Autocrats in China, Russia are now making common cause with MAGA Republicans to discredit liberalism and freedom around the world.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, robosmith said:

Two words: CONTEXT MATTERS. Too bad you completely missed it.

"CONTEXT MATTERS. Too bad you completely missed it."  is 8 words. 

It's two periods... maybe that's what you meant?

At any rate - "The Count" from sesame street would like to have a word with you.  STAAAAAAAAARRRE. 

[ironstone]

1 hour ago, Videospirit said:

Yes, pretty much exactly that. Being concerned about those things is fine, but calling a failure to do so a crises is Xenophobia.

And what exactly are you trying to say about China or India? That the countries are weak and unable to take an influential role in the world or protect themselves because they... have too many people? The only reason China and India are major world powers today is because of their population.

For the most part it doesn't work? Only a very small number of applicants are accepted every year compared to the number of individuals who wish to migrate to the US. Props to the people who succeed in legally migrating to the US, nothing wrong with that, but most immigrants have no choice but to choose alternative routes.

Not that I'm necessarily saying the US needs to have an open border, but it wouldn't be a big deal if it did, so having a defacto half open border because the US bureaucracy, both Republican and Democrat, can't figure out any way to process the sheer number of migrants isn't any kind of crises. 

"all of these countries"?

As for Health Care and Housing, the US is the richest country in the world. They could solve both whenever they want. Housing is easy because you have more than enough labour and material to build housing to meet your needs but simply choose not to because sky high property values make more profit for less work. Healthcare might take more work to develop sustainably, but you could easily expand your healthcare capacity immensely to the point you can meet your growing needs over 20 years, and short term deficiencies could be solved by prioritizing legal immigrants and citizens. Undocumented Immigrants don't really expect to receive the full benefits of American citizens to begin with. These shortages are all artificial.

No offense, but you must be wearing the most elaborate rose coloured glasses on the planet.

Not all cultures integrate seamlessly into western society, some much worse than others.

You seem to be implying that if immigration through legal means isn't fast enough, then anyone and everyone has the right to just stroll across the border and demand benefits.

The US has it's limitations, and it's extremely arrogant to suggest that because you perceive them to be so rich that they are obligated to provide housing to all migrants. If it's so easy to address the problem, then why is Biden failing so miserably now? Illegals are provided with all kinds of benefits while veterans are left in need.

Mass immigration : US, Britain, Ireland, Scotland, France, Germany, Belgium, Australia, and of course, Canada. Many of the people forcing their way into these countries despise our type of society.

We have already seen some clashes between cultures in Canada between radical gender ideology proponents and Canada's rapidly growing Muslim population, they won't stand for that kind of stuff being forced onto their children.

[Videospirit]

2 hours ago, ironstone said:

The US has it's limitations, and it's extremely arrogant to suggest that because you perceive them to be so rich that they are obligated to provide housing to all migrants. If it's so easy to address the problem, then why is Biden failing so miserably now?

I'd like to say it's because Biden doesn't control your country, but I'm not confidant he would fix the problem even if he was given the ability to implement whatever policies he wanted. It really is not difficult for your government to just order a shitload of condos built and give lease to own contracts to homeless citizens though. They don't do it because their donors don't want them to do it. If you consider homelessness to be intolerable you'll have to convince your government to fix the problem. At least some democrats are likely open to the idea so I'd start there, as Republicans mostly seem interested in making the problem worse.

 

2 hours ago, ironstone said:

Illegals are provided with all kinds of benefits while veterans are left in need.

Citation Needed. Undocumented Immigrants don't get benefits because... they aren't documented in your system to get benefits, it's right there in the name. I'm not aware of any issues Biden has given to veterans either. He seems to support veterans. Has he vetoed any legislation providing veteran benefits? Has he tried to have veterans removed from any government programs under his authority? This comment just sounds like pure delusional nonsense with no basis in reality. If Veterans aren't getting enough support, you need to complain to the Republicans who control the house to pass legislation to give them that support.

[robosmith]

3 hours ago, ironstone said:

Illegals are provided with all kinds of benefits while veterans are left in need.

You're LYING. Veterans have all kinds of benefits, esp free healthcare at the VA.

There is no free healthcare for immigrants beyond that necessary to protect CITIZENS from epidemics.

Veterans Benefits Administration Home

Veterans Benefits Administration (.gov)

https://www.benefits.va.gov

 

 

 

 

Veterans Benefits Administration provides financial and other forms of assistance to veterans and their dependents. This page provides links to benefit ...

Elderly Veterans VA Benefits. Elderly Veterans may be eligible for a wide-variety of ...

VA eBenefits AccessVA Home - Manage Your Benefits - Apply for Benefits - ...

Applying for Benefits The best way to apply for your education benefits is by going to ...

VA Benefits For Spouses ... VA Caregiver Support Line - Fiduciary - Coaching Into Care

Compensation Portal to where VA compensation and pension benefits programs ...

More results from va.gov »

[robosmith]

Russian Disinformation Videos Smear Biden Ahead of U.S. Election

Quote

Russian operatives are leaning into videos, many of them that falsely purport to be made by independent journalists or whistle-blowers. The videos, opposed to blog or social media posts, are more likely to spread beyond the conspiratorial fringes of America and become part of mainstream discourse. 

Someday even the MAGA CULT will admit that there is illegal Russian campaign aid which Trump is happy to get and EXPLOIT.

[CdnFox]

8 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Russian Disinformation Videos Smear Biden Ahead of U.S. Election

Someday even the MAGA CULT will admit that there is illegal Russian campaign aid which Trump is happy to get and EXPLOIT.

Only if someday there is one.  

[ironstone]

13 hours ago, Videospirit said:

Citation Needed. Undocumented Immigrants don't get benefits because... they aren't documented in your system to get benefits, it's right there in the name.

Health insurance. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/12/29/1221780712/more-states-extend-health-coverage-to-immigrants-even-as-issue-inflames-gop

They get put up in hotels. That's a benefit.

Unemployment benefits. They want more. 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/the-cost-of-illegal-immigration-migrants-cost-us-taxpayers-billions-a-year

https://www.newsweek.com/migrants-food-money-new-york-snap-benefits-1867058

[Videospirit]

2 hours ago, ironstone said:

Health insurance. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/12/29/1221780712/more-states-extend-health-coverage-to-immigrants-even-as-issue-inflames-gop

They get put up in hotels. That's a benefit.

Unemployment benefits. They want more. 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/the-cost-of-illegal-immigration-migrants-cost-us-taxpayers-billions-a-year

https://www.newsweek.com/migrants-food-money-new-york-snap-benefits-1867058

Rofl "Mixed households of American citizens and undocumented immigrants qualify for household based benefits!"

That's your argument? You either want to take away rights from American citizens, want to split up households by taking their children away from their parents, or hate your constitution but I'm not sure what. Regardless you aren't making the argument you say you're making.

And it's also ignoring the fact that undocumented immigrants still pay taxes despite their personal ineligibility for most services paid for by those taxes, paying far more in taxes than even the stuff you're complaining about. Social Security alone probably would have failed by now if it wasn't for undocumented immigrants.

[ironstone]

1 hour ago, Videospirit said:

Rofl "Mixed households of American citizens and undocumented immigrants qualify for household based benefits!"

That's your argument? You either want to take away rights from American citizens, want to split up households by taking their children away from their parents, or hate your constitution but I'm not sure what. Regardless you aren't making the argument you say you're making.

And it's also ignoring the fact that undocumented immigrants still pay taxes despite their personal ineligibility for most services paid for by those taxes, paying far more in taxes than even the stuff you're complaining about. Social Security alone probably would have failed by now if it wasn't for undocumented immigrants.

I've posted examples, but you've closed your mind to anything I say. Why is Eric Adams in NY complaining about the 'cost' of all these illegals? According to you the illegals are paying taxes that more than make up for what they get in return.

Certainly debatable at the very least.

https://nypost.com/2023/02/07/biden-migrant-crisis-to-cost-nyc-4-2-billion/

Does the right to enter the US or any other western country work both ways in your world? How will it work out if someone from the US tries to enter China, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Cuba or any similar country through illegal means?

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, ironstone said:

I've posted examples, but you've closed your mind to anything I say. Why is Eric Adams in NY complaining about the 'cost' of all these illegals? According to you the illegals are paying taxes that more than make up for what they get in return.

Certainly debatable at the very least.

https://nypost.com/2023/02/07/biden-migrant-crisis-to-cost-nyc-4-2-billion/

Does the right to enter the US or any other western country work both ways in your world? How will it work out if someone from the US tries to enter China, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Cuba or any similar country through illegal means?

Immigrants are not ALLOWED to work for MONTHS after their asylum claims are filed.

Fixing that WAS part of the bipartisan immigration bill that Trump KILLED so he could keep blaming Dems.

[Fluffypants]

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

Immigrants are not ALLOWED to work for MONTHS after their asylum claims are filed.

Fixing that WAS part of the bipartisan immigration bill that Trump KILLED so he could keep blaming Dems.

That shouldn't be fixed, working is part of allure of coming here. If you are a true asylum seeker you would just be happy you were safe. Asylum is supposed to be rare and only for extreme reasons, not because they are poor.

[Videospirit]

2 hours ago, ironstone said:

Does the right to enter the US or any other western country work both ways in your world?

At no point did I say the migrants have a right to migrate to the US.

My points are as follows:

1. Migrants ultimately add to the strength and economy of the United States, allowing them into the country will not cause the collapse of America or any other serious crises. It's not something you actually need to be concerned about about as a regular citizen.

2. The cost to Americans necessary to keep them out would be immense, so much so that none of your politicians can agree on a proposal to end the practice. All the methods that could achieve the goal are extremely impractical. Just securing the US border alone would be a massive undertaking, and you would need to completely ban all legal travel by non citizens to America as well, which would have a devastating impact on the US economy. It's much easier to just accept that people are going to migrate to the country whether you want them to or not.

3. There is a third way to prevent immigration. That is to make America a country that is not desirable to live in. Why you would entertain this approach baffles my mind as if undocumented immigrants don't want to live in a country, citizens quality of life isn't much better. Still, by all means adopt "Make America a shithole" as your political slogan if you feel that strongly about it.

2 hours ago, ironstone said:

How will it work out if someone from the US tries to enter China, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Cuba or any similar country through illegal means?

See point 3 above.

 

1 minute ago, Fluffypants said:

That shouldn't be fixed, working is part of allure of coming here. If you are a true asylum seeker you would just be happy you were safe. Asylum is supposed to be rare and only for extreme reasons, not because they are poor.

It comes down to "Do you want to make the process inexpensive? Or do you want to make the process difficult?" because you can't have both. A ban on working in the US just costs the US money without any benefit if you're going to accept the applicant in the end anyway. Accepting any migrant who genuinely wants to work and live in America is net benefit as well.

[robosmith]

4 hours ago, Fluffypants said:

That shouldn't be fixed, working is part of allure of coming here. If you are a true asylum seeker you would just be happy you were safe. Asylum is supposed to be rare and only for extreme reasons, not because they are poor.

It would be rare if Central American countries' governments were not disintegrating from drug gang wars.

You know, caused by demand from US users.

[Nationalist]

10 hours ago, Videospirit said:

At no point did I say the migrants have a right to migrate to the US.

My points are as follows:

1. Migrants ultimately add to the strength and economy of the United States, allowing them into the country will not cause the collapse of America or any other serious crises. It's not something you actually need to be concerned about about as a regular citizen.

2. The cost to Americans necessary to keep them out would be immense, so much so that none of your politicians can agree on a proposal to end the practice. All the methods that could achieve the goal are extremely impractical. Just securing the US border alone would be a massive undertaking, and you would need to completely ban all legal travel by non citizens to America as well, which would have a devastating impact on the US economy. It's much easier to just accept that people are going to migrate to the country whether you want them to or not.

3. There is a third way to prevent immigration. That is to make America a country that is not desirable to live in. Why you would entertain this approach baffles my mind as if undocumented immigrants don't want to live in a country, citizens quality of life isn't much better. Still, by all means adopt "Make America a shithole" as your political slogan if you feel that strongly about it.

See point 3 above.

 

It comes down to "Do you want to make the process inexpensive? Or do you want to make the process difficult?" because you can't have both. A ban on working in the US just costs the US money without any benefit if you're going to accept the applicant in the end anyway. Accepting any migrant who genuinely wants to work and live in America is net benefit as well.

Errr...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Repatriation

It was done before...it can be done again.

[CdnFox]

14 hours ago, Videospirit said:

At no point did I say the migrants have a right to migrate to the US.

My points are as follows:

1. Migrants ultimately add to the strength and economy of the United States, allowing them into the country will not cause the collapse of America or any other serious crises. It's not something you actually need to be concerned about about as a regular citizen.

Migration CAN be good  but it can also be very very bad. That is why it must be controlled. Failure to control it leads to disaster. So your first point is invalid,  uncontrolled migration weakens the country. 

Quote

2. The cost to Americans necessary to keep them out would be immense, so much so that none of your politicians can agree on a proposal to end the practice. All the methods that could achieve the goal are extremely impractical. Just securing the US border alone would be a massive undertaking, and you would need to completely ban all legal travel by non citizens to America as well, which would have a devastating impact on the US economy. It's much easier to just accept that people are going to migrate to the country whether you want them to or not.

The cost actually wouldn't be that high to resolve the vast majority of the problem. It would just require buy in. A series of changes to the laws that made better enforcement and instant deportation a thing would go a long way without significantly increasing prices just by itself.  During the covid measures the "remain" policy which required people to remain in mexico while they applied radically reduced illegal immigration.  

It would not be hard to vastly reduce illegal crossings or in country presence without drastically increasing price.

 

Quote

3. There is a third way to prevent immigration. That is to make America a country that is not desirable to live in. Why you would entertain this approach baffles my mind as if undocumented immigrants don't want to live in a country, citizens quality of life isn't much better. Still, by all means adopt "Make America a shithole" as your political slogan if you feel that strongly about it.

In order to achieve that you'd have to be worse than all their other options. That would cost vastly vastly more than securing the border so you've already shot that down as an idea 

 

However you're wrong. The third way is to make america a country that is not desirable for THEM (the illegal).   Strict laws, strict deportation policies and jail time for reepeat offenders (use them as slave labour to build a wall Nyuck nyuck!), other legal and practical methods to make it completely undesirable to be in the US illegally.  

That would achieve the same or better results without having to turn the country itself into a shit hole. 

 

See?  All your concerns were unfounded. Go ahead and proceed