blackbird Posted May 28, 2024 Report Posted May 28, 2024 (edited) This is a sad demonstration of pure antisemitism. The Irish republic has a sad history of claiming to be "neutral". They were neutral while Hitler and the Nazis invaded Europe. The allies defended the west and their citizens joined the armed forces and sacrificed their lives in the defence of freedom. What did Ireland do? Nothing. " Francoist Spain remained officially neutral during World War II but maintained close political and economic ties to Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy throughout the period of the Holocaust." "The regime failed to protect the vast majority of Spanish Sephardic Jews living in German-occupied Europe." Spain and the Holocaust - Wikipedia Now they think they can pontificate and contribute to a better world by siding with one side against Israel. They can't be trusted. Edited May 28, 2024 by blackbird Quote
CITIZEN_2015 Posted May 28, 2024 Report Posted May 28, 2024 6 minutes ago, blackbird said: This is a sad demonstration of pure antisemitism. . Why recognizing a state of Palestine is antisemitism. ? Is recognizing the state of Israel anti-Arabism? 3 1 Quote
blackbird Posted May 28, 2024 Author Report Posted May 28, 2024 14 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: Why recognizing a state of Palestine is antisemitism. ? As has already been stated many times, Palestinian people are primarily Muslim and hate Israel and want it eliminated or destroyed. Israel is a tiny country and carving it up to create a so-called Palestinian state would threaten the very existence of Israel. All the surrounding countries are largely Muslim and opposed to the existence of Israel. Countries like Iran are terrorist controlled who have many terrorist proxies who want to destroy Israel and have openly sworn to do so. Quote
CITIZEN_2015 Posted May 28, 2024 Report Posted May 28, 2024 (edited) 4 hours ago, blackbird said: As has already been stated many times, Palestinian people are primarily Muslim and hate Israel and want it eliminated or destroyed. Israel is a tiny country and carving it up to create a so-called Palestinian state would threaten the very existence of Israel. All the surrounding countries are largely Muslim and opposed to the existence of Israel. Countries like Iran are terrorist controlled who have many terrorist proxies who want to destroy Israel and have openly sworn to do so. First off Iran is not an Arab country. It has been occupied by Arab loving terrorists but the nation of Iran is Persian not Arab and do not refer to the regime as Iran. It is Islamic Republic who is full of hate for everyone even its own citizens is not Iran which has a rich 2500 years of Zoroastrian culture or the peace loving nation of Iran. If you wish to eliminate the threat posed by Islamic republic, then help the nation of Iran and opposition groups to eliminate this terrorist regime from the face of the planet. Second Israel may be tiny area-wise but it is a powerful country. Don't try to falsely represent Israel as weak or victim. Yes I agree it is surrounded by hostile neighbors but it has the support of powerful armies and both financial and military support from most powerful countries in the world not to mention the powerful Zionist lobbyists. Peace cannot be achieved for Israel and it will be exposed to the risk of destruction for as long as it existence is based on oppression and revenge. Two state solution in which both Israelis and Palestinians can live in peace alongside is the only solution otherwise its enemies are getting stronger every day. Hamas and Hezbolah did not exist in 1967 when Israel crushed the three Arab armies in 6 days but now 50 years later they have a bigger problem in which after eight months they are stuck in a no-win war. Islamic republic will soon become nuclear too and denying Palestinian state will not change that. Believe me I would be the last to support Arabs or Palestinians or Muslims but when I see a one-sided unfair post I cannot stay silent to it. Edited May 28, 2024 by CITIZEN_2015 2 Quote
Army Guy Posted May 29, 2024 Report Posted May 29, 2024 6 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: Second Israel may be tiny area-wise but it is a powerful country. Don't try to falsely represent Israel as weak or victim. Yes I agree it is surrounded by hostile neighbors but it has the support of powerful armies and both financial and military support from most powerful countries in the world not to mention the powerful Zionist lobbyists. Peace cannot be achieved for Israel and it will be exposed to the risk of destruction for as long as it existence is based on oppression and revenge. Two state solution in which both Israelis and Palestinians can live in peace alongside is the only solution otherwise its enemies are getting stronger every day. Hamas and Hezbolah did not exist in 1967 when Israel crushed the three Arab armies in 6 days but now 50 years later they have a bigger problem in which after eight months they are stuck in a no-win war. Islamic republic will soon become nuclear too and denying Palestinian state will not change that. Believe me I would be the last to support Arabs or Palestinians or Muslims but when I see a one-sided unfair post I cannot stay silent to it. Israel has been defending itself since it's inception,and if not for US protectionism it would have fallen and the jews would have no homeland to speak off, and around the world their would be lots of rejoicing...nothing more than a brief mention in the history books...all of It's neighbors have much stronger militaries... they just don't know how to use them effectively...being Russian trained and all. Israel has always had it's back against the wall...and has come close to being over run by Arab forces a few times... oppression and revenge...How are they oppressing those that live in Gaza...Hamas has been in charge of everything since 2005.... and revenge...not even sure where this is coming from, lets all go back to 9/11 US was attacked , they waged that war for 16 years...killed hundreds of thousands of terrorist not once did the UN lift a finger, nor the ICJ...i guess it is all right for one group to defend themselves, but the minute the conversation turns to Israel it gets ugly for everyone...Not sure why we have two standards... Not that the ICJ or the UN has any power to due anything but make up more policies...but has nothing to enforce them... No one can answer the question How is a 2 state solution going to magically fix things...what is going to change...70 plus years of not living peacefully has got to send up red flags, all of a sudden you think because the UN recognizes a state for Palestinians everyone is going to hug and party like it is 1999....Thats wishful thinking...and you bought into a pipe dream... Hamas and Hezbollah exist today because their governments have failed the extremist...that and Iran's need to screw things up in the area...it is a power struggle with other Muslim nations, that drives Iran... Israel is stuck in a no win war because the globe has got to stick their noses in where it does not belong...no other conflict is being dictated to like this one... Israel is not going to let Iran have a nuclear weapon EVER...they and many past government have already stated that as fact...Not sure the US is going to let that happen either.... Israel is not denying any ones state, that is coming from the UN, Israel does not have the power to deny anything...Now after this gaza thing comes to a close, i don't think Israelis army is leaving Gaza anytime soon...why would it ? 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
CITIZEN_2015 Posted May 29, 2024 Report Posted May 29, 2024 (edited) Israeli settlers fully armed shoot and kill unarmed Palestinian civilians in occupied territories. Israeli army raids have killed tens of thousands of civilians since 1967 occupation. Palestinian refugees (made refugees by terror campaigns by extremists in Israel one of which became Israeli prime minister) are living in refugee camps for the past 70 years. There were forced out of their homes by terror campaigns. If all these don't qualify for oppression I am not sure what will. By the way Islamic Republic is only days from nuclear weapons. They are rapidly enriching. https://thehill.com/policy/international/4688424-iran-enriched-uranium-iaea-report-may/ https://www.wsj.com/articles/iran-uranium-stockpile-nuclear-weapons-international-atomic-energy-agency-biden-administration-4ec62643 Edited May 29, 2024 by CITIZEN_2015 1 Quote
myata Posted May 29, 2024 Report Posted May 29, 2024 One cannot clap with a palm of one hand. A solution cannot be reached if the arguments of only one side are seen as valid. Eternal war or a solution where interests of both sides are heard and taken into account are the only options so by closing one we chose the other. How is it not obvious, after so many years and tragedies? Yes there needs to be a reliable, trusted partner for negotiations on the Palestine's side. No Israel cannot grab ever more of the land that doesn't belong to it, under any guises or excuses. If there's any chance for the former option above to be avoided, that is. Why is it not obvious? Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Army Guy Posted May 29, 2024 Report Posted May 29, 2024 1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: Israeli settlers fully armed shoot and kill unarmed Palestinian civilians in occupied territories. Israeli army raids have killed tens of thousands of civilians since 1967 occupation. Palestinian refugees (made refugees by terror campaigns by extremists in Israel one of which became Israeli prime minister) are living in refugee camps for the past 70 years. There were forced out of their homes by terror campaigns. If all these don't qualify for oppression I am not sure what will. By the way Islamic Republic is only days from nuclear weapons. They are rapidly enriching. https://thehill.com/policy/international/4688424-iran-enriched-uranium-iaea-report-may/ https://www.wsj.com/articles/iran-uranium-stockpile-nuclear-weapons-international-atomic-energy-agency-biden-administration-4ec62643 That is happening in the west bank...Hamas does not operate in the west bank, it is under the control of Fatah...two different groups of people...we are discussing the Gaza city and hamas... Yes the history of that area is written in blood by both sides...but you present only one half of the story and expect us to be converted to your thinking....thats not how this is going to work...Palestinians were willing participants in the 48 conflict, they had no problem doing the same as you describe to jewish families, they also participated in the 67 occupation which seen lands reoccupied in gaza and west bank, taken from Egypt and Jordan in battle...I get it you have no tears to shed for those jewish families that were slaughtered by Arab forces during their military campaigns. Calling it terror campaigns is a little dishonest, as they did the same thing in many different areas of the 48 war...and since then they have continued to conduct terrorist actions against Israel and it's people since 48 until today....Lets not forget that there was a cease fire in place things were operating normally for that area...and Hamas knowing what the consequences would be decided to do it anyways...Hamas knew what the west reaction would be, they knew they had global support for this terrorist attack, becasue global opinion of Israel is not very good...becasue of Hamas propaganda teams have done a brilliant job...even here in Canada millions of Canadians cheer on known terrorist.. Israelis military are kind of busy right now, and will be for the next couple of months... getting rid of Iran's nuke capability is going to wait...besides enriching uranium is only one step there are plenty more before one gets a nuclear weapon that can be used and launched accurately...But i can reassure you Israel knows and had been tracking what is going on, and it would not surprise me that there is a strike option already being talked about... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
CITIZEN_2015 Posted May 29, 2024 Report Posted May 29, 2024 (edited) 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: That is happening in the west bank...Hamas does not operate in the west bank, it is under the control of Fatah...two different groups of people...we are discussing the Gaza city and hamas... Yes the history of that area is written in blood by both sides...but you present only one half of the story and expect us to be converted to your thinking....thats not how this is going to work...Palestinians were willing participants in the 48 conflict, they had no problem doing the same as you describe to jewish families, they also participated in the 67 occupation which seen lands reoccupied in gaza and west bank, taken from Egypt and Jordan in battle...I get it you have no tears to shed for those jewish families that were slaughtered by Arab forces during their military campaigns. Calling it terror campaigns is a little dishonest, as they did the same thing in many different areas of the 48 war...and since then they have continued to conduct terrorist actions against Israel and it's people since 48 until today....Lets not forget that there was a cease fire in place things were operating normally for that area...and Hamas knowing what the consequences would be decided to do it anyways...Hamas knew what the west reaction would be, they knew they had global support for this terrorist attack, becasue global opinion of Israel is not very good...becasue of Hamas propaganda teams have done a brilliant job...even here in Canada millions of Canadians cheer on known terrorist.. Israelis military are kind of busy right now, and will be for the next couple of months... getting rid of Iran's nuke capability is going to wait...besides enriching uranium is only one step there are plenty more before one gets a nuclear weapon that can be used and launched accurately...But i can reassure you Israel knows and had been tracking what is going on, and it would not surprise me that there is a strike option already being talked about... Look, it is dreadfully hard for me to defend my enemies but the only reason I did was because a one-side story was presented by OP and I tried to represent the other side too to make it a fair thread otherwise I want total obliteration of Hamas and have no sympathy for Arabs or Muslims and see most of them as danger to our values so you are making it very hard for me again to post in their favor but..... in 1948 some Jewish immigrants who survived Nazi Germany in occupied Europe were moved under British rule to a land called Palestine. They were not born there. In all fairness they had no place to go but a piece of Germany should have been taken and given to them to live and build. Arabs had nothing to do with their sufferings. They immigrated to Palestine and kicked local people born there out of their lands and occupied Palestine and declare it state of Israel and ever since then used excessive force to continue their occupation. Now after 70 years of war and millions of Palestinians living in refugee camps they don't even want to give them a state to live in as Palestinian state and some people like OP want them to continue living as refugees and stateless and I am saying until Israeli and Arabs learn to live alongside each other, war and hate and terrorism and risk of destruction for Israel continues, That is all I am saying. Edited May 29, 2024 by CITIZEN_2015 1 Quote
Army Guy Posted May 29, 2024 Report Posted May 29, 2024 2 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: Look, it is dreadfully hard for me to defend my enemies but the only reason I did was because a one-side story was presented by OP and I tried to represent the other side too to make it a fair thread otherwise I want total obliteration of Hamas and have lno sympathy for Arabs or Muslims and see most of them as danger to our values so you are making it very hard to me again to post in their favor but..... in 1948 some Jewish immigrants who survived Nazi Germany in occupied Europe were moved under British rule to a land called Palestine. They were not born there. In all fairness they had no place to go but a piece of Germany should have been taken and given to them to live and build. Arabs had nothing to do with their sufferings. They immigrated to Palestine and kicked local people born there out of their lands and occupied Palestine and declare it state of Israel and ever since then used exercise force to continue their occupation. I don't hate any race, or religion, some are better than others, but for some reason Muslims prefer dictatorships thats a choice they make...Most are on the hard right of the scale of politics, and make our conservatives look like liberals...and for them it works...our problem is here in Canada we want Canadians to conform or change to our new guest,instead of vice versa... and in some cases it does not work out well for many races or religions... This is exactly what i'm talking about, most people know some of the history that happened during the WAR, and still see the jews as the bad guys...6 Million jews were exterminated by the nazis, in some european countries only a couple hundred were left..prosecuted not only by the nazis but the countries were they grew up in...If this was your family that had lost most of it's members do you really think you should live among the people that tried to exterminate all jews..would that be a reasonable request...Madagascar was mentioned, NO other country was wiling to take in large numbers of jews..including Canada...Read the british mandate from its inception to the day it ended, it will fill in a lot of your questions... Large number of jews were already in the area, so why not, palestine had both muslim and jews in the area for thousands of years, dozens had conquered the area for thousands of years...Jews were just as established as the muslims were... So where were they suppose to go...going all the way back to after WWI when the league of nations decided to break apart the ottoman empire, it created several nations, but only one jewish state out of all of them...one that was to be shared with the arabs...but in 48 when Israel was given permission to have it's own state Arabs decided that was not in the plan, and attacked, and killed many jewish families...during this fight it was tit for tat, Israel also used terrorist tactics and drove them out...and now they sit and whine about decisions made by their ancestors... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
CITIZEN_2015 Posted May 29, 2024 Report Posted May 29, 2024 (edited) 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: I don't hate any race, or religion, some are better than others, but for some reason Muslims prefer dictatorships thats a choice they make...Most are on the hard right of the scale of politics, and make our conservatives look like liberals...and for them it works...our problem is here in Canada we want Canadians to conform or change to our new guest,instead of vice versa... and in some cases it does not work out well for many races or religions... This is exactly what i'm talking about, most people know some of the history that happened during the WAR, and still see the jews as the bad guys...6 Million jews were exterminated by the nazis, in some european countries only a couple hundred were left..prosecuted not only by the nazis but the countries were they grew up in...If this was your family that had lost most of it's members do you really think you should live among the people that tried to exterminate all jews..would that be a reasonable request...Madagascar was mentioned, NO other country was wiling to take in large numbers of jews..including Canada...Read the british mandate from its inception to the day it ended, it will fill in a lot of your questions... Large number of jews were already in the area, so why not, palestine had both muslim and jews in the area for thousands of years, dozens had conquered the area for thousands of years...Jews were just as established as the muslims were... So where were they suppose to go...going all the way back to after WWI when the league of nations decided to break apart the ottoman empire, it created several nations, but only one jewish state out of all of them...one that was to be shared with the arabs...but in 48 when Israel was given permission to have it's own state Arabs decided that was not in the plan, and attacked, and killed many jewish families...during this fight it was tit for tat, Israel also used terrorist tactics and drove them out...and now they sit and whine about decisions made by their ancestors... Germany not Palestine was responsible for atrocities against Jews in the late 30's and early 40's. A peace of Germany should have been taken, its residents who were citizens of Nazi Germany and fought for Nazi Germany kicked out and re-settled in remaining parts of Germany (as a punishment for atrocities they collaborated) and their homes given to Jewish survivals (as a compensation). This scenario would have been much fairer than the current scenario under which under British rule coming to Palestine and kicking people who were born there and nothing to do with Jewish sufferings out of their homeland and occupy their land. Edited May 29, 2024 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote
Aristides Posted May 29, 2024 Report Posted May 29, 2024 5 hours ago, myata said: One cannot clap with a palm of one hand. A solution cannot be reached if the arguments of only one side are seen as valid. Eternal war or a solution where interests of both sides are heard and taken into account are the only options so by closing one we chose the other. How is it not obvious, after so many years and tragedies? Yes there needs to be a reliable, trusted partner for negotiations on the Palestine's side. No Israel cannot grab ever more of the land that doesn't belong to it, under any guises or excuses. If there's any chance for the former option above to be avoided, that is. Why is it not obvious? Israel gave Gaza back to the Palestinians in 2005. All they got for their trouble was 15 years of rocket attacks. How many other countries would have put up with that for over a week? Hamas made the attack on Oct 7 as barbaric as possible because they knew Israel would have to come out swinging. If you think Hamas gives a crap about Palestinians, you have rocks upstairs. They are just useful tools 24 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: Germany not Palestine was responsible for atrocities against Jews in the late 30's and early 40's. A peace of Germany should have been taken, its residents who were citizens of Nazi Germany and fought for Nazi Germany kicked out and re-settled in remaining parts of Germany (as a punishment for atrocities they collaborated) and their homes given to Jewish survivals (as a compensation). This scenario would have been much fairer than the current scenario under which under British rule coming to Palestine and kicking people who were born there and nothing to do with Jewish sufferings out of their homeland and occupy their land. I think most Jews would have wanted to get as far away from Germany as possible. Quote
CITIZEN_2015 Posted May 29, 2024 Report Posted May 29, 2024 9 minutes ago, Aristides said: I think most Jews would have wanted to get as far away from Germany as possible. Than why they didn't go to Australia? It is much farther from Germany than Palestine. Quote
Army Guy Posted May 29, 2024 Report Posted May 29, 2024 59 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: Germany not Palestine was responsible for atrocities against Jews in the late 30's and early 40's. A peace of Germany should have been taken, its residents who were citizens of Nazi Germany and fought for Nazi Germany kicked out and re-settled in remaining parts of Germany (as a punishment for atrocities they collaborated) and their homes given to Jewish survivals (as a compensation). This scenario would have been much fairer than the current scenario under which under British rule coming to Palestine and kicking people who were born there and nothing to do with Jewish sufferings out of their homeland and occupy their land. Your missing the point Palestine was made up of arab and jews for thousands of years, it is jewish holy ground is located in that area... Why would any jew want to live surrounded by the people that tried to exterminate them...does that not speak to you as unusual punishment.. I guess then you have a problem with the pother nations that were created by the same documents...there is atleast a dozen of them what do we do with them, and what of the people you lived there before did we kick them out or did they assimilate... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
myata Posted May 29, 2024 Report Posted May 29, 2024 44 minutes ago, Aristides said: Gaza back to the Palestinians in 2005 Gaza is not a viable state on its own. Isn't something here reminiscent of cutting out bantustans in an apartheid Africa and pretending them to be "independent"? Misrepresentations and half truths will not add anything to the picture and the solution. All this time Israel continued to encroach on what is internationally recognized, including by the United Nations as the land that does not belong to it. The same "unilateral" argument goes the other way too: Israel has the full right to defend herself within her internationally recognized borders; but the moment she steps over them, her actions become undefendable. Attacks perpetrated by Hamas absolutely amounted to war crimes. But one cannot deny, in honesty, that conservative Israeli governments contributed to the build up of hate with their policy of steady encroachment. Partial, one-sided truths will not solve anything here. The only other option is: a war to eternity. Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
myata Posted May 29, 2024 Report Posted May 29, 2024 (edited) 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: Large number of jews were already in the area, so why not, palestine had both muslim and jews in the area for thousands of years, dozens had conquered the area for thousands of years... I don't see much point in going back in time but if we have to, let's remember the objective facts of history: it's the state of Israel that was declared unilaterally, without the agreement of the majority of all of the population that resided in the territory. This is the past, but how credible is it to claim today objections due to "unilateral" recognition? The U.S. have that traditional policy but it has problems with credibility. And certainly not the expansion beyond internationally recognized borders that followed. Edited May 29, 2024 by myata Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
blackbird Posted May 29, 2024 Author Report Posted May 29, 2024 (edited) 47 minutes ago, myata said: All this time Israel continued to encroach on what is internationally recognized, including by the United Nations as the land that does not belong to it. myata, I don't think you really understand. You were probably never taught about Genesis and Israel. "7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. " Genesis 17:7, 8 King James Bible The U.N. has nothing to say about that. Israel is a unique country that God chose several thousand years ago and gave them the land of Israel. They had to fight against the heathen tribes in that area to take control. If you ever watched the movie, The Ten Commandments, you will understand how God rescued Israel out of the slavery in Egypt and led them eventually to the promised land. But they have been struggling with heathen nations ever since in that area. Now they are surrounded by tens of millions of Muslims and hostile nations who want them eliminated. They are the only democratic country in the middle east. They are a very tiny country. It would not be wise for them to carve up what little they have to give to the Arabs or Palestinians if you prefer. If the surrounding Muslim countries are so worried about it, why don't they take them in and settle them in their countries. They have vast areas and they have the same religion. But you know they don't want to take them in. Must be a reason. Edited May 30, 2024 by blackbird Quote
myata Posted May 29, 2024 Report Posted May 29, 2024 2 minutes ago, blackbird said: The U.N. has nothing to say about that. Israel is a unique country that God chose several thousand years ago and gave them the land of Israel. One god against another? Such an old, old story. And in the reality: a recipe for a war till eternity. Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
blackbird Posted May 29, 2024 Author Report Posted May 29, 2024 3 minutes ago, myata said: it's the state of Israel that was declared unilaterally, without the agreement of the majority of all of the population that resided in the territory. It doesn't matter. Remember they have struggled with the surrounding countries for centuries for their survival there. Remember they have been given that land by God. That is really all that matters. The rest of the world has no say in that. It is their sovereign land by Title given by God almighty. What other country can claim that? None. It must be respected. Jesus Christ is coming back at some point and will reign from Israel and all the enemies of God will be destroyed. Quote
myata Posted May 29, 2024 Report Posted May 29, 2024 (edited) God told us to take it from them. So, it cannot be robbery. On that basis for international stability, security and peace: no further comments. Every respectable psycho knows. Edited May 29, 2024 by myata Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
blackbird Posted May 29, 2024 Author Report Posted May 29, 2024 13 minutes ago, myata said: God told us to take it from them. So, it cannot be robbery. On that basis for international stability, security and peace: no further comments. Every respectable psycho knows. This whole business with Israel is a part of the struggle in the world between God and Satan. You have the opportunity to become a child of God and receive eternal life. Don't pass it up. I had a tooth pulled this morning and the freezing has come out. I have been in a lot of pain the last hour and took a Ibuprofen pill about an hour ago. It has helped but still get some bad pain at times. This forum helps a bit to take my mind off the pain. Be glad when it is gone completely. Quote
Aristides Posted May 29, 2024 Report Posted May 29, 2024 (edited) 39 minutes ago, myata said: Gaza is not a viable state on its own. Isn't something here reminiscent of cutting out bantustans in an apartheid Africa and pretending them to be "independent"? Misrepresentations and half truths will not add anything to the picture and the solution. All this time Israel continued to encroach on what is internationally recognized, including by the United Nations as the land that does not belong to it. The same "unilateral" argument goes the other way too: Israel has the full right to defend herself within her internationally recognized borders; but the moment she steps over them, her actions become undefendable. Attacks perpetrated by Hamas absolutely amounted to war crimes. But one cannot deny, in honesty, that conservative Israeli governments contributed to the build up of hate with their policy of steady encroachment. Partial, one-sided truths will not solve anything here. The only other option is: a war to eternity. Israelis will fight to the last rock for their existence. Never again will Jews allow themselves to be passively massacred. Until Arabs recognize that and stop calling for its elimination, we will be looking at war to eternity. 1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: Than why they didn't go to Australia? It is much farther from Germany than Palestine. Did Australia offer them a homeland? Why should they trust any country considering how they were abandoned by the international community in the 1930's? Many did go to China which offered them entry when western countries would not. Edited May 30, 2024 by Aristides Quote
Army Guy Posted May 30, 2024 Report Posted May 30, 2024 3 hours ago, myata said: I don't see much point in going back in time but if we have to, let's remember the objective facts of history: it's the state of Israel that was declared unilaterally, without the agreement of the majority of all of the population that resided in the territory. This is the past, but how credible is it to claim today objections due to "unilateral" recognition? The U.S. have that traditional policy but it has problems with credibility. And certainly not the expansion beyond internationally recognized borders that followed. Lets also remember there is NO state of palestine,just a bunch of private landowners, Most of those land owners lost their titles during their first conflict in 48, seized or forced out due to conflict...,The state of palestine has never been created, do we put that on israel as well... And if we used the same reasoning why is Canada's first nations still fighting for lands given to them by the crown...government just takes what it wants and worries about legality later...why is it all right for us to do that but not Israel... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted May 30, 2024 Report Posted May 30, 2024 4 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: Than why they didn't go to Australia? It is much farther from Germany than Palestine. You could wonder why all day long why not Canada could have given them half of Quebec,etc ... Australia was not in the offering it was already a sovereign state...Please tell us what was wrong with the lands known as palestine...because it was most arabic at the time...They had no where to go, and the league of nations decided on what was known as palestine for both people, they had already given away most of the land taken from the ottoman empire...this was the final piece...originally the state of Jordan was to be given to the jews, but Arabs did not agree to that...so they got what was left over...was it a good decision not today...but back then maybe it was the only option... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
myata Posted May 30, 2024 Report Posted May 30, 2024 8 hours ago, Army Guy said: why is it all right for us to do that but not Israel... Wait so it's only wrong to steal / rob from a state? If it's only your neighbor it should be OK, right? Is that how the thinking goes in this enlightened century? The episode you cited happened centuries back. Will the chain of self-justifications end, ever this way? Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
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