Western Spring

[Moonlight Graham]

Unless literal political saviours comes along to fix countries and reform our systems, many major problems aren't going to be fixed given the corruption, selfishness, and short-term thinking (for electoral reasons) of our politicians.  I predict some kind of uprising.  Hopefully not violent, just people taking to the streets demanding change.

Politicians today are increasingly sociopaths.  They care about their own power over people, seemingly more and more.  It makes me so sad, to see our countries crumble from corruption and selfishness.  This isn't going to get resolved without hitting rock bottom and people demanding change.  Young people can't afford homes without having parents with a lot of savings.  In Canada we have a healthcare crisis.  A lack of doctors and nurses.  ER waits are insane, and many millions can't get a family doctor.  Many elderly are becoming homeless in the US.  The baby boomers will keep aging and will reach an age where longterm care homes are necessary for many, and there won't be enough space because proper preparations weren't made to a problem easily predictable because politicians spending our money for short-term vote gains is more important to them than acting in our best interests.

At some point the masses are going to rise up and it probably won't be pretty.

 

[Michael Hardner]

I agree but when I post my list of priorities, people either go silent or add identity politics in some form.

 

I say our #1 issue is unity and trust, resulting in no thought leadership or meaningful discussion.

#2 is economy and environment together.

[Moonlight Graham]

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I agree but when I post my list of priorities, people either go silent or add identity politics in some form.

 

I say our #1 issue is unity and trust, resulting in no thought leadership or meaningful discussion.

#2 is economy and environment together.

Problem is even though i care about these issues and have discussed them at length, these issues don't change, so there isn't much to discuss after a while, it gets boring to repeat the same arguments when nothing is done about them.  There's always some fool doing something woke or chud to complain about.  People like discussing news and current events because its fresh and generates new discussion.

I think people know there's an issue with these more important things, the challenge is getting our incompetent and corrupt politicians to act on them in our interests.  I see this as a systemic problem with our political system which doesn't do enough to force politicians to act on our behalf.  I'd explore direct democracy, skip the middle man, give people direct power  What would be left is propaganda trying to convince people of this or that when they vote on a particular issue, but propaganda happens now anyways.

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1. ...  these issues don't change, so there isn't much to discuss after a while 

2. I think people know there's an issue with these more important things, the challenge is getting our incompetent and corrupt politicians to act on them in our interests.  I see this as a systemic problem with our political system which doesn't do enough to force politicians to act on our behalf.  I'd explore direct democracy, skip the middle man, give people direct power  What would be left is propaganda trying to convince people of this or that when they vote on a particular issue, but propaganda happens now anyways.

1. Are you saying that Economic, Environmental and Trust in Governance doesn't change ?
2. How would direct democracy would address things like Trade Deals ?  Do you want a 'no' a la Brexit on every move forward ?  This would have happened if people listened to the NDP in 1988

[herbie]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

How would direct democracy would address things like Trade Deals ?

Oh please.... anything but on that one. We'd be walking to the blacksmith on the corner to have him hammer out an iPhone. Saving up until we're 65 to buy a McLaughlin-Buick or a bag of hothouse oranges to keep out teeth from falling out.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, herbie said:

Oh please.... anything but on that one. We'd be walking to the blacksmith on the corner to have him hammer out an iPhone. Saving up until we're 65 to buy a McLaughlin-Buick or a bag of hothouse oranges to keep out teeth from falling out.

BUT YOU ARE KILLING CANADA'S CITRUS INDUSTRY !

[herbie]

Hey my uncle converted a tall glass display case and grew a lemon tree on his patio in Vancouver.

In house with all the Italian marble and the Japanese fridge full of Italian and Spanish cheeses and salamis and Australian lamb. With  a hacked US DISH outside to one Korean TV and Starchoice to the rebadged Zenith. And a Phillipine mahogany cabinet for Auntie's Royal Daltons their parrot from wherever sat on. Pugeot racing bikes for the kids in the garage etc. etc. etc.
Nah, that household of 7 would've voted for unrestricted Free Trade.

Besides that you know how it works. We'd all want to vote for everything online then they'd gripe it wasn't on Facebook and they'd heve to click "all the way near the top" to open a new browser tab to vote. (browser? what's a browser? Tab? Whassat?)

[Moonlight Graham]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Are you saying that Economic, Environmental and Trust in Governance doesn't change ?
2. How would direct democracy would address things like Trade Deals ?  Do you want a 'no' a la Brexit on every move forward ?  This would have happened if people listened to the NDP in 1988

1.  No, I said it typically changes slowly, slow to a point where it doesn't generate much of a news cycle to spur discussion compared to other issues and stories on a daily basis.

2. The people would vote to approve trade deals.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1.  No, I said it typically changes slowly, slow to a point where it doesn't generate much of a news cycle to spur discussion compared to other issues and stories on a daily basis.

2. The people would vote to approve trade deals.

1. Hmmm... Well ok.  Maybe a constant, pervasive and somehow engaging public discussion on the topic.  The economic illiteracy of the public is a problem.

2. That would work in a functional public sphere.

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Hmmm... Well ok.  Maybe a constant, pervasive and somehow engaging public discussion on the topic.  The economic illiteracy of the public is a problem.

2. That would work in a functional public sphere.

1.  I think the public has a general sense of what and when things are dysfunctional.  But elections give them very limited options to fix them, thus their power to change things is limited.  Their choices are a handful of parties at best, all of the ones that do govern are corrupt and filled with self-serving sociopaths, and the others that don't govern don't because their ideas are bad.

2.  Well, the market of ideas has never, ever been more free.  Everyone can have an opinion online and its free, there's no "gatekeepers" like news companies and MSM, book publishers etc.  Some people are not very smart though, so they can believe anything that confirms their biases, and social media like twitter and youtube is filled to the brim with scummy con artists pushing lies.  I would suspect the overwhelming majority of all twitter posts that aren't from legit news outlets/journalists are lies or manipulated half-truths.

[Five of swords]

On 7/14/2024 at 5:52 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

Unless literal political saviours comes along to fix countries and reform our systems, many major problems aren't going to be fixed given the corruption, selfishness, and short-term thinking (for electoral reasons) of our politicians.  I predict some kind of uprising.  Hopefully not violent, just people taking to the streets demanding change.

Politicians today are increasingly sociopaths.  They care about their own power over people, seemingly more and more.  It makes me so sad, to see our countries crumble from corruption and selfishness.  This isn't going to get resolved without hitting rock bottom and people demanding change.  Young people can't afford homes without having parents with a lot of savings.  In Canada we have a healthcare crisis.  A lack of doctors and nurses.  ER waits are insane, and many millions can't get a family doctor.  Many elderly are becoming homeless in the US.  The baby boomers will keep aging and will reach an age where longterm care homes are necessary for many, and there won't be enough space because proper preparations weren't made to a problem easily predictable because politicians spending our money for short-term vote gains is more important to them than acting in our best interests.

At some point the masses are going to rise up and it probably won't be pretty.

 

The masses are far too cowardly to ever 'rise up'. Even if they had the courage, there is no way that a large number of people just spontaneously self organize. Every revolution needs a leader. But leaders are very easy to just take out...either via assassination or by simply deplatforming them. There really is nothing the people could possibly do and there never will be.

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, Five of swords said:

 There really is nothing the people could possibly do and there never will be.

Never is a long time...

[carepov]

On 7/14/2024 at 4:52 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

Unless literal political saviours comes along to fix countries and reform our systems, many major problems aren't going to be fixed given the corruption, selfishness, and short-term thinking (for electoral reasons) of our politicians.  I predict some kind of uprising.  Hopefully not violent, just people taking to the streets demanding change.

Politicians today are increasingly sociopaths.  They care about their own power over people, seemingly more and more.  It makes me so sad, to see our countries crumble from corruption and selfishness.  This isn't going to get resolved without hitting rock bottom and people demanding change.  Young people can't afford homes without having parents with a lot of savings.  In Canada we have a healthcare crisis.  A lack of doctors and nurses.  ER waits are insane, and many millions can't get a family doctor.  Many elderly are becoming homeless in the US.  The baby boomers will keep aging and will reach an age where longterm care homes are necessary for many, and there won't be enough space because proper preparations weren't made to a problem easily predictable because politicians spending our money for short-term vote gains is more important to them than acting in our best interests.

At some point the masses are going to rise up and it probably won't be pretty.

I think that you are irrationally pessimistic, the reality is that on average, people have better lives than ever.  Of course there are problems that require solutions, as there always was, continued incremental improvement is the way to go.

Recommended resources:

https://stevenpinker.com/publications/enlightenment-now-case-reason-science-humanism-and-progress

https://www.superabundance.com/