Fatigue

Aristides · July 11, 2024

I've been waiting for over five years for Americans to get their shit together, it's become obvious that they aren't going too.

Michael Hardner · July 11, 2024

5 hours ago, Aristides said:

I've been waiting for over five years for Americans to get their shit together, it's become obvious that they aren't going too.

Benjamin Studebaker wrote a pretty deep analysis of it. Here he is explaining his take.

Bad news: American politics is broken, nobody can agree on facts enough to move forward.

Good news: No one can seize democracy or steal elections despite what some think.

My only suspicion is that some of the social and cultural generalizations he makes are intuitive and not supported objectively.

Still, this is a great listen

Michael Hardner · July 11, 2024

And there will likely be posters who come on here to blame one side or the other. But it's a Ying Yang thing.

MTG and AOC are a symbiotic pair.

myata · July 11, 2024

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

No one can seize democracy or steal elections despite what some think.

That statement means nothing; just words until its proven in the reality and by it. We know for a fact, verified countless times in history that the unthinkable always happens the first time. Talking about it, shooing it away does exactly nothing to prevent it. We'll just have to see it. Words add not one tiniest of bits to the reality at this point.

Michael Hardner · July 11, 2024

2 hours ago, myata said:

1. That statement means nothing; just words until its proven in the reality and by it.

We know for a fact, verified countless times in history that the unthinkable always happens the first time. Talking about it, shooing it away does exactly nothing to prevent it. We'll just have to see it. Words add not one tiniest of bits to the reality at this point.

1. Well it's an opinion and never provable, only disprovable if someone pulls it off. That said, the biggest case I heard in favour of the irretractability of Democracy in the US is the refusal by the SC to hear cases. West stated that is was a jurisdictional thing, I think. But I just don't get that.

"The unthinkable" does happen, it's true. Trump would have a massive effort to suppress over 50% of the country that understands the basic footprints of freedom.

myata · July 11, 2024

44 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Trump would have a massive effort to suppress over 50% of the country that understands the basic footprints of freedom.

Over 50% will stand and defend democracy if and when needed? Or cared to lift their bottom once in so many years? These are quite different dimensions. We'll just have to see it.

And the main problem with a society sinking into complacency and authoritarianism is not so much all the bad things that are associated with it, but the absence of a path forward, dead end. This model of democracy has run its course. New adornments will do nothing to fix it. The society has to find the will for a meaningful change fitting the challenges of this time and that would be a very tall order.

Deluge · July 11, 2024

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Benjamin Studebaker wrote a pretty deep analysis of it. Here he is explaining his take.

Bad news: American politics is broken, nobody can agree on facts enough to move forward.

Good news: No one can seize democracy or steal elections despite what some think.

My only suspicion is that some of the social and cultural generalizations he makes are intuitive and not supported objectively.

Still, this is a great listen

Michael Softener prefers opinions with a left-wing slant.

Michael Hardner · July 11, 2024

12 minutes ago, myata said:

1. Over 50% will stand and defend democracy if and when needed? Or cared to lift their bottom once in so many years? These are quite different dimensions. We'll just have to see it.

2. And the main problem with a society sinking into complacency and authoritarianism is not so much all the bad things that are associated with it, but the absence of a path forward, dead end.

3. This model of democracy has run its course. New adornments will do nothing to fix it. The society has to find the will for a meaningful change fitting the challenges of this time and that would be a very tall order.

1. Your point is valid and most definitely arguable. I can't defend a "prediction" other than by looking at the past and looking at obstacles in Trump's way. But 50% won't have to fight. They can simply resist passively and refuse to engage in civic life in many ways. Boycotts, strikes, or simply refusing to do their jobs if in any official capacity.

2. Agreed.

3. Well many are saying this, including the Project 2025 people. Things will likely fall down to a level where new shoots will spring up. What form will they take ? You tell me.