt etc once it was decided they were going to create a state for the jews. But when it comes down to the creation of the state of Israel it's different. Just one question how many Jews are left in these countries ?

[GostHacked]

GostHacked:

The US has not pulled funding for Israel up to this point. So what makes you think they ever will? The US is a hypocrite in this as well. Israel has been displasing Palestinians since Isreal was planted in the Middle East. You see to forget how important that little fact is and how it ties in with everything you are seeing between Israel and the Arabs.

I am really tired of the rhetoric 'poor Israel'.

The US has and still is providing funding to most midle east countries for sometime now. As for them pulling that funding i don't think Israel is going to chance it do you ?

One would think, they should have thought about all that before the threw in with the other Arab countries in thier attempt to crush the state of Israel...it's funny how it's OK for the Arabs to evict Jews from lands they had in Jordan, Syria,Egypt etc once it was decided they were going to create a state for the jews. But when it comes down to the creation of the state of Israel it's different. Just one question how many Jews are left in these countries ?

One would think, they should have thought about the outcome of creating a Jewish state in the middle east when it was all Arab countries, would lead to people hating and wanting to crush Israel.

Why do the Jews need their own state? Why not create a state for Christians, or only Muslims, or Buddhists.

I would like to see the dollar figures that the US gives to the middle east countries. Comprehensible breakdown.

[Black Dog]

GH:

I would like to see the dollar figures that the US gives to the middle east countries. Comprehensible breakdown.

Here are the top 10 recipients of U.S. foreign aid for 2005:

1. Israel 2.58 Billion

2. Egypt 1.84 Billion

3. Afganistan 0.98 Billion

4. Pakistan 0.70 Billion

5. Colombia 0.57 Billion

6. Sudan 0.50 Billion

7. Jordan 0.48 Billion

8. Uganda 0.25 Billion

9. Kenya 0.24 Billion

10. Ethiopia 0.19 Billion

Link

AG:

One would think, they should have thought about all that before the threw in with the other Arab countries in thier attempt to crush the state of Israel...it's funny how it's OK for the Arabs to evict Jews from lands they had in Jordan, Syria,Egypt etc once it was decided they were going to create a state for the jews. But when it comes down to the creation of the state of Israel it's different. Just one question how many Jews are left in these countries ?

Who said it was O.K for Jews in Arab countries to get evicted?

[Argus]

One would think, they should have thought about the outcome of creating a Jewish state in the middle east when it was all Arab countries, would lead to people hating and wanting to crush Israel.

One would have thought those silly girls would have realized that if they wore short skirts and made themselves look pretty men would be tempted to rape them.

Why do the Jews need their own state? Why not create a state for Christians, or only Muslims, or Buddhists.

They need their own state because there are so many people who hate them - just look at France. And there are a number of pure muslim states where anyone else is in big trouble if caught practicing a different religion.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Argus,

They need their own state because there are so many people who hate them - just look at France.

They got a country because so many hate French people?

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/index.p...indpost&p=42593

And there are a number of pure muslim states where anyone else is in big trouble if caught practicing a different religion.

Name one.

[scribblet]

GostHacked:

The US has not pulled funding for Israel up to this point. So what makes you think they ever will? The US is a hypocrite in this as well. Israel has been displasing Palestinians since Isreal was planted in the Middle East. You see to forget how important that little fact is and how it ties in with everything you are seeing between Israel and the Arabs.

I am really tired of the rhetoric 'poor Israel'.

The US has and still is providing funding to most midle east countries for sometime now. As for them pulling that funding i don't think Israel is going to chance it do you ?

One would think, they should have thought about all that before the threw in with the other Arab countries in thier attempt to crush the state of Israel...it's funny how it's OK for the Arabs to evict Jews from lands they had in Jordan, Syria,Egypt etc once it was decided they were going to create a state for the jews. But when it comes down to the creation of the state of Israel it's different. Just one question how many Jews are left in these countries ?

One would think, they should have thought about the outcome of creating a Jewish state in the middle east when it was all Arab countries, would lead to people hating and wanting to crush Israel.

Why do the Jews need their own state? Why not create a state for Christians, or only Muslims, or Buddhists.

I would like to see the dollar figures that the US gives to the middle east countries. Comprehensible breakdown.

I think you must know why a new State was created for them. Anti Semitism, oppression and prejudice, caused thousands (millions ?) to be displaced, no country including Canada, would take them in, they had no place to go. Given that the land chosen was originally Hebrew land, 'they' partitioned it. Politically not sound, but could the powers that be at that time really envision the hate and violence from the Arab world toward's Israel. Probably some, but not to the extent it has become. Can anyone of us here, truly conceive of hating people so much that we would turn our kids into human bombs to wantonly kill innocent people, our own people? Pretty hard for anyone to imagine.

All the 'Palestinians' have to do is renounce violence and accept peace, in return Israel will cease retaliating, the "Palestinians' will receive aid and life would become much better. Eventually they would have their own State.

[Black Dog]

I think you must know why a new State was created for them. Anti Semitism, oppression and prejudice, caused thousands (millions ?) to be displaced, no country including Canada, would take them in, they had no place to go. Given that the land chosen was originally Hebrew land, 'they' partitioned it.

So the people who already lived there gOt punished for the west's antisemetism.

Politically not sound, but could the powers that be at that time really envision the hate and violence from the Arab world toward's Israel. Probably some, but not to the extent it has become. Can anyone of us here, truly conceive of hating people so much that we would turn our kids into human bombs to wantonly kill innocent people, our own people? Pretty hard for anyone to imagine

Yeah, I expect they probably thought the Arabs would greet the founding of a new state on their land with showers of rose petals.

All the 'Palestinians' have to do is renounce violence and accept peace, in return Israel will cease retaliating, the "Palestinians' will receive aid and life would become much better. Eventually they would have their own State.

Doubtful. A viable Palestinian state is not in Israel's interests. Heck: I'm not even sure it's in the Palestinians' interests.

[Army Guy]

Gosthack:

One would think, they should have thought about the outcome of creating a Jewish state in the middle east when it was all Arab countries, would lead to people hating and wanting to crush Israel.

AT the time there was no ARAB countries, just one big mass of people. under british control. And there was support for creating a state for israel within the arab community as mentioned in the below link. So at the time the creation of Palestine or what is now known as Israel made sense.

My Webpage

That being said at the same time Britian was writing the Balfour document it was also creating the States of Syria,lebanon,Iraq plus still owned vast qtys of land in Saudi Arabia, and northern africa, all of which was added to existing borders or seen the creation of other states now in that region. So why not a creation of a state of Israel?

Britian also had control over Uganda now call Kenya, that they were considering to place the jews. Also Argentinia also agreed to set up an independant homeland for the Jews. On top of that a very wealthy Individual had purchased land in the US, Canada, And serveral other countries all for the purpose of migrating displaced Jews , but we know were that lead to.

How ever none of these places had the jewish historical ties as the proposed state did, and the vast majority of jews and zionist perfered the lands now know as Israel. On top of all that The Holocaust brought the need for a Jewish homeland into sharp focus for both Jews and for the rest of the world. The Jews who tried to flee Nazi Germany were often turned back due to immigration limitations at the borders of every country, including the United States, Britain and Palestine. Many of those who were sent back to Germany ended up in death camps where they were systematically murdered.

Why do the Jews need their own state? Why not create a state for Christians, or only Muslims, or Buddhists.

Like i said before states were created for the muslims only, Jews in these areas were deported into the mandated lands for jews.

You seem to hold a postion based on what you've heard in the media. you should do your own research and form your own opinion.

BD:

Who said it was O.K for Jews in Arab countries to get evicted?

It was the Arabs who demanded it as part of thier agreements. when thier states were created.

Fleabag:

And there are a number of pure muslim states where anyone else is in big trouble if caught practicing a different religion.

Name one.

Afganistan for one, remember the man with the Bible.

[Black Dog]

It was the Arabs who demanded it as part of thier agreements. when thier states were created.

Proof, please.

[GostHacked]

All the 'Palestinians' have to do is renounce violence and accept peace, in return Israel will cease retaliating, the "Palestinians' will receive aid and life would become much better. Eventually they would have their own State.

They had their own state/country. Now they are restricted to little strips of land. Eventually they will have nothing (if this trend continues)

[Army Guy]

BD:

It was the Arabs who demanded it as part of thier agreements. when thier states were created.

Jews were proscuted well before any agreements were made,The british under preasure from the arabs restricted jew imigration into Israel, plus restricted jews from purchasing land in Israel. And after thier loss in the 48 most arab countries started to not expell jews but make thier lives difficult forcing them to leave...

My Webpage

My Webpage

[Black Dog]

Jews were proscuted well before any agreements were made,The british under preasure from the arabs restricted jew imigration into Israel, plus restricted jews from purchasing land in Israel. And after thier loss in the 48 most arab countries started to not expell jews but make thier lives difficult forcing them to leave...

But persecution of Jews was not something "Arabs...demanded...when their states were created." In any case, it still doesn't justify the expulsion of Arabs from their land in Palestine.

[Army Guy]

Gosthack:

They had their own state/country. Now they are restricted to little strips of land. Eventually they will have nothing (if this trend continues)

Show me on map where the palestinians had a state /country prior to Israel occuping thier lands. or for that matter show me anything that proves there is a palestinian country before 67 when Israel took those lands in combat... And prior to the Israelis capturing said lands whose flag was flying over that territory. Who did israel take the territory from.?

[GostHacked]

Gosthack:

They had their own state/country. Now they are restricted to little strips of land. Eventually they will have nothing (if this trend continues)

Show me on map where the palestinians had a state /country prior to Israel occuping thier lands. or for that matter show me anything that proves there is a palestinian country before 67 when Israel took those lands in combat... And prior to the Israelis capturing said lands whose flag was flying over that territory. Who did israel take the territory from.?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

On 29 November 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine (United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181), a plan to resolve the Arab-Jewish conflict by partitioning the territory into separate Jewish and Arab states, with the Greater Jerusalem area (encompassing Bethlehem) coming under international control. Jewish leaders (including the Jewish Agency), accepted the plan, while Palestinian Arab leaders rejected it. Neighboring Arab states also rejected the partition plan. As armed skirmishes between Arab and Jewish paramilitary forces in Palestine continued, the British mandate ended on May 15, 1948, the establishment of the State of Israel having been proclaimed the day before (see Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel). The neighboring Arab states immediately attacked Israel following its declaration of independence, and the 1948 Arab-Israeli War ensued. Consequently, the partition plan was never implemented.

[Army Guy]

Gosthack:

Your link does more to state my case than yours. I asked you to show me the current Palestine on a map prior to 1967. the maps you have shown me are of accient Israel. It also go's on to say that the rest of the implamation plan was not completed therefore what rights or claims do the Arab palestinians have on that contested lands.

From your link Israel and the Arab states eliminated Palestine as a distinct territory....

Following the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, the 1949 Armistice Agreements between Israel and neighboring Arab states eliminated Palestine as a distinct territory. It was divided between Israel, Egypt, Syria and Jordan.

In addition to the UN-partitioned area, Israel captured 26% of the Mandate territory west of the Jordan river. Jordan captured and annexed about 21% of the Mandate territory. Jerusalem was divided, with Jordan taking the eastern parts, including the old city, and Israel taking the western parts. The Gaza Strip was captured by Egypt.

[Army Guy]

BD:

But persecution of Jews was not something "Arabs...demanded...when their states were created." In any case, it still doesn't justify the expulsion of Arabs from their land in Palestine.

No you are right it was something the british demanded after being presured by the Arabs..And after the war in 48 that they did enact laws and rules that would make life in thier countries unbarable, forcing them to leave.

I know to wrongs do not make a right, but why do we hold Israel accountable and not the other muslim countries. Israel has had serveral chances to expell or totally control the palestinian population and did not act upon them. However when it is the Israelis we scream and kick and shout those poor palestinain's...Below is a link into how many Jews are left in Arab countries can you say the same for Israel..

In 1945 there were between 758,000 and 866,000 Jews (see table below) living in communities throughout the Arab world. Today, there are fewer than 8,000. In some Arab states, such as Libya (which was once around 3 % Jewish), the Jewish community no longer exists; in other Arab countries, only a few hundred Jews remain.

My Webpage

[Argus]

And there are a number of pure muslim states where anyone else is in big trouble if caught practicing a different religion.

Name one.

Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Argus,

Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan

Fair enough, I stand corrected. According to the CIA world factbook, Sudan is only 70% Muslim, though. Saudi Arabia does allow a lot of 'out of towners' to work (and pray) there, but they are possibly one of the worst 'extremist' countries.

Mind you, the US backs them and they remain one of their most favoured countries because....well, I expect the friendship to last almost as long as the oil reserves.