Satan is a Socialist

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

It is not necessary for the Bible to use the word "Socialism".  The Bible condemns the ideology.  The right to own private property is a very basic belief that is taught by the commandment "thou shalt not steal" and "thou shalt not covet".  Socialism is theft.

 

 

 

The socialism is equally to theft part is your own interpretation. I would say taxation is closer to tithing, which Jesus supported.

Edited April 23 by Michael Hardner

[Gaétan]

9 hours ago, blackbird said:

"

All Forms of Socialism Are Theft

Central to the moral argument against socialism and quasi-socialism is the 8th commandment: 

You shall not steal (Exodus 20:15; Deuteronomy 5:19).

This command teaches the concept of private property and forbids the taking of property from an innocent person. God added to this condemnation of socialism by prohibiting envy in the 10th commandment:

You shall not covet (Exodus 20:17; Deuteronomy 5:21).  

God is a capitalist, which we know because God endorses private property. This is inferred from the 8th commandment. The prohibition of theft assumes that people own things. Of course, everything in this world belongs to God. Yet He has delegated control and responsibility of things to individuals. We call this private property rights."

The Bible Prohibits Socialism — Knowing Scripture

The true law is to treat others as yourself and others laws come from this law and as rich don't share with poor they don't treat others as themself then we got to take their surplus they stole to people. Take from rich is not theft it is just give back to people the money they stole.

Edited April 23 by Gaétan

[blackbird]

34 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

The true law is to treat others as yourself and others laws come from this law and as rich don't share with poor they don't treat others as themself then we got to take their surplus they stole to people. Take from rich is not theft it is just give back to people the money they stole.

You have no idea what the Bible teaches and just use it for your own Communist ideas.

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The socialism is equally to theft part is your own interpretation. I would say taxation is closer to tithing, which Jesus supported.

Seriously Michael?  Give us a break. Nobody is going to swallow that one.

There is nothing voluntary about taxation.  It is compulsory.  

Charity is voluntary.  

[Queenmandy85]

20 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Seriously Michael?  Give us a break. Nobody is going to swallow that one.

There is nothing voluntary about taxation.  It is compulsory.  

Charity is voluntary.  

It costs money to operate a government in the 21st century. To acquire than money, governments collect taxes. Taxation is the purview of Parliament. You elected your MP and MLA to do this. The fact that you are posting on this forum indicates you attended a school funded by taxpayers. Do you have tens of thousands of dollars to pay for your own healthcare? I don't. Where do you suggest governments get the money to pay for services designed to keep you and your decendents alive?

[blackbird]

43 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

It costs money to operate a government in the 21st century. To acquire than money, governments collect taxes. Taxation is the purview of Parliament. You elected your MP and MLA to do this. The fact that you are posting on this forum indicates you attended a school funded by taxpayers. Do you have tens of thousands of dollars to pay for your own healthcare? I don't. Where do you suggest governments get the money to pay for services designed to keep you and your decendents alive?

You totally missed the point.  Surely you understand the difference between government taxation for basic necessary services such as roads, police, and armed forces and a Socialist system where the government taxes the population very heavily to provide all kinds of social services and spend money for everything under the sun.

This is child's stuff.  There is a big difference between basic government and Socialist government that imposes extreme taxation in various forms and intrudes into everyone's life and has a huge bureaucracy to intervene and control society in every way imaginable, including all kinds of social programs.   That is Socialism.

Don't try to pretend Socialism is just normal government.   

Also don't make false claims that it would cost tens of thousands for a person to get health care.  That is fear mongering and is false.   

You would have health insurance whereby you pay a monthly premium and if you need a health care service, you pay a reasonable or small deductible.  Nobody who is in poverty would be required to pay it.  But health insurance should be compulsory for most people.  Don't forget everyone pays for a failing public system through their taxes.  It is not free.   But hopefully  you would have fast and effective health care if the private sector was more involved.  Not the long waiting lists where people die waiting as we have now.  You should be thinking about how to get people good fast health care to give them a good quality of life, instead of supporting a failing public system that is harming countless people.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Seriously Michael?  Give us a break. Nobody is going to swallow that one.

There is nothing voluntary about taxation.  It is compulsory.  

Charity is voluntary.  

Tithing was an obligation according in old testament traditions.  For you to associate that with Satanism is an incorrect interpretation.  I don't know you, but respectfully this seems like changing scripture to suit one's own preferences.

That has also been done with dietary rules, lending of money, keeping the sabbath holy, wearing unclean garments, divorce etc. etc. etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithes_in_Judaism#cite_note-4

If you want to all of a sudden bring a strict interpretation to one part of scripture and not another, it makes people ask "why" ?

[blackbird]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Tithing was an obligation according in old testament traditions.  For you to associate that with Satanism is an incorrect interpretation.

Seriously?   I am not associating tithing with Satanism..  Tithing was an old testament requirement for Jews to support their religion several thousand years ago.  Tithing means giving 10% to the Jewish religion.  It has absolutely nothing to do with Socialism. 

It has nothing to do with Socialism or Satanism.

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Seriously?   I am not associating tithing with Satanism..  Tithing was an old testament requirement for Jews to support their religion several thousand years ago.  Tithing means giving 10% to the Jewish religion.  It has absolutely nothing to do with Socialism. 

It has nothing to do with Socialism or Satanism.

Taxation... is the foundation of socialism.  So you are deep diving into subtle differences between tithing - which was encouraged and even mandated - and taxation, then progressive taxation, then socialism.

If taxation is theft then mandatory tithing is... ?

Again if you want to split hairs on this, then why do you presumably wear polyfibres or eat shrimp ?

[blackbird]

26 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

If taxation is theft then mandatory tithing is... ?

Nonsense.  

"Tithing is an Old Testament concept. The tithe was a requirement of the Law in which the Israelites were to give 10 percent of the crops they grew and the livestock they raised to the tabernacle/temple (Leviticus 27:30; Numbers 18:26; Deuteronomy 14:24; 2 Chronicles 31:5). In fact, the Old Testament Law required multiple tithes—one for the Levites, one for the use of the temple and the feasts, and one for the poor of the land—which would have pushed the total to around 23.3 percent. Some understand the Old Testament tithe as a method of taxation to provide for the needs of the priests and Levites in the sacrificial system."

What does the Bible say about Christian tithing? Should a Christian tithe? | GotQuestions.org

Tithing was a part of the Jewish religion several thousand years ago.  It applied to the Jews only within their religion to support their priests and whoever required to be supported.  It does not apply today in Christianity or churches, although some try to use the Old Testament tithing law to get more money out of people.

It has absolutely nothing to do with Socialism and government imposed excessive taxation to run Socialist programs.  A certain amount of taxation is understandable to provide basic services.  But when it becomes excessive as in Socialism or Communism then it becomes theft.  Forced wealth confiscation or denial of private property is against the ten commandments that say "thou shalt not steal".  Just because it is government, they do not have the right to confiscate people's money for a Socialist agenda.  That is Communism, Marxism or Socialism.

Edited April 23 by blackbird

[blackbird]

33 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

If taxation is theft then mandatory tithing is... ?

Not all taxation is theft.  It is understandable that we need police, roads, infrastructure such as water and sewer, and armed forces.  Socialism is EXCESSIVE or EXTREME taxation for the purposes of running a Socialist system and wealth re-distribution.  That is theft or Communism, Socialism, or Marxism.  It has nothing to do with the Jewish religion' tithing thousands of years ago to support their priests, etc.  Tithing is not taught in the New Testament and does not apply to Christianity.

Edited April 23 by blackbird

[Legato]

A more apt thread title would be "Extreme socialism tends to embrace more Satanic principles".

[Michael Hardner]

51 minutes ago, blackbird said:

  Socialism is EXCESSIVE or EXTREME taxation for the purposes of running a Socialist system and wealth re-distribution.   

What other sins are defined by the degree to which they are committed? Which of the ten Commandments are you allowed to do a little bit? 

 

Again... These are interpretations that twist scriptures.

[impartialobserver]

13 hours ago, blackbird said:

It is not necessary for the Bible to use the word "Socialism".  The Bible condemns the ideology.  The right to own private property is a very basic belief that is taught by the commandment "thou shalt not steal" and "thou shalt not covet".  Socialism is theft.

 

 

 

Actually it is necessary for the connection to be 1 to 1 and therefore true. If not.. it is subjective and nothing but opinion. 

[blackbird]

38 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

What other sins are defined by the degree to which they are committed? Which of the ten Commandments are you allowed to do a little bit? 

For a guy who is an atheist, it's strange how you try to use the Bible in a discussion.  Twisting scripture though.

You are not to sin period.   

I never said some taxation was a sin.  I already explained how some services are necessary. 

Excessive taxation can be part of Socialism.

4 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Actually it is necessary for the connection to be 1 to 1 and therefore true. If not.. it is subjective and nothing but opinion. 

A perverse way of reasoning and totally false.

[impartialobserver]

9 minutes ago, blackbird said:

For a guy who is an atheist, it's strange how you try to use the Bible in a discussion.  Twisting scripture though.

You are not to sin period.   

I never said some taxation was a sin.  I already explained how some services are necessary. 

Excessive taxation can be part of Socialism.

A perverse way of reasoning and totally false.

perverse.. in other words.. it does not fit your subjective opinions. In short, all you have is opinion. It would be fact if the words were explicitly used. 

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, impartialobserver said:

perverse.. in other words.. it does not fit your subjective opinions. In short, all you have is opinion. It would be fact if the words were explicitly used. 

"31  And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."  Genesis 1:31

Genesis chapter one tells how God created everything in six days.  Do you think it was a fact?

Edited April 23 by blackbird

[Queenmandy85]

It is easier for a camel to walk through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the gates of Heaven.

If you think taxes are high in Canada, go to Norway. 

The level of intrusion of government in peoples' lives is determined by the people, through their Parliament.

I get the sense that some of you are under the impression Mr. Trudeau is going to be Prime Minister forever.

 

 

Edited April 23 by Queenmandy85
Removed the dumbest parts

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

1. For a guy who is an atheist, it's strange how you try to use the Bible in a discussion.  Twisting scripture though.

2. You are not to sin period.    I never said some taxation was a sin.  I already explained how some services are necessary.  Excessive taxation can be part of Socialism

3. A perverse way of reasoning and totally false.

1. That's weird to ME because you're a non-atheist using the bible to justify policies that I have to live by.  And I would rather you not post the bible, but if you insist I will occupy that domain and explain why you are wrong (in my opinion)

2. Right - but you are saying 'excessive' taxation is socialism which is akin to the devil.  So at some point it becomes a sin ?  That's rather arbitrary and I can't think of another sin that works that way... ie. you can do a LITTLE adultery murder stealing coveting blaspheming etc.
3. Please address why YOUR interpretation of levels of taxation that amount to sinfulness should be heeded ?

[blackbird]

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. Please address why YOUR interpretation of levels of taxation that amount to sinfulness should be heeded ?

It's simple logic.  How many times do I have to repeat this?   

If you are taxed to pay for police or fire fighting or roads, drinking, and sewer, that is a necessity.  If you are taxed so Trudeau or Singh can implement their Socialist agenda, that is stealing and sinful.  Get it yet?

That's the difference between a free enterprise system and a Communist or Socialist system that takes your money to theoretically redistribute the wealth.

Edited April 23 by blackbird

[blackbird]

14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. Please address why YOUR interpretation of levels of taxation that amount to sinfulness should be heeded ?

"

Is Taxation Ever Allowed?

Some will respond, “Following this logic, are not all taxes and government programs theft?” One possible response is yes, which has some appeal due to its consistency (the view of anarcho-capitalism). However, a more biblical response is that some taxes are legitimate because some government functions are legitimate. Thus, we need to understand the proper role of civil government.

It is important to understand that God designed government to enforce what are known as “negative rights.” You have a right to not be killed or stolen from. Hence the “negative.” But you do not have a right to food or shelter or anything else that belongs to someone else. You have to work for these things and buy these things through voluntary exchange. Thus, it is warped when it is said that humans have a “right” to things like healthcare or education.

The only “positive rights” are those which are owed you out of a contract (such as the benefits of an insurance policy if certain conditions are met). And government does have an obligation to enforce such contracts. This is the only role of government in regard to positive rights. The government does not owe you any good or service, contrary to what socialists like to claim.

God’s institution of civil government has a purpose, and that purpose is to protect property rights. In other words, God has designed the state to enforce the 8th commandment (as well as the 6th, 7th, and other commandments). It is all great when nobody steals. But people are sinful and steal/murder/destroy, and that is where government comes in. Of course, we have a problem when government is the one doing the stealing."

The Bible Prohibits Socialism — Knowing Scripture

[impartialobserver]

4 hours ago, blackbird said:

"31  And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."  Genesis 1:31

Genesis chapter one tells how God created everything in six days.  Do you think it was a fact?

Totally unrelated but that is your character. 

[Queenmandy85]

7 hours ago, blackbird said:

Is Taxation Ever Allowed?

Taxation is almost universal and an ancient tradition. Who do you think paid for Offa's Dyke? Canadians pay moderate taxes compared to some other nations with a similar ranking in the quality of life. Perhaps we should just count our blessings. Blackbird seems to be advancing an American idea of government. That is his right. (And I aplologize if I am incorrect). It may be fine for our neighbours but it is alien to us.

Edited April 24 by Queenmandy85

[blackbird]

13 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Canadians pay moderate taxes

Yes one third of the price of gas in B.C. are government taxes, including carbon tax.  We have the highest gas prices in north America.  Right now regular gas is over two dollars a litre.  Just another thing on top of outrageous prices for homes and groceries that is pushing many people into homelessness and despair.

[impartialobserver]

The first clue that someone has not actually read Das Kapital (the magnum opus for socialism/communism) is that they focus on the authoritarian ways that governments have done in the name of soclalism. If you read Marx (which the OP has not).. you would know that Marx did not support this but thought that it would inevitably lead this. His writings are more prediction than telling society what to do. Where he was wrong was that he completely missed the technology bandwagon.