Transgenderism and sports

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Is THIS an argument ?

What is the point you're making with the picture? If the picture illustrates it, then yes. It is an argument. Or rather, supports the argument that you're making.

I see it like Wendy's stating that while they like to clown around and treat their customers like kings, that freezing their burgers just doesn't live up to their freshness promise. Their argument would support the picture of a crown and a random clown, to take digs as their biggest competitors.

If they clarified what point they were making and you were adamant that pictures don't make points, millions or others would likely have appreciated the dig.

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Because a picture closes the argument.

In your opinion. You chose to post a picture with nothing supporting it. I supported mine. I would have a dozen arguments that could be made with that picture, from comical to political and in between.

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You can't expect me to be not-moody all the time

I can if you're trying to paint yourself as rational, logical and even tempered.

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

That strikes me as crazy

Sanity is the playground for the unimaginative. 

Am crazy and proud. People should embrace their inner child, not stiffle it. I appreciate what I have, because I know what it feels like to have your stomach in knots with nothing.

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm saying that arguments should be universal if you want them to resonate to someone who lives outside your skull.

Who says I want them to resonate? 

[Michael Hardner]

7 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

1. What is the point you're making with the picture? If the picture illustrates it, then yes. It is an argument. Or rather, supports the argument that you're making.

2. I see it like Wendy's stating that while they like to clown around and treat their customers like kings, that freezing their burgers just doesn't live up to their freshness promise. Their argument would support the picture of a crown and a random clown, to take digs as their biggest competitors.

3. In your opinion. You chose to post a picture with nothing supporting it. I supported mine. I would have a dozen arguments that could be made with that picture, from comical to political and in between.

4. Sanity is the playground for the unimaginative. 

5. Who says I want them to resonate? 

1. Same as yours: to typify a group by showing an individual.
2. Right.  Exactly.  I hold these discussions to a higher standard.
3. Like "This is Trump nation." ?  Like that ?
4. Insanity is the playground for the imaginative ?  What ?
5. If you don't want them to resonate then ... you don't want people to get your message.

[CdnFox]

On 5/3/2024 at 6:47 PM, Entonianer09 said:

Totaly agree with you here, in my opinion the reasonbale solution, without excluding transgender people would be to instead of gedner starrting to catagorize competitions like these after a measurement like weight-class or something else  that is NOT sexn related.

It's a nice idea but it doesn't work.

Men and women are built fundamentally different. Bone structure, muscles, other factors mean that a man and woman of the same weight are NOT a 'match' the way people of the same sex would be. You can't take a 100 lb woman and a 100 lb man and call it equivalent .

There's no 'compromise' to be had here.  At the end of the day a bio woman and a bio man are not the same.  And for those sports where there's a physical reason to separate men and women then unfortunately the trans will have to compete in their biological category OR have a seperate 'trans' woman and 'trans men' category.

That might hurt their feelings a little. But it hurts my feelings that i'm too short to play in the NBA - but that IS the physical reality of it

 

[Perspektiv]

On 5/6/2024 at 11:43 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Same as yours

Pointing out hypocrisy? Nice.

On 5/6/2024 at 11:43 AM, Michael Hardner said:

 I hold these discussions to a higher standard.

I don't take them too serious. 

On 5/6/2024 at 11:43 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Like that ?

Nope.

On 5/6/2024 at 11:43 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Insanity is the playground for the imaginative ? 

Embrace your inner child.

You don't make it out of this place alive.

On 5/6/2024 at 11:43 AM, Michael Hardner said:

you don't want people to get your message.

Most people don't need help getting my message. I think what you're saying,  is you would like my message to resonate with you. 

[Perspektiv]

29 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You can't take a 100 lb woman and a 100 lb man and call it equivalent .

Exactly.

Especially so, if you have allowed her to experience puberty. 

There is a reason why girls no longer compete with the boys past a certain age. 

"Competition" sort of should mean something.

On 5/3/2024 at 9:47 PM, Entonianer09 said:

without excluding transgender people would be to instead

I don't think feeling trans people shouldn't compete with biological people in competitive sports is exclusion.

I see it like speed limits in residential areas with tons of kids. 

I think its common sense.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

1. Nope.

2. Most people don't need help getting my message. I think what you're saying,  is you would like my message to resonate with you. 

1. Why not?

2. I'd like a chance to be convinced.  Even if I agreed that there is a type of person who matches the picture... so what ?  An entire nation of selfish assh0les could (and have) make decisions that help them... so calling them assh0les doesn't go anywhere.  Calling Trump an assho0e doesn't go anywhere.

[Perspektiv]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'd like a chance to be convinced

Why should I need to convince someone? You either agree or don't.  Life goes on.

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Why should I need to convince someone? You either agree or don't.  Life goes on.

What do you think a discussion board IS?  A list of opinions?

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

What do you think a discussion board IS?  A list of opinions?

Is it really  

[Perspektiv]

15 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

What do you think a discussion board IS?

You think way too deeply into this.

Most come here to waste time, and/or hopefully learn something. I would be willing to bet the majority fall into the former.

I don't put too much thought into this website. 

9 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Is it really

I don't understand how this isn't just a bunch of people voicing their opinions on various subjects.

Agree? Great. Don't,  then voice your counter argument and move on with your life.

Michael reminds me of an elderly man who stopped me on my bike, as I was biking on a bike path when I was a youth, but to get to it, required you to bike about 10 feet on a walking path which was included on that bike path, including signage (you just knew because there weren't painted lines).

He stopped me, and angrily demanded me to walk my bike. I told him there weren't anyone on the walking path, and that it technically was part of the bike path pointing to signs.

He lectured me about the 10 feet I was biking on, was designed for pedestrians.

I reminded him that I was biking slowly, and technically wasn't on a sidewalk. Kids biked on this all the time, as it led to a playground. It was designed to be shared, and nobody was in front of me.

We debated over this for a solid 5 minutes, when I realized he wasn't going to stop until I accepted he was right, but not only this, bowed down to his will.

I felt I was straddling gray area, and hadn't affected anyone.

He then complained that youth don't have any respect anymore. I told him he approached me rudely and condescendingly. Expecting anything but resistance, is foolishness.

He was waiving his dog poop bag as he started walking closer.

I reminded him I had called him sir, throughout our exchange and hadn't raised my voice, and had stopped so was clearly open to listen.

He got more condescending, and got the dual middle finger salute as he demanded I get off the bike, or else, as he was starting to waive his poop bag waaaaay too close, as he gestured.

"Very professional!", he scowled--then got the middle fingers with some sass.

It was either that, or beat him and force him to eat the sh*t bag he was waving in my face. I think I picked peace.

He made this sound like he was having a stroke, at the level of shock I wasn't falling in line at his demands.

Him trying to run after me, being about 80, was just comedy as he waived and shouted angrily. 

[CdnFox]

35 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

You think way too deeply into this.

Most come here to waste time, and/or hopefully learn something. I would be willing to bet the majority fall into the former.

I don't put too much thought into this website. 

I don't understand how this isn't just a bunch of people voicing their opinions on various subjects.

Agree? Great. Don't,  then voice your counter argument and move on with your life.

Michael reminds me of an elderly man who stopped me on my bike, as I was biking on a bike path when I was a youth, but to get to it, required you to bike about 10 feet on a walking path which was included on that bike path, including signage (you just knew because there weren't painted lines).

He stopped me, and angrily demanded me to walk my bike. I told him there weren't anyone on the walking path, and that it technically was part of the bike path pointing to signs.

He lectured me about the 10 feet I was biking on, was designed for pedestrians.

I reminded him that I was biking slowly, and technically wasn't on a sidewalk. Kids biked on this all the time, as it led to a playground. It was designed to be shared, and nobody was in front of me.

We debated over this for a solid 5 minutes, when I realized he wasn't going to stop until I accepted he was right, but not only this, bowed down to his will.

I felt I was straddling gray area, and hadn't affected anyone.

He then complained that youth don't have any respect anymore. I told him he approached me rudely and condescendingly. Expecting anything but resistance, is foolishness.

He was waiving his dog poop bag as he started walking closer.

I reminded him I had called him sir, throughout our exchange and hadn't raised my voice, and had stopped so was clearly open to listen.

He got more condescending, and got the dual middle finger salute as he demanded I get off the bike, or else, as he was starting to waive his poop bag waaaaay too close, as he gestured.

"Very professional!", he scowled--then got the middle fingers with some sass.

It was either that, or beat him and force him to eat the sh*t bag he was waving in my face. I think I picked peace.

He made this sound like he was having a stroke, at the level of shock I wasn't falling in line at his demands.

Him trying to run after me, being about 80, was just comedy as he waived and shouted angrily. 

LOL   i can pretty much see the event in my mind  

I've been very direct with Mike about my issues with him,  I feel he tends to use debate 'tricks' and refuses to actually discuss things. He will often say 'well i don't know what you could POSSIBLY be talking about but point it out when it happens and i'll correct it"..   When you point them out later he either goes silent or gets angry.

But that's really all he does. He doesn't discuss or debate or put forward sound arguments, he tends to distract, change the subject or frequently says "I stopped reading there" (because i didn't like what you said).   As if not listening to people is some kind of flex.

And there are many people like that i've run into over the years. They don't want a discussion. They aren't particularly bright. They don't have any useful views.  So they use a series of debate 'tricks' like bait and switch, downplaying, gaslighting, ad hominem and straw man arguments to give the appearance of pseduo-intellectualism while really just crapping on things that their echo chamber doesn't like.

 

I honestly think one of our biggest problems in our country is that we've lost the ability to have an honest discussion with disagreements, I think far too many people try to go for 'debate tricks'.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

 

I don't put too much thought into this website. 

 

Noted.

[Perspektiv]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

I honestly think one of our biggest problems in our country is that we've lost the ability to have an honest discussion with disagreements

I grew up loving debate. The more heated, the better.

I grew up in an era, where I could have a heated debate with you, and lunch with you the next minute. I appreciated all we were doing, was exchanging ideas. If mine conflicted with yours, it wasn't the end of the world.

I am insanely curious. That nature alone makes me prone to question things when am being pushed not to.

Calling me a chud or a racist, or transphobe for questioning something that makes no sense, will make me question it tenfold.

[CdnFox]

26 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I grew up loving debate. The more heated, the better.

I grew up in an era, where I could have a heated debate with you, and lunch with you the next minute. I appreciated all we were doing, was exchanging ideas. If mine conflicted with yours, it wasn't the end of the world.

I am insanely curious. That nature alone makes me prone to question things when am being pushed not to.

Calling me a chud or a racist, or transphobe for questioning something that makes no sense, will make me question it tenfold.

Agreed. Or playing the debate tricks, like "the sun came up in the east today"  CITE!?!?!    Or "man that's so unimportant a topic i'm insulted we're even discussing it".  Or as you say "well the only reason you think that is you're a chud/nazi/homophobe/county-western-singer.