Canadians to pay even more for groceries as industry-wide price freeze ends

[CdnFox]

https://nationalpost.com/news/food-blackout-period-prices

Each year, from late October to early February, the Canadian grocery industry engages in something known as the blackout period. During this time prices for specific national and private brand products are frozen.

During this period, suppliers demand more money for products to keep up with inflation, global supply chain issues, energy costs and international conflicts. When the price freeze ends, the backlog of price increase requests by suppliers catches up.

In a virtual conference, Metro CEO Eric La Flèche discussed the price freeze, pricing demands from suppliers and how consumers should expect to see price increases in February.

“The popular thing to do is to point fingers at grocers. I think it’s the wrong target… With grocers, if you look at gross margins, they’ve been the same for the last five years. In fact, if you look at yesterday’s call with Metro, (their) gross margins actually went down last year by 2.3 per cent,” Charlebois said. “People can accuse grocers as often as they want, but the evidence is not there at all.

[CdnFox]

Might have been nice to print this article  a week ago while it was still january   Hope everyone filled their freezers.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

The popular thing to do is to point fingers at grocers.

The smart thing to do, is to explore the root of what that is causing these dramatic price increases and fixing it.

Logic. Common sense. A dying breed of people.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

The smart thing to do, is to explore the root of what that is causing these dramatic price increases and fixing it.

Logic. Common sense. A dying breed of people.

Well i think a big part of the root cause was touched on in the article - the demand drives up prices. That's pretty obvious. If you're bringing a million new mouths to feed every year into canada then that's going to put a lot of pressure on demand.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

If you're bringing a million new mouths to feed every year into canada then that's going to put a lot of pressure on demand.

Adding thousands more a month to deliver those foods, is pouring fuel into the fire. No pun intended.

[ExFlyer]

As an importer of food, Canadians are at the mercy of supply, transport, handling, and of course, taxes.

Grocery stores are a for profit business too.

Food prices are up globally, we are not exempt.

[CdnFox]

23 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

As an importer of food, Canadians are at the mercy of supply, transport, handling, and of course, taxes.

 

Our imported food has gone up the least.

Are you suggesting we import beef? We're shipping in a lot of chicken? Milk? Wheat? All these things are skyrocketing. Imports like bananas actually haven't been that bad.

Seventy percent of what we consume domestically is produced within Canada. And that seventy percent has skyrocketed

This is NOT a problem of being at the '"Mercy" of other countries.  This may come as a shock to you - but canada grows  food.  Sure we import some but potato chip prices and bananas have not been the biggest problem

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Our imported food has gone up the least.

Are you suggesting we import beef? We're shipping in a lot of chicken? Milk? Wheat? All these things are skyrocketing. Imports like bananas actually haven't been that bad.

Seventy percent of what we consume domestically is produced within Canada. And that seventy percent has skyrocketed

This is NOT a problem of being at the '"Mercy" of other countries.  This may come as a shock to you - but canada grows  food.  Sure we import some but potato chip prices and bananas have not been the biggest problem

BS.

We import almost all our food.

"In 2022, imports of beef amounted to approximately 187,670 metric tons in Canada, an increase from around 185,670 metric tons the previous year."  https://www.statista.com/statistics/453428/beef-import-volume-canada/

We do not grow anything after September besides a few fruits. From September till July /August of the following year almost all our foods are imported. "it is estimated that nationally about 75% of fresh vegetables are imported and half of that from the US, with 37% of fresh fruit also imported from the US (Hui, 2022)."

"Some 90% of leafy greens are imported, most of that from the US with California being the prime production state (87% of California lettuce exports are to Canada, Norman 2023), now often subject to disruption from weather and pests (Hui, 2023)."https://foodpolicyforcanada.info.yorku.ca/backgrounder/problems/reliance-on-exports/

"Canada's self-sufficiency is complex; we demonstrate self-reliance in our dairy, meat, and grain production. We are mostly consuming our homemade food and can export the surplus. However, we need to catch up with our fresh produce output. For example, we import around 75% of fresh vegetables."  https://opinionsinternational.com/2023/02/07/the-question-of-canadas-food-self-sufficiency/

"Canadian fresh and frozen fruit imports have continuously increased over the last two decades. Canada imported $6.9 billion of fresh and frozen fruit in 2021, which is up 3.1% year-over-year and represents an increase of 13.3% over the last five years."

https://foodpolicyforcanada.info.yorku.ca/backgrounder/problems/reliance-on-exports/

 

So,yes, we are a the mercy of other countries and their prices and price increases.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2024 by ExFlyer

[impartialobserver]

2 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Canada's self-sufficiency is complex; we demonstrate self-reliance in our dairy, meat, and grain production. We are mostly consuming our homemade food and can export the surplus. However, we need to catch up with our fresh produce output. For example, we import around 75% of fresh vegetables.

My guess is that it is quite the task to grow oranges, limes, and lemons in northern Ontario and Quebec without use of a greenhouse. 

[ExFlyer]

3 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

My guess is that it is quite the task to grow oranges, limes, and lemons in northern Ontario and Quebec without use of a greenhouse. 

My point exactly....so, we import.

But it is also difficult to grow vegetables to supply our needs in any part of Canada from September to July/August.

All I am saying is that our grocery prices, particularly vegetables is beyond the control of our retailers. We even stopped processing much of what we eat so we import processed foods as well.

Edited February 2, 2024 by ExFlyer

[impartialobserver]

Just now, ExFlyer said:

My point exactly....so, we import.

But it is also difficult to grow vegetables to supply our needs in any part of Canada from September to July/August.

This is why California's central valley, the inland empire (directly east of San Diego), and extreme western Arizona are such hotbeds for agriculture. Their problem is dwindling water supplies in the face of unprecedented population growth in the SW. 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Well i think a big part of the root cause was touched on in the article - the demand drives up prices. That's pretty obvious. If you're bringing a million new mouths to feed every year into canada then that's going to put a lot of pressure on demand.

Even if we don't bring them in they still need to eat so the pressure on demand remains. That speaks to the more fundamental global issue of over-population not to mention the increasing difficulty in producing food in a world where ecosystems are being overwhelmed by population growth.

[herbie]

1 hour ago, impartialobserver said:

My guess is that it is quite the task to grow oranges, limes, and lemons in northern Ontario and Quebec without use of a greenhouse. 

And my opinion says the cost to buy and transport those oranges has nowhere near doubled in two years. $4 a lb? Add to that the major chain posted all over a massive sale or Mandarins 2 lb bag for $3.99 if you logged in online beforehand that didn't look like mandarins, didn't smell like mandarins, didn't peel, section or remotely taste like mandarins. Boxes of Twinkies that were $3.99 a month ago now smaller and $6.99. Continues to have unsold gluten free hot dog buns on the shelf for $34.50 a dozen.
Apples & pears from Chile, New Zealand... not because there are no local ones, even when there are - simply because the profit margin is much higher.

There are no blueberries in Abbotsford or Nova Scotia, there are no peaches from Kelowna, those $10 a cup raspberries have to be imported. Because the greenhouse ones cost $2 and those are 50c delivered.

We've all been conditioned to buy the excuses just like Big Oil's lame ones.

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

This is why California's central valley, the inland empire (directly east of San Diego), and extreme western Arizona are such hotbeds for agriculture. Their problem is dwindling water supplies in the face of unprecedented population growth in the SW. 

The point is that we import the agriculture we need.

The prices that we are paying are what the growers, processors, importers, transporters and wholesalers have to pay and it is not just the retailers fault for high prices, like some seem to think or imply.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

BS.

We import almost all our food.

"In 2022, imports of beef amounted to approximately 187,670 metric tons in Canada, an increase from around 185,670 metric tons the previous year."  https://www.statista.com/statistics/453428/beef-import-volume-canada/

 

You have to be a little thick to post a number like that without a reference number to measure it by. Without knowing how much we consume that number is meaningless.

And you should be tired enough of looking like a drooling fool to think i didn't look up the figure i quoted before hand and do a little more of your own research first.  You'd think you'd learn.

Here.

https://foodpolicyforcanada.info.yorku.ca/backgrounder/problems/reliance-on-exports/

Everything i said is true.  Sure - we import 30 percent of our food. And we export half of what we grow or produce.  But most of our food is produced here.

Don't waste my time with crap in the future.  Take the time to look it up yourself.

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

And my opinion says the cost to buy and transport those oranges has nowhere near doubled in two years. $4 a lb? Add to that the major chain posted all over a massive sale or Mandarins 2 lb bag for $3.99 if you logged in online beforehand that didn't look like mandarins, didn't smell like mandarins, didn't peel, section or remotely taste like mandarins. Boxes of Twinkies that were $3.99 a month ago now smaller and $6.99. Continues to have unsold gluten free hot dog buns on the shelf for $34.50 a dozen.
Apples & pears from Chile, New Zealand... not because there are no local ones, even when there are - simply because the profit margin is much higher.

There are no blueberries in Abbotsford or Nova Scotia, there are no peaches from Kelowna, those $10 a cup raspberries have to be imported. Because the greenhouse ones cost $2 and those are 50c delivered.

We've all been conditioned to buy the excuses just like Big Oil's lame ones.

Fact is the cost has doubled as a result of the entire supply chain, from the growers to the labour to the processors to the suppliers, to the wholesalers etc.

The entire chain has increased it's costs and it is all passed on to you, the consumer. No one singular sector of the supply chain can be blamed but all sectors have incurred higher costs.

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, ExFlyer said:

The point is that we import the agriculture we need.

 

THe point is you're largely incorrect, which often turns out to be the case.

70 percent of what we consume comes from Canada and that is the stuff that's experiencing the largest increases.  Again - how much milk and poultry and eggs do you you think comes from the states? Yet it's going up like crazy.

In fact - our dollar improved over the us dollar for most of 2023 and that LOWERS the cost of imported foods as a rule. 

What has killed us is "supply chain" issues in canada -rising costs to produce and labour shortages.

 

[impartialobserver]

23 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

The point is that we import the agriculture we need.

The prices that we are paying are what the growers, processors, importers, transporters and wholesalers have to pay and it is not just the retailers fault for high prices, like some seem to think or imply.

so if i read this correctly.. the retailers in Canada are not at fault. It is rising input prices. The inputs being the produce that you folks import from elsewhere. My guess is that Canada imports quite a bit due to challenging climate and being somewhat affluent. 

[herbie]

Milk, honey, eggs, meat, potatoes, wheat, bread, are NOT imported. Much produce is also local.Obviously oranges and bananas are not, but amazingly bananas are cheap as dirt.
And a grocery bag from 1950 is a bullshit way of calculating food prices and inflation, as that stuff is almost all local and no longer the major content shoppers load up with.

And as I've pointed out often, if you have the same markup (the excuse the grocers always brag about), then if your cost doubles, so does your profit in real money. 5% of $2 is 10c, 5% of $1 is 5c. That's a lot of record their profits ! You make twice as much for the same case of beans.

I'm single so I can't buy fruit and produce  in bulk. If I buy 3 bananas, one will go bad before I eat it, so I shop pretty much every other day. And I SEE prices go up week after week. Look at the tiny boxes of cookies that are $5-$6 now.

My sister and I joke - Oh Look! Ten cent candy bars are on sale for only $1.89 this week at SaveOn...

 

Edited February 2, 2024 by herbie

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

so if i read this correctly.. the retailers in Canada are not at fault. It is rising input prices. The inputs being the produce that you folks import from elsewhere. My guess is that Canada imports quite a bit due to challenging climate and being somewhat affluent. 

We import 30 percent of our food.  Although it's only that high because we export 50 percent of what we grow.  There's a complex reason for that and some have said we should change that but that's where we are.

The majority of our increases come from internal supply issues and labour shortages as well as strain on supply.  We're adding an insane number of people to our population each year right now and production doesn't just change overnight so it creates supply issues and that ups costs.

Our imports actually did a bit better than our local stuff inflation wise last year. The dollar got a little stronger and that helps

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Milk, honey, eggs, meat, potatoes, wheat, bread, are NOT imported. Much produce is also local.Obviously oranges and bananas are not, but amazingly bananas are cheap as dirt.
And a grocery bag from 1950 is a bullshit way of calculating food prices and inflation, as that stuff is almost all local and no longer the major content shoppers load up with.

And as I've pointed out often, if you have the same markup (the excuse the grocers always brag about), then if your cost doubles, so does your profit in real money. 5% of $2 is 10c, 5% of $1 is 5c. That's a lot of record their profits ! You make twice as much for the same case of beans.

 

That's all true - but theres the other factor: population.

If you sell everyone in canada and apple each year and you make 1 dollar per apple,  if you bring in 1 million more people this year you earn 1 million dollars more even if the price and profit on apples doesn't change.

They're saying the average person spends aobut 4 thousand a year on groceries (assuming some are children etc) and so thats 4 billion in additional sales per year given our current immigration rate.

If the grocers make a 6 percent profit (i believe that's what they claim) then that's an extra 240 million in profits this year - ABOVE last yaers.

 

Put those two things together and their 'record profits' seem pretty reasonable.

[James Bilodeau]

Hello All. Hope my fellow Canadians are well. 

 I can't say I understand why the system is the way it is. Did it just evolve that way or did some folks actually sit down and devise all these things? 

So, just want to ask: If a government taxes the people on everything including cow farts, how can that not affect the system. 

 It seems in all this, that whole side is missing. Tax, tax, tax and more tax will surely raise prices all through they system.

 From supply chain to consumer and all stops in between. 

  

[impartialobserver]

15 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

We import 30 percent of our food.  Although it's only that high because we export 50 percent of what we grow.  There's a complex reason for that and some have said we should change that but that's where we are.

The majority of our increases come from internal supply issues and labour shortages as well as strain on supply.  We're adding an insane number of people to our population each year right now and production doesn't just change overnight so it creates supply issues and that ups costs.

Our imports actually did a bit better than our local stuff inflation wise last year. The dollar got a little stronger and that helps

Good stuff. Will be interesting to see prices when I visit Edmonton in August 2024. 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, impartialobserver said:

Good stuff. Will be interesting to see prices when I visit Edmonton in August 2024. 

Well we've got this really weird price freeze thing that happens between november and february 1 for groceries in canada, so that just ended. we'll see what happens to prices this year, maybe it won't be so bad this time.

[herbie]

Tying food inflation to immigration is a bit of a stretch.