2010 Vancouver Olympics

[geoffrey]

You all are so negative. Calgary was profitable, and the people that ran that olympics so well are consulting on 2010. Why can't we all see the glass half full for once and hope that it will be as profitable as the Calgary games?

Quinton: I sure hope you don't drive a car, or use electricity, stop wasting resources!! What a ridiculous reason to boycott the games, because they use non-renewable resources. You should boycott this forum because it uses electricity not 100% from wind power, and boycott all newspapers because they print on paper which comes from trees, and boycott anything made from plastics because it comes from oil.

Hopefully you see how stupid you sounded with that one now.

The benifets of Olympic games are enormous. The motivation it gives young kids to get off their asses and do something is one huge plus. Do you not know that most kids are out of shape and fat now? They need any motivation they can get, and seeing these athletes perform incrediable feats of athleticism and skill, is definitely a motivation to kids.

It brings the world together for a couple weeks, lets keep it that way.

[Spike22]

Sad really, some people are jealous of the olympics being held in their back door. We already have our reservations lined up and are looking forward to it.

♪ It is gonna be some kinda party ♫

[Wilber]

Sad really, some people are jealous of the olympics being held in their back door. We already have our reservations lined up and are looking forward to it.

♪ It is gonna be some kinda party ♫

Yup. Nothing directly in it for us folks up the valley but we are looking forward to it and hoping we can get to a few events in Richmond's oval.

Richmond Oval Costs and Funding Sources

Costs including parkade 178 M 2006 dollars.

The City has identified a variety of funding sources that can support the project, which include the $60 million capital contribution from VANOC, $50 million from Casino funding, $12.6 million in Development Cost Charges, and a variety of other sources. A primary component of the funding will come from the development and sale or lease of the reminder of the 32-acre Oval site not occupied by the facility. A Request For Proposal on this property, which has been divided into seven parcels, will be issued early in 2006.

True the Richmond taxpayer could be hit with overruns but when the Olympics are over they will own a facility that only cost them a fraction of what it took to build it.

[Riverwind]

The City has identified a variety of funding sources that can support the project, which include the $60 million capital contribution from VANOC, $50 million from Casino funding, $12.6 million in Development Cost Charges, and a variety of other sources. A primary component of the funding will come from the development and sale or lease of the reminder of the 32-acre Oval site not occupied by the facility. A Request For Proposal on this property, which has been divided into seven parcels, will be issued early in 2006.

It is unlikely developers will pay the price the city is asking for the land because they know the city is desperate to sell so they can afford to low ball their offers. The casino revenue is not a sure thing - a recent court decision may hand a chunk of those profits over to the local indian band. You also have to take into account that the casino revenues were supposed to be used to reduce the tax burden - not fund white elephants.

True the Richmond taxpayer could be hit with overruns but when the Olympics are over they will own a facility that only cost them a fraction of what it took to build it.

Richmond could have built two brand new community centers with ice rinks, pools and other facilities for $140 million. In other words, even with the contribution from VANOC, Richmond taxpayers end up with less than they could have gotten if the money was spent more intelligently.

[fixer1]

I really do not care if the olympics is in Canada or some where else. I do wonder at the one upsmanship each place that has the olympics goes enthusiastically about. I think we should spend what we need to on good sites and buildings, but not try and out do the rest of the world, and then take a lot more money to support our athletes and also any medal winners of the olympics. This would then be money better spent. All the pomp and pagentry is of no consequence to me. Yes it is a big deal to many people, and I would not stop them from having it. I just think it can all be done for a lot less money.

[no1important]

Funny no mention of tolls for new highway, oops sorry I forgot it goes through the Rich Area.

All of BC or all of the Lower mainland should of had a chance to vote on this waste of money.

I wonder how it will do if it does not snow? No snow last year and they cancelled the Skiing World Cup races at Whistler years ago due to bad conditions like lack of snow and lots of fog.

[Wilber]

The City has identified a variety of funding sources that can support the project, which include the $60 million capital contribution from VANOC, $50 million from Casino funding, $12.6 million in Development Cost Charges, and a variety of other sources. A primary component of the funding will come from the development and sale or lease of the reminder of the 32-acre Oval site not occupied by the facility. A Request For Proposal on this property, which has been divided into seven parcels, will be issued early in 2006.

It is unlikely developers will pay the price the city is asking for the land because they know the city is desperate to sell so they can afford to low ball their offers. The casino revenue is not a sure thing - a recent court decision may hand a chunk of those profits over to the local indian band. You also have to take into account that the casino revenues were supposed to be used to reduce the tax burden - not fund white elephants.

True the Richmond taxpayer could be hit with overruns but when the Olympics are over they will own a facility that only cost them a fraction of what it took to build it.

Richmond could have built two brand new community centers with ice rinks, pools and other facilities for $140 million. In other words, even with the contribution from VANOC, Richmond taxpayers end up with less than they could have gotten if the money was spent more intelligently.

Ok Sparhawk, have it your way. I hope you're right.

[geoffrey]

Funny no mention of tolls for new highway, oops sorry I forgot it goes through the Rich Area.

Sounds like someone's jealous and naive. Why should rich people pay tolls?

Which 'rich area'? Sorry I'm not that familiar with Vancouver, I thought almost all of it was rich with those housing prices.

[Shady]

Funny that people who balk at public funds being spent on improving healthcare, the environment, infrastructure etc etc, who rail against high taxes, government interference and beauracracy suddenly become the ardent defenders of massive public spending on spectacles like the Olympics.

I don't accept your premise. I don't balk at public funds being spent on improving healthcare, the environment, infrastructure, etc, etc. I do however balk at some of the ways money gets spent. I absolutely do rail against high taxes and government interference and beauracracy, because that's the kind of obstacles which supress economic growth. Where do you think all the money you libs love to spend comes from?

if the Olympics are such a profitable venture, why isn't the vaunted private sector footing the bill

Again, I don't accept your premise. I never once stated that the Olympics is a profitable venture, although it is entirely possible to turn a profit. Some of the private sector is footing the bill. However, even if the Olympics isn't profitable, and even if the private sector didn't provide a dime, I still think it's a valuable national experience that's worth the cost. An experience that comes along once in a generation if lucky.

You all are so negative

Most of them are liberals, it's what they do best.

[JMH]

Just like the naysayers before Expo 86.

Without Expo we wouldn't have Science World or the waterfront or Canada Place...

We need (and will get) new highways, new venues -- plus we get to show off how great we are in front of the entire world.

BTW, the CITY of Vancouver is hosting; Not Surrey, not Maple Ridge, NOT the province of BC, not the country of Canada, not the little town in the Peace River.

Go Vancouver!

Go Mayor Sullivan!

Exactly! LOOK AT WHAT EXPO DID TO THE CITY OF VACOUVER! The entire site was sold to a foriegn investor for a DOLLAR. If you've got enough cash kicking around to buy a 600 sqaure foot condo for $500,000, then your apathy is understandable.

[JMH]

Funny no mention of tolls for new highway, oops sorry I forgot it goes through the Rich Area.

Sounds like someone's jealous and naive. Why should rich people pay tolls?

Which 'rich area'? Sorry I'm not that familiar with Vancouver, I thought almost all of it was rich with those housing prices.

"West Vancouver", and yes, most of the city has now become exclusive (fall-out from the EXPO days)...................yet another money maker. Thankfully the "west End" is still attainable for middle to upper class working couples. It's one sqaure mile in the downtown core with roughly 65,000 people- the majority of whom are renters ($1000-$2500 per month). This area provides the core with societal balance and diversity..........wich makes Vancouver the beutiful city that it is.

As far as being jealous and naive; well, anyone that would make such an arrogant statement while not "being familiar" with Vancouver is simply ignorant to the issues involved.

As to why the rich should pay tolls? Between offshore accounts and other tax shelters, isn't it fair that they actually pay for SOMETHING in their lives? Poo Poo on me for thinking so...........REAAAALLLY...........anyway , pass the Grey Poupon!

[Vancouver King]

Funny no mention of tolls for new highway, oops sorry I forgot it goes through the Rich Area.

------------------------------

Watched a hundred millionaires carrying placards demonstrate while the mayor hoisted the Olympic flag at city hall yesterday. Only Vancouver has wealthy activists. All were from West Van (sometimes called Martini Slopes) demanding VANOC cough up an extra $100 million to punch a tunnel through their turf - the sight of surface asphalt from their mansion decks cannot be countenanced!

[Riverwind]

All were from West Van (sometimes called Martini Slopes) demanding VANOC cough up an extra $100 million to punch a tunnel through their turf - the sight of surface asphalt from their mansion decks cannot be countenanced!

Does not compare to the multi-millionaire residents of Granville that tried to block the expansion of bus service from the suburbs. Or the millionaire residents of Cambie who actually convinced the govt to spend another 300-500 million to put the new airport line underground but then tried to sue the govt once they found out that the tunnel would be made by digging a trench instead of drilling a tunnel (they felt the dust from digging would be a health hazard).

[Drea]

Just like the naysayers before Expo 86.

Without Expo we wouldn't have Science World or the waterfront or Canada Place...

We need (and will get) new highways, new venues -- plus we get to show off how great we are in front of the entire world.

BTW, the CITY of Vancouver is hosting; Not Surrey, not Maple Ridge, NOT the province of BC, not the country of Canada, not the little town in the Peace River.

Go Vancouver!

Go Mayor Sullivan!

Exactly! LOOK AT WHAT EXPO DID TO THE CITY OF VACOUVER! The entire site was sold to a foriegn investor for a DOLLAR. If you've got enough cash kicking around to buy a 600 sqaure foot condo for $500,000, then your apathy is understandable.

Actually I live in the Fraser Valley. 40 mins from Vancouver.

Nope don't have enough cash to buy a little condo in the city... wouldn't want to. There are obviously people that can afford it, they certainly sell quickly. Those $500,000 condos are a huge tax base for the city -- the foreign investor only made money once (when he sold the property to the developer who built the tiny, expensive condos), the city, however, will continue to collect taxes from these condos for a very long time.

Vancouver was a "nobody" before Expo '86. -- I could understand your frustration if that foreign investor just let the property degrade but they didn't. We now have Canada Place, Science World (where my kid is going on a school outing tomorrow) etc.

Was Expo a detriment to Vancouver, to BC? I think not.

The Olympics will bring money to our city, new venues (which will be used long after the games are over), new transportation systems, etc.

How can this be considered a bad thing?

[Black Dog]

You all are so negative. Calgary was profitable, and the people that ran that olympics so well are consulting on 2010. Why can't we all see the glass half full for once and hope that it will be as profitable as the Calgary games?

Creative accounting should be an Olymoic event. No modern Olympics has turned a profit. The '88 games were only profitable if you exclude all subsidies received from federal, provincial and municipal governments for Olympic venues.

[Wilber]

You all are so negative. Calgary was profitable, and the people that ran that olympics so well are consulting on 2010. Why can't we all see the glass half full for once and hope that it will be as profitable as the Calgary games?

Creative accounting should be an Olymoic event. No modern Olympics has turned a profit. The '88 games were only profitable if you exclude all subsidies received from federal, provincial and municipal governments for Olympic venues.

The Olympics themselves may not have been profitable but look what they have done for Calgary since the Olympics. Look what the Calgary facilities have done for the Canadian Olympic team. Look at the number of other country's team members who train there.

[Black Dog]

The Olympics themselves may not have been profitable but look what they have done for Calgary since the Olympics. Look what the Calgary facilities have done for the Canadian Olympic team. Look at the number of other country's team members who train there.

And this benefits us how?

[Wilber]

The Olympics themselves may not have been profitable but look what they have done for Calgary since the Olympics. Look what the Calgary facilities have done for the Canadian Olympic team. Look at the number of other country's team members who train there.

And this benefits us how?

If you live in Calgary and own property or have a business there I should think you would know.

[Wilber]

Just like the naysayers before Expo 86.

Without Expo we wouldn't have Science World or the waterfront or Canada Place...

We need (and will get) new highways, new venues -- plus we get to show off how great we are in front of the entire world.

BTW, the CITY of Vancouver is hosting; Not Surrey, not Maple Ridge, NOT the province of BC, not the country of Canada, not the little town in the Peace River.

Go Vancouver!

Go Mayor Sullivan!

Exactly! LOOK AT WHAT EXPO DID TO THE CITY OF VACOUVER! The entire site was sold to a foriegn investor for a DOLLAR. If you've got enough cash kicking around to buy a 600 sqaure foot condo for $500,000, then your apathy is understandable.

What's your alternative? Do you think condos in Yaletown would be cheaper if the developer had paid 10 billion for the land?

Actually Li Ka-Shing paid 145 million for the land. Peanuts compared to what it is worth today and a good deal back then but that was 20 years ago and nobody else seemed willing to pay more at the time. I suppose the city could have just sat on the land, let the facilities go to seed and got no revenue from any of it. I guess they figured there would be more long term gain if the land was developed.

[Concerned]

The Vancouver Olympics was the first ever to be voted on by its citizens in a referendum. It passed. The Province and the Federal Government gave it their support. It's happening, so let's quit bitching, get on with it and make sure it is done right.

Part of the Olympic plan is a new rapid transit system from downtown to Richmond and the airport as well as replacing the most dangerous section highway in the province. It's not all just the games.

JMH

The reckess idiots have a habit of taking out the not so reckless with them. The fact is that highway kills far more than its share and it hasn't changed much since the sixties.

Wilbur, we finally agree on something .... here are some of the facts and projections related to the re-development of the Sea to Sky Highway. I travel this road every weekend during the winter with my two (going on three) kids in the car... the drive is already alot easier with the improvements that are in place now, and this will only get better.

".......There are 300 accidents each year on the Sea to Sky highway (many of them head on collisions)

Average Annual Daily Traffic between Horseshoe Bay and Squamish are forecast to increase from 13,700 to

22,000 by 2025 (a 62% increase).

Between Squamish and Whister volumes are forecast to increase from 7,700 to 12,000 by 2025 (a 56%

increase)

Safety improvements are projected to result in 30% fewer accidents per year.

The highway is projected to create 6,000 new jobs as a result of economic activity generated along the Corridor and increase provincial GDP by $300 million over the period of 2010 to 2025....."

To me, the Olympics are worth it just to have this road re-developed. And JML.....Whistler may be well recognized globally (and also the lack of safety of that road is as well)....however tourist visits over the past 5 years have been on the downward trend...much of that caused by the low US buck....so it is important that Whistler gets further world wide attention if it is to stay in growth mode and continue to attract tourism revenues to this province.

[Concerned]

The Vancouver Olympics was the first ever to be voted on by its citizens in a referendum. It passed. The Province and the Federal Government gave it their support. It's happening, so let's quit bitching, get on with it and make sure it is done right.

Part of the Olympic plan is a new rapid transit system from downtown to Richmond and the airport as well as replacing the most dangerous section highway in the province. It's not all just the games.

JMH

The reckess idiots have a habit of taking out the not so reckless with them. The fact is that highway kills far more than its share and it hasn't changed much since the sixties.

I beg to differ. I've seen hundreds of thousands of miles of highways. I've never seen a mile, or ten, that have jumped out to me as a killer highway.

Driver error/apathy is the real problem. People do really stupid things in their cars every day and don't realize it. I can't count the number of times per day cars cut in front of me, stomp on their brakes in front of my truck and then turn right a fraction of a second before I would have hit them. What these people don't see is that that manoever put them within an inch of their losing their life. When a truck hits a car we don't count injuries, we count fatalities. Those who have tangled with a truck and lived to tell about it were the lucky recipient of a miracle. And what's really scary is that there are a lot of drivers that are even more careless around smaller vehicles.

People aren't aware of the limitations of their vehicle - 4x4 drivers are the worst. They have no clue that though they can maintain a higher speed that they can't stop any faster. Still more people aren't aware of the limitations of the vehicles around them - specifically drivers of cars have no clue what larger vehicles can and cannot do and put their lives and the lives of others in danger because of it. People tailgate more today than I have ever seen. And if these factors were not enough, people are increasingly allowing themselves to be distracted by cell phones and other such devices.

I'm not trying to say all of us truck drivers are innocent, because we're not. But we do have one thing on our side. We're not the ones causing most of the accidents. We cause only 30% of accidents compared to nearly 70% for drivers of cars. We drive over 1000 safe miles for every safe mile a car drives. Having said that, I think we all have much room for improvement.

Yes, and the wreckless drivers and even those that don't understand their limitations are out there...and a safer road will decrease the number of accidents. You can't blame the road, I agree, however people don't drive cautiously enough for the Sea to Sky highway and therefore it needs to be fixed. Just because some yahoo can't drive doesn't mean my family should be wiped out by them. If it can be prevented, it should be. And the government can't drive people's cars for them, so a safer road it will be....

I can't tell you how many times I have seen people cross that center line in areas where it could have meant death. Sure, they are not good drivers, but do they deserve to die because of it ? And what about the people in the car coming the other way, do they deserve this ???

[Concerned]

You all are so negative. Calgary was profitable, and the people that ran that olympics so well are consulting on 2010. Why can't we all see the glass half full for once and hope that it will be as profitable as the Calgary games?

Quinton: I sure hope you don't drive a car, or use electricity, stop wasting resources!! What a ridiculous reason to boycott the games, because they use non-renewable resources. You should boycott this forum because it uses electricity not 100% from wind power, and boycott all newspapers because they print on paper which comes from trees, and boycott anything made from plastics because it comes from oil.

Hopefully you see how stupid you sounded with that one now.

The benifets of Olympic games are enormous. The motivation it gives young kids to get off their asses and do something is one huge plus. Do you not know that most kids are out of shape and fat now? They need any motivation they can get, and seeing these athletes perform incrediable feats of athleticism and skill, is definitely a motivation to kids.

It brings the world together for a couple weeks, lets keep it that way.

Oh my god Geoffrey I agree with you too ! What's happening to me. Your best point is that about the kids. The Olympics and its athletes are an inspiration for recreational athletes and having those facilities will only increase the number of participants in sport. This has very long term benefits for Canada as people who participate in sport on a regular basis live healthier lives than those who do not.

[Concerned]

Funny no mention of tolls for new highway, oops sorry I forgot it goes through the Rich Area.

All of BC or all of the Lower mainland should of had a chance to vote on this waste of money.

I wonder how it will do if it does not snow? No snow last year and they cancelled the Skiing World Cup races at Whistler years ago due to bad conditions like lack of snow and lots of fog.

Whistler has excellent snow making capacity and in fact man made snow can be more consistent than the stuff that comes from the heavens, and better for competitive events. The rain, however, would be a problem. Usually not raining here in February, keep our fingers crossed on that one....

[geoffrey]

Oh my god Geoffrey I agree with you too ! What's happening to me. Your best point is that about the kids. The Olympics and its athletes are an inspiration for recreational athletes and having those facilities will only increase the number of participants in sport. This has very long term benefits for Canada as people who participate in sport on a regular basis live healthier lives than those who do not.

It's good to see we agree on at least one thing.

The costs that it saves our health care system for just 100 kids to be inspired by the olympics and live better lives is worth it.

It is likely that the olympics won't cost anything though. Calgary made money, as can Vancouver if done properly.

[Wilber]

The Vancouver Olympics was the first ever to be voted on by its citizens in a referendum. It passed. The Province and the Federal Government gave it their support. It's happening, so let's quit bitching, get on with it and make sure it is done right.

Part of the Olympic plan is a new rapid transit system from downtown to Richmond and the airport as well as replacing the most dangerous section highway in the province. It's not all just the games.

JMH

The reckess idiots have a habit of taking out the not so reckless with them. The fact is that highway kills far more than its share and it hasn't changed much since the sixties.

I beg to differ. I've seen hundreds of thousands of miles of highways. I've never seen a mile, or ten, that have jumped out to me as a killer highway.

Driver error/apathy is the real problem. People do really stupid things in their cars every day and don't realize it. I can't count the number of times per day cars cut in front of me, stomp on their brakes in front of my truck and then turn right a fraction of a second before I would have hit them. What these people don't see is that that manoever put them within an inch of their losing their life. When a truck hits a car we don't count injuries, we count fatalities. Those who have tangled with a truck and lived to tell about it were the lucky recipient of a miracle. And what's really scary is that there are a lot of drivers that are even more careless around smaller vehicles.

People aren't aware of the limitations of their vehicle - 4x4 drivers are the worst. They have no clue that though they can maintain a higher speed that they can't stop any faster. Still more people aren't aware of the limitations of the vehicles around them - specifically drivers of cars have no clue what larger vehicles can and cannot do and put their lives and the lives of others in danger because of it. People tailgate more today than I have ever seen. And if these factors were not enough, people are increasingly allowing themselves to be distracted by cell phones and other such devices.

I'm not trying to say all of us truck drivers are innocent, because we're not. But we do have one thing on our side. We're not the ones causing most of the accidents. We cause only 30% of accidents compared to nearly 70% for drivers of cars. We drive over 1000 safe miles for every safe mile a car drives. Having said that, I think we all have much room for improvement.

I wouldn't argue with that but what does it do with the fact the Sea to Sky highway is old, out dated and not up to handling the traffic that uses it, especially in the winter when the weather is poor and it is prone to washouts and slides. Too many people die on that highway and a lot of them are in that 70%, many of who are victims of the 30%. Of course if we got rid of all the drivers, it wouldn't be a problem but then we wouldn't need a highway because Squamish, Pemberton and Whistler Blackcomb wouldn't exist.