Ukraine Can't Win the War

[Nationalist]

13 minutes ago, User said:

If you cared so much about lies and deception, you would not be pushing the Russian lies and deception. 

 

*sigh*

Have you ever asked yourself WHY the USA and Western Nations despise Russia so much? I mean...since the Soviet Union fell...what real threat did they pose to The West? For the first decade and a half, Russia was reeling from economic ruin. They were essentially neutered. Today even...they are no real match for Western economic power. Especially the USA. So why?

In 1990, the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund and assorted other financial institutions began offering the former Soviet Satellite states MASSIVE loans, in return for agreements to allow Western business concerns to buy up their infrastructure. Water systems, hi-way systems, oil and gas systems, retail systems, etc. Every one of the major Satellite states...Czech, Poland, Hungary, etc...took the deal. They began buying everything of value. They moved in the EU. They moved in NATO. After a decade...they owned these nations. They still do. Today...the middle class has all but been destroyed in these nations.

About the same time, they went to buy Russia. They made the same overtures to Putin and what was his response? In essence he told them to 'suck rocks'. I believe the famous quote was something like, 'I'd rather create Russian oligarchs, than to enrich Western oligarchs.'

Now...of all the former Soviet states, Russia has the biggest potential for profitability. They hold a HUGE cache of natural resources. User...the goal has never been to protect The West from Russia...the goal has always been to BUY Russia. They have been trying to force Russia into a corner all along. Now the idea is to deplete them so thoroughly that they'd have no choice but to sell out. Unfortunately...China happened...BRICS happened...new alliances that have been helping to keep Russia afloat happened. The world is being split in 2 and are all now preparing for all out war.

Today in Romania the US is building the largest military base in Europe. In their last election, the party that opposed taking sides and wanted to be on friendly terms with both, has been "mysteriously" brought down and the politicians and even their supporters who voted for them, are being rounded up and jailed. Sound vaguely familiar?

Politics, diplomacy and finance of The West and its "oligarchs", has replaced individual governance of each independent nation. The EU is being openly challenged by member states. Nationalistic political parties keep gaining the most votes in elections and all other parties, regardless of their relations with each other, are forced to unite to form majorities in order to maintain this "status quo". But its failing and we all see it. Everyone knows it. The last tactic to maintain this control?

All out war.

And personally...I want no part in it.!

[User]

3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Have you ever asked yourself WHY the USA and Western Nations despise Russia so much?

No, because I pay attention to current events, history, and politics. 

4 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

All out war.

And personally...I want no part in it.!

Yet again, ignoring all your conspiratorial BS before this, Russia started this war. Russia can end this war today, this very moment, if they desire. 

Not only do you want this, You defend Russia, you cheer them on, you make excuses for their war, you justify their war. 

 

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, User said:

No, because I pay attention to current events, history, and politics. 

Yet again, ignoring all your conspiratorial BS before this, Russia started this war. Russia can end this war today, this very moment, if they desire. 

Not only do you want this, You defend Russia, you cheer them on, you make excuses for their war, you justify their war. 

 

I feel sorry for you. But hey...at least your ignorance and lack of any real principals is not uncommon.

So ya...you got that going for ya.

[User]

1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

I feel sorry for you. But hey...at least your ignorance and lack of any real principals is not uncommon.

So ya...you got that going for ya.

No need to feel sorry for me. That doesn't do anything to change your dishonest arguments here. Its just usually the last refuge for folks like you to have to engage in personal attacks when you realize you can't put forth a good argument or an honest one. 

[Nationalist]

10 minutes ago, User said:

No need to feel sorry for me. That doesn't do anything to change your dishonest arguments here. Its just usually the last refuge for folks like you to have to engage in personal attacks when you realize you can't put forth a good argument or an honest one. 

Lol...who's engaged in personal attacks? Please...you're flailing about now like all the common Libbies you argue with daily.

You claim my arguments are dishonest. Ok...refute them.

[User]

9 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Lol...who's engaged in personal attacks? Please...you're flailing about now like all the common Libbies you argue with daily.

You claim my arguments are dishonest. Ok...refute them.

I have, many times. 

 

[Nationalist]

2 minutes ago, User said:

I have, many times. 

 

Ok...so you can't.

Got it.

[User]

2 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Ok...so you can't.

Got it.

Lets start here. 

Who started this war? Who can end this war today if they wanted to?

 

 

Edited December 20, 2024 by User

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, User said:

Lets start here. 

Who started this war? Who can end this war today if they wanted to?

 

 

Russia formally started it and it appears they're going to end it too. Probably with Trump's help.

Does that bother you?

[User]

1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

Russia formally started it and it appears they're going to end it too. Probably with Trump's help.

Does that bother you?

Yes, it bothers me that Russia started this war. Does that bother you?

Russia can end this war today. They don't need Trump's help. 

[Nationalist]

Just now, User said:

Yes, it bothers me that Russia started this war. Does that bother you?

Russia can end this war today. They don't need Trump's help. 

Of course it bothers me. The whole sh1t-show bothers me.

So you would propose what? That Russia should just leave and give up the lands they've won?

Please...let's deal with reality...mkaaayyy?

[User]

28 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Of course it bothers me. The whole sh1t-show bothers me.

So you would propose what? That Russia should just leave and give up the lands they've won?

Please...let's deal with reality...mkaaayyy?

Look at you. You are using terms like "won" here. Russia did not win anything. They started this war and, through violence and much death and destruction (which you claim to decry), conquered territory... but here I thought you were interested in how awful things were and wanting this to end. 

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, User said:

Look at you. You are using terms like "won" here. Russia did not win anything. They started this war and, through violence and much death and destruction (which you claim to decry), conquered territory... but here I thought you were interested in how awful things were and wanting this to end. 

In "conquering" that land...have they not "won" it? How many hairs do you figure you can split in one day?

Yes! I want this to end. I believe Trump will end it. By all accounts, it looks like he's going to force Zelinsky to accept the loss of the Donbas region and Crimea.

[User]

4 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

In "conquering" that land...have they not "won" it? How many hairs do you figure you can split in one day?

Well, if you did not have a long pattern of pushing Russian propaganda in previous discussions, justifying their war, and other such language outright cheering them on or close enough to it... sure, you would get the benefit of the doubt. 

Using "won" is just a long pattern of your word choice dealing with how you talk about Russia.
 

5 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Yes! I want this to end. I believe Trump will end it. By all accounts, it looks like he's going to force Zelinsky to accept the loss of the Donbas region and Crimea.

Yeah, we have crossed this bridge many times. The only way you have wanted to end this war all favor Russia. There are many ways this war can end. 

[Nationalist]

9 minutes ago, User said:

Well, if you did not have a long pattern of pushing Russian propaganda in previous discussions, justifying their war, and other such language outright cheering them on or close enough to it... sure, you would get the benefit of the doubt. 

Using "won" is just a long pattern of your word choice dealing with how you talk about Russia.
 

Yeah, we have crossed this bridge many times. The only way you have wanted to end this war all favor Russia. There are many ways this war can end. 

Do you even read my posts?

I DEAL IN REALITY! I do not engage in warped ideas. The REALITY is that as it stands, Ukraine has lost a chunk of land and have no reason to hand it back.

Now...were Brandon or Trump decide to escalate to nuclear...or even conventional bombing of say...Moscow...do you think Russia would cave? Or do you think it's more likely we can all kiss our a55es goodbye?

Reality User. It can be a real biatch but...

It is what it is.

Edited December 20, 2024 by Nationalist

[User]

23 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Do you even read my posts?

I DEAL IN REALITY! I do not engage in warped ideas. The REALITY is that as it stands, Ukraine has lost a chunk of land and have no reason to hand it back.

Ah yes... here we go again. 

So, Ukraine gets to keep the Russian land they have?

25 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Now...were Brandon or Trump decide to escalate to nuclear...or even conventional bombing of say...Moscow...do you think Russia would cave? Or do you think it's more likely we can all kiss our a55es goodbye?

It is war. Russia continues to escalate. Do you only care about escalation when that means it is against Russia?

 

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, User said:

Ah yes... here we go again. 

So, Ukraine gets to keep the Russian land they have?

It is war. Russia continues to escalate. Do you only care about escalation when that means it is against Russia?

 

Perhaps. Let's see what the deal is.

No I care about the increased potential for my family to be melted.

[User]

9 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Perhaps. Let's see what the deal is.

Perhaps? Interesting how you are so clear with Russia has WON!!!! the land they have and by goodness, they get to keep it. 

When it is Ukraine... now all of a sudden it is "perhaps"
 

10 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

No I care about the increased potential for my family to be melted.

So, back to this lame argument again. 

Your position is that Russia gets to invade who ever they want, whenever they want, and none of us can ever fight back because they might nuke us. 

About right?

 

[Nationalist]

3 minutes ago, User said:

Perhaps? Interesting how you are so clear with Russia has WON!!!! the land they have and by goodness, they get to keep it. 

When it is Ukraine... now all of a sudden it is "perhaps"
 

So, back to this lame argument again. 

Your position is that Russia gets to invade who ever they want, whenever they want, and none of us can ever fight back because they might nuke us. 

About right?

 

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/11/24/ukraine-has-reportedly-lost-40-of-land-it-had-seized-in-russias-kursk-region

Does it look to you like Russia sees themselves losing the Kursk region?

I never said they get to invade anyone. Again...let's try to stick to reality.

[User]

4 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Does it look to you like Russia sees themselves losing the Kursk region?

I never said they get to invade anyone. Again...let's try to stick to reality.

Ukraine invaded the Kursk region over 6 months ago, and you guys were criticizing it from day one as if it were a failure. 

Seems they have been hanging on for a while now, and won't be losing it all by the time Trump takes office... 

Your argument says they get to invade anyone.

[eyeball]

On 12/19/2024 at 10:06 AM, Nationalist said:

Is this what you all want?

Better dead then the godawful black future you guys are willing to embrace.

A right-wing world ruled by dictators for the benefit of oligarchs? Been there done that and patience my ass...

[User]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Been there done that and patience my ass...

And yet you are all for leftist authoritarianism... 

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, User said:

Ukraine invaded the Kursk region over 6 months ago, and you guys were criticizing it from day one as if it were a failure. 

Seems they have been hanging on for a while now, and won't be losing it all by the time Trump takes office... 

Your argument says they get to invade anyone.

I said invading Kursk was a poor decision because they moved forces from the main battle line to do it. That's allowed Russia to move west quicker and kill off a lot of troops that Ukraine can't afford. 

My argument says nothing of the sort.

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Better dead then the godawful black future you guys are willing to embrace.

A right-wing world ruled by dictators for the benefit of oligarchs? Been there done that and patience my ass...

What "godawful black future"?

You sure do engage in a lot o' silliness.

[User]

10 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

I said invading Kursk was a poor decision because they moved forces from the main battle line to do it. That's allowed Russia to move west quicker and kill off a lot of troops that Ukraine can't afford. 

My argument says nothing of the sort.

Except... it has cost Russia more men and equipment to move them to Kursk to try to recapture it now... 

Either way, the point remains, Ukraine has "won" Russian territory and you certainly are not using the same flowery language for them or as enthusiastic about their getting to keep it. 

Yes, your argument is that we can't dare escalate the war with Russia by stopping their invasion with more support... or they will nuke us. 

So... you think Russia gets to invade whomever they want, whenever they want... because they might use nukes.