Democracy that is weak will not stand the test of Time

[myata]

Liberal elites contributed to the unfolding crisis of the free world by exercising, predictably and persistently their key trait: talking. When there's a problem, they talk. Talking is acting, acting is the result, so talking is the result, it follows.

2008: Georgia

2014: Ukraine

2021: Afghanistan

This is how long: 14 years (fourteen) it took to nudge Putin to his adventure by demonstrating him complete impunity. Putin tried to prod and shake the principles and resolve of the free world; he had the time. And just maybe, he knew something.

Time will always throw us these tests. Democracy that is weak will not stand them, zero chance against thugs like Hitler and Putin. And that is the whole point of the evolution: the weak can't stand; it has to give way to the new and stronger form, or generation. There was no ticket, forever. It was only a silly illusion, a pot dream.

But this time around, there's no principled alternative. The conservatism of Reagan and Thatcher is gone, a thin smoke. That happened through erosion and degradation of integrity and principle, by handing them, piece by piece, to an angry authoritarian cult mob. A mob and the Guru they need each other and that's all they need. Laws, principles, traditions: good luck recovering them now, from an angry mob that can listen only to itself, orchestrated by the Guru. Like it ever worked. Like angry mobs were ever directed and led to eternal goodness.

And this is our status quo as of today: weakness of will versus an accomplished degradation of all principles, and the freedoms would follow why and how, not? If the West won't find a stronger form of itself, its freedoms and principles that can stand and withstand the rise of the new Axis of tyranny, it will have few options but to be absorbed by it, with time but with certainty too. How and why, not?

Any hints or glimpses so far, what and where could it be? Because the clock is ticking.

 

[Michael Hardner]

46 minutes ago, myata said:

Any hints or glimpses so far, what and where could it be? Because the clock is ticking.

 

What freedoms?

The freedom to shout out angrily on a street corner?  The freedom to choose between parties with only cosmetic differences?  The freedom to discuss such differences as nauseum as though they matter?

The money, and power will consolidate with the corporations and their owners and shareholders.  The next luckiest 10% will administer and provide technical knowledge to keep the machine going.

Eventually the media landscape will only cover politics as they now cover the royal family... gossip and spats.  People will have no more control over their surroundings than the medieval peasants did.

But the underlying problems with the system will erode the 10% until enough of them get upset enough to hack a revolution.

 

20 years.

 

A guess, but there it is...

[myata]

A scary future and it doesn't even consider ever hungry thugs - with nukes, who have learned to rule forever. Now, we have about a billion in the world formerly known as "free", and that would be the existential aka survival exam for it, collectively. I think that much is clear, and in the foreseeable perspective. No need to add anything.

[myata]

In the 1940s AG Farben and IBM through donations and political influence made Allied governments seek the "peace" and "mutually beneficial cooperation" with the Axis. Alternative history of course. Free to explore.

[Nationalist]

Myata what are you blubbering about now?

[robosmith]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The freedom to choose between parties with only cosmetic differences?

There has seldom been as stark a contrast of differences as between Trump and Biden.

Edited July 16, 2024 by robosmith

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Myata what are you blubbering about now?

You're blubbering about your BANKRUPTCY.

[Nationalist]

7 minutes ago, robosmith said:

You're blubbering about your BANKRUPTCY.

yes dear...

[myata]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Myata what

Question: why couldn't dead brains get it that they played their (three) harmonics about infinite number of times already?

Answer: that would be the harmonic number four that requires at least one live cell in the organ that was intended for thinking.

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, myata said:

Question: why couldn't dead brains get it that they played their (three) harmonics about infinite number of times already?

Answer: that would be the harmonic number four that requires at least one live cell in the organ that was intended for thinking.

Good Lord...ok myata. Take a Midol and go to bed dear.

[Michael Hardner]

39 minutes ago, robosmith said:

There has seldom been as stark a contrast of differences as between Trump and Biden.

Not sure that I agree but ok.

[myata]

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

seldom been as stark a contrast of differences as between Trump and Biden

Not really: it's the appearance that looked starkly different. The essence: the dead end; the sense of irreversible locking into the partisan unproductive hostility that stopped producing positive ideas and direction for the society long time ago was very much the same. It always happens the same way: political elites just don't see anything wrong but the populace feels the approaching dead end and is trying to feel out, blind, for ways out. Populists can promise a solution, being ostensibly outsiders of system but it's an impossible promise in the best case, or an outright lie. These crises just cannot be resolved by a throat, strong hand, even a miracle. The society while and if it's still sane has to find the way forward, to a renewed form and structure of the democracy that is more viable and stronger. There will be no miracles simply because they do not exist. There was no miraculous solutions for the dinosaurs: some had to learn to fly, other move to completely different habitats. There was never the ticket for the eternity; it was only an illusion, a pipe dream.

[robosmith]

7 minutes ago, myata said:

Not really: it's the appearance that looked starkly different. The essence: the dead end; the sense of irreversible locking into the partisan unproductive hostility that stopped producing positive ideas and direction for the society long time ago was very much the same. It always happens the same way: political elites just don't see anything wrong but the populace feels the approaching dead end and is trying to feel out, blind, for ways out. Populists can promise a solution, being ostensibly outsiders of system but it's an impossible promise in the best case, or an outright lie. These crises just cannot be resolved by a throat, strong hand, even a miracle. The society while and if it's still sane has to find the way forward, to a renewed form and structure of the democracy that is more viable and stronger. There will be no miracles simply because they do not exist. There was no miraculous solutions for the dinosaurs: some had to learn to fly, other move to completely different habitats. There was never the ticket for the eternity; it was only an illusion, a pipe dream.

The "partisan unproductive hostility that stopped producing positive ideas and direction" has been drastically reduced under Biden.

Maybe you're not keeping up with the bipartisan bills that were passed in the last term.

The problem is that RepubliCON policies are wildly UNPOPULAR but they manage to control Congress with highly effective Gerrymandering and lax Filibustering policies.

[WestCanMan]

Correction:

People are weak and stupid, so democracy will not stand the test of time.

Democracy is being undermined right under your nose and you're revelling in it. 

Quote

5 hours ago, myata said:

Liberal elites contributed to the unfolding crisis of the free world by exercising, predictably and persistently their key trait: talking.

Wrong again: leftists are contributing to the downfall of democracy by waving the pom-poms for the downfall of democracy.

FYI democracy wasn't threatened when someone said something that you didn't like, princess, democracy came under attack when the MSM, IRS, FBI and DOJ took a side and started lying and/or committing crimes incessantly at the whim of the DNC. 

Id10ts like you think it was no big deal that the Dems openly floated the idea of hijacking the SC by unilaterally adding 4 new justices, I can tell you for certain that would have been the final nail in the coffin.

If the Dems got a 60/40 senate in 2020 then losers like Engoron and Chutkan would already be on the SC, Trump would be in jail for life, and the GOP would stand a better chance of wining an election in North Korea than America.

Quote

When there's a problem, they talk.

When there's a problem it's because Dems were stupid and they lied.

Look at the border: it was under control until Biden came in. Ditto for Afghanistan. The ME and Europe were at peace. Inflation was under control. Food was affordable. 

It's getting to the point where we almost need full-blown socialism to get staple food into children. 

Canada:

Quote

Food Banks Canada's HungerCount report found in March 2023 there were nearly 2 million visits to food banks across Canada, representing a 32 per cent increase compared to March 2022, and a 78.5 per cent increase compared to March 2019, which is the highest year-over-year increase in usage ever reported.

America:

Look what happened to food stamp usage under Trump.... It was dropping like a turd from a tall cow right up until covid hit. 

It makes sense that it might have remained high for a while after covid, but why did it still trend upwards in 2023? 

Can we all just agree that it's not good when parents can't feed their kids here? Somehow I think you'll disagree, just based on who you are and how you think. 

Edited July 16, 2024 by WestCanMan

[myata]

1 minute ago, robosmith said:

 control Congress with highly effective Gerrymandering and lax Filibustering policies.

So you are saying we have a great trinket only it doesn't work. And to make it work we're going to point fingers and chat about who's fault it is (not why it wouldn't work) forever.. and then it somehow, would fix itself, miraculously?

Is that the idea?

[robosmith]

6 minutes ago, myata said:

So you are saying we have a great trinket only it doesn't work. And to make it work we're going to point fingers and chat about who's fault it is (not why it wouldn't work) forever.. and then it somehow, would fix itself, miraculously?

Is that the idea?

The government was formed with many compromises that limit the power of the majority and any policy of one man one vote.

Basically in order get many of the smaller states to join the Union, they were given democratic power disproportionate to their population. That continues TODAY. Low population mostly rural states tend to be conservative, and have greater power than their population justifies.

[Five of swords]

5 hours ago, myata said:

Liberal elites contributed to the unfolding crisis of the free world by exercising, predictably and persistently their key trait: talking. When there's a problem, they talk. Talking is acting, acting is the result, so talking is the result, it follows.

2008: Georgia

2014: Ukraine

2021: Afghanistan

This is how long: 14 years (fourteen) it took to nudge Putin to his adventure by demonstrating him complete impunity. Putin tried to prod and shake the principles and resolve of the free world; he had the time. And just maybe, he knew something.

Time will always throw us these tests. Democracy that is weak will not stand them, zero chance against thugs like Hitler and Putin. And that is the whole point of the evolution: the weak can't stand; it has to give way to the new and stronger form, or generation. There was no ticket, forever. It was only a silly illusion, a pot dream.

But this time around, there's no principled alternative. The conservatism of Reagan and Thatcher is gone, a thin smoke. That happened through erosion and degradation of integrity and principle, by handing them, piece by piece, to an angry authoritarian cult mob. A mob and the Guru they need each other and that's all they need. Laws, principles, traditions: good luck recovering them now, from an angry mob that can listen only to itself, orchestrated by the Guru. Like it ever worked. Like angry mobs were ever directed and led to eternal goodness.

And this is our status quo as of today: weakness of will versus an accomplished degradation of all principles, and the freedoms would follow why and how, not? If the West won't find a stronger form of itself, its freedoms and principles that can stand and withstand the rise of the new Axis of tyranny, it will have few options but to be absorbed by it, with time but with certainty too. How and why, not?

Any hints or glimpses so far, what and where could it be? Because the clock is ticking.

 

Democracy is intrinsically weak. Which is why it inevitably always shifts to plutocracy, as Aristotle pointed out over 2000 years ago.

 

The technological changes we have experienced since then only makes a plutocracy more easy. Not more difficult.

 

We currently live in a plutocracy. Which perhaps you should be somewhat thankful for, because it means we are not so weak that we could be conquered by the bloods criminal gang, which would certainly have happened if the country remained a genuine 'democracy'. Because there is nothing the people could unite under and actually fight for, other than speaking platitudes. 

Edited July 16, 2024 by Five of swords

[myata]

5 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

The technological changes we have experienced since then only makes a plutocracy more easy. Not more difficult.

There can be truth to that. Still it doesn't answer the question, what could stand to the rising tide of totalitarians, with nukes? At least the Ode to joy had an air, appeal of plausibility. But what could replace it by being stronger and more resolved? Or should we just join it, quoting one fictional character?

Edited July 16, 2024 by myata

[myata]

15 minutes ago, robosmith said:

That continues TODAY.

So you have a trinket that was designed to work in the 18th century, now is the 21st it's wobbling and throttling and nothing can be done about it except hoping that it could fix itself, somehow? A fair statement?

[robosmith]

6 minutes ago, myata said:

So you have a trinket that was designed to work in the 18th century, now is the 21st it's wobbling and throttling and nothing can be done about it except hoping that it could fix itself, somehow? A fair statement?

As long as the conservative (1800s) Party clings to power by anti-democratic means, it's probably not going to get "fixed."

Conservatives are used to having disproportionate power, and they're not going to give that up willfully. Progress will be slow, if it even happens.

[myata]

18 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Progress will be slow, if it even happens.

This is as good as it will ever get, "if" never "sure". Then, why would we want to be playing right into its hands, by propping the candidate that is not the strongest? If some of us have legitimate reservations, it wouldn't be already the best candidate we can put forward, objectively? That is, is it only and solely about "them" or we would have something to do with it as well?

[Five of swords]

45 minutes ago, myata said:

There can be truth to that. Still it doesn't answer the question, what could stand to the rising tide of totalitarians, with nukes? At least the Ode to joy had an air, appeal of plausibility. But what could replace it by being stronger and more resolved? Or should we just join it, quoting one fictional character?

Honest answer? Nothing. You aren't going to be allowed to join, either. Just despair. That's my best advice.

[myata]

18 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

Honest answer? Nothing.

Well, the dinosaurs that adopted that strategy didn't survive into the age that followed. That much we know from the fossils.

[Five of swords]

46 minutes ago, myata said:

Well, the dinosaurs that adopted that strategy didn't survive into the age that followed. That much we know from the fossils.

Nor will we

[myata]

20 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

Nor will we

Except proofs from the future don't work. Individuals can have different ones - as proven by dinosaurs.