The Wuhan lab leak conspiracy theory now a likely reality

[myata]

8 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

what hypothesis and theorems are

No disagreement this time: these are the hypothesis, there's no final evidence either way and they can still be evaluated on the balance of the arguments that go for and against them.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, myata said:

ack to the topic. In the two of the earlier epidemics of coronaviruses, SARS and MERS, both the intermediary host and the original reservoir have been found: civets, bats for SARS-Cov and camels, bats for MERS. As we are approaching the year five of the pandemic, and despite unprecedented efforts, no such connection was made for Covid. It's just too different from any that were found in the nature and would have taken decades of natural mutations to produce.

Very good point. 

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, myata said:

No disagreement this time: these are the hypothesis, there's no final evidence either way and they can still be evaluated on the balance of the arguments that go for and against them.

It is what I have been saying from the beginning...wait for the facts to come out.

[Goddess]

4 hours ago, myata said:

On the other hand, the evidence of work with a sufficiently close natural virus; genetic manipulations to increase its transmissibility in humans; and creation of artificial viruses in the same facility have all been documented. The coincidence of the time and place with these activities, in the scenario of the natural origin would be even more perplexing.

Something else interesting:  There is a process scientists can use in the lab to rapidly mutate and alter viruses (I forget the name for it just now, but I discussed it in the Trickle thread).  It happens that the very scientist who was working on this virus - was the inventor of the procedure and stated in his request for funding that he would use the technique to rapidly alter and mutate the virus.  Daszak.

Edit:  Also, once the technique is used to rapidly alter the virus, it's very difficult to detect the procedure has taken place, rather than natural mutation.

Edited June 12, 2024 by Goddess

[myata]

On 6/12/2024 at 12:59 PM, Goddess said:

Edit:  Also, once the technique is used to rapidly alter the virus, it's very difficult to detect the procedure has taken place

Interesting isn't it? Because it can be the last piece of the puzzle that was missing. Indeed there's that bat agent RG something with 96-97% similarity to Cov that was discovered by Wuhan in 2013 and kept ever since (Congress report). The Cov genome is about 30K bases so the difference comes to about 1,000 bases which is a lot, in the natural mutation timeframe (a few mutations per variant so in five years of Covid there would be a few dozen at most). But of that thousand, only a handful are in the key furin site and some dozens, in the spike protein overall. This is entirely doable in the lab: and importantly, has been done with SARS and some other agents.

Now, only hypothesizing, if someone thought of making an RG + spike chimera, that was done for the first time with SARS around 2006 if I'm not mistaken and with countless other agents since, it would certainly work - there would be nothing, like zero new about it except everyone would see it instantly for what it is, like a huge laser beam tag impossible to mistake.

But if only one could rapidly and randomly change it, it would put everybody off the trail. Yeah kind of looks alike but no would take decades to appear in the nature, have to rule out. Ironically isn't it - it would also obstruct the nature origin to impossibility: try to find a close match to a bunch of random changes and in a limited time. Did it even look like an honest effort?

And that opens an opportunity for a team of independent scientists to add the last deciding piece to this puzzle: produce a Cov-like artificial agent from RG and show that it was possible. No need to touch the spike, we already know that it's doable and has been done. Doesn't need to be identical, a similar number of random changes would do. The gun, the cartridge and the intent, all there. Short of a signed and stamped confession, could be the best we could hope for, looking for the origin of this thing.

Edited June 13, 2024 by myata