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Were the church fathers Catholic?


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1 hour ago, blackbird said:

You were mistaken

My mistake then.  
 

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

It is information in reply to a comment.

Would you read 3 loooong posts of information on atheism and how it’s the best thing since sliced bread if I posted it here?

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

You have a history of being a s__t disturber on here.

Im here to discuss ideas.  Not to read “information” copied from other websites. 

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Just now, TreeBeard said:

Would you read 3 loooong posts of information on atheism and how it’s the best thing since sliced bread if I posted it here?

 Maybe.  If it is relevant to the discussion, I might.  My posts were not very long and I also added a lot of my own information to one of the posts.  Takes maybe a couple of minutes to read.  Don't forget, we are here also to learn something, not just throw short sound bites back and forth. 

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9 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Maybe

Why do I doubt this?  I don’t read the tripe you copy/paste, but when you actually discuss a topic, I enjoy your posts and the discussion.  

 

10 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Don't forget, we are here also to learn something, not just throw short sound bites back and forth. 


If I wanted to learn what Christian apologists that beg for money and sell snake oil on these websites think, I would use Google.   I come here to see what actual people think.  

 

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29 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Really?  I thought you come here to stir the pot.  Am I wrong?

If that means disagree with people, then yes. 
 

Do you only like discussion with people who agree with you?  That would explain your cut/paste posts.  You don’t want to discuss with people who have a different view, you want to give them “information”.  

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5 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Im here to discuss ideas.  Not to read “information” copied from other websites.

Sadly that is the case.  You are not really interested in learning anything at all.

 I posted an article earlier on the history of where the Catholic church came from which gave a fair amount of detail.  Unfortunately, you would likely not read it and therefore would remain in ignorance.

However, I posted it anyway to answer the misinformation that was posted about the Catholic church coming from Jesus Christ.  

I doubt you will find any poster on here who has that kind of information at the top of his head.

When there are comments about things that require more depth than a one line reply, then it makes sense to quote from an authoritative source.  Since I know how to get that kind of information, why not post it.  

 

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14 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

 You don’t want to discuss with people who have a different view, you want to give them “information”.  

What is that supposed to mean?  Of course I read people's postings which have a different view.  I do the same as you and everyone else.  If I disagree, I say so but I try to give an explanation.  That often includes quoting an article which gives the reasons why I disagree and what the correct belief is on a topic?  Why are you opposed to giving people knowledge?  I don't understand your logic.

You accuse me of wanting to give them "information".  Really?  Why are you opposed to "information" or knowledge.  Isn't knowledge what makes better people and a better world?  Why would you oppose other people having more knowledge?

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On 1/25/2024 at 5:04 PM, Yakuda said:

That's not what Jesus said. 

That not what Jesus said. 

Jesus is clear andi. John 6:61 Jesus asks after saying 3 times to eat his flesh, "Does this shock you?" Why should they be shocked if he meant "spiritual consumption"? 

IDK, but it is really stupid to think Jesus would preach cannibalism.

His way of thinking is what he was selling, not body parts.

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22 hours ago, French Patriot said:

IDK, but it is really stupid to think Jesus would preach cannibalism.

His way of thinking is what he was selling, not body parts.

But it isn't. This has been pointed out to you people thousands of times. In Johns gospel Jesus says 3 times eat my flesh and drink my blood. Then John 6: 61 says "Aware of the complaints of his disciples, Jesus said to them, "Does this shock you?""

Why would they be shocked if Jesus wasn't speaking literally? 

I don't blame you so much as you have been sold a pile of lies but once the truth has been revealed to you and you still reject it, then it's all on you. 

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31 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

But it isn't. This has been pointed out to you people thousands of times. In Johns gospel Jesus says 3 times eat my flesh and drink my blood. Then John 6: 61 says "Aware of the complaints of his disciples, Jesus said to them, "Does this shock you?""

Why would they be shocked if Jesus wasn't speaking literally? 

I don't blame you so much as you have been sold a pile of lies but once the truth has been revealed to you and you still reject it, then it's all on you. 

Ok. Jesus ate babies.

Done here.

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1 hour ago, French Patriot said:

Ok. Jesus ate babies.

Done here.

No he didn't eat babies. Making asinine comments like that just makes you look stupid. Jesus said what he said and just like some of the people who heard him, you don't want to listen to what he said either. 

I'd run away too if I was you. 

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6 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

No he didn't eat babies. Making asinine comments like that just makes you look stupid. Jesus said what he said and just like some of the people who heard him, you don't want to listen to what he said either. 

I'd run away too if I was you. 

The Bible refutes your interpretation which claims you are eating the literal body and blood of Christ.  You need to open your mind to the Bible and Holy Spirit instead of believing it just because Mother church says so. 

"

Transubstantiation refuted by John 6:63

 
“The whole Christ is truly present, body, blood, soul, and divinity, under the appearances of bread and wine—the glorified Christ who rose from the dead after dying for our sins. This is what the Church means when she speaks of the “Real Presence” of Christ in the Eucharist.” [1]
 
If a person wants to believe in transubstantiation, they have no choice but to IGNORE John 6:63…
 
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
Why Transubstantiation Is Not True And Not Necessary - Coming In The Clouds

It says clearly in Scripture it is the "spirit that quickeneth;   the flesh profiteth nothing"  John 6:63

Jesus was clearly talking about a spiritual eating and drinking, not physically or literally. 

lf you are worshiping a piece of bread or the host, that is a form of idolatry because Jesus is not physically in the bread.

It would also be a form of cannibalism if you ate him literally.

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6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The Bible refutes your interpretation which claims you are eating the literal body and blood of Christ.  You need to open your mind to the Bible and Holy Spirit instead of believing it just because Mother church says so. 

"

Transubstantiation refuted by John 6:63

 
“The whole Christ is truly present, body, blood, soul, and divinity, under the appearances of bread and wine—the glorified Christ who rose from the dead after dying for our sins. This is what the Church means when she speaks of the “Real Presence” of Christ in the Eucharist.” [1]
 
If a person wants to believe in transubstantiation, they have no choice but to IGNORE John 6:63…
 
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
Why Transubstantiation Is Not True And Not Necessary - Coming In The Clouds

It says clearly in Scripture it is the "spirit that quickeneth;   the flesh profiteth nothing"  John 6:63

Jesus was clearly talking about a spiritual eating and drinking, not physically or literally. 

lf you are worshiping a piece of bread or the host, that is a form of idolatry because Jesus is not physically in the bread.

It would also be a form of cannibalism if you ate him literally.

If Jesus was speaking figuratively why would he ask "Does this shock you?" Answer the question. You can abuse Scripture if you like but him not impressed with you thus far. 

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1 hour ago, Yakuda said:

If Jesus was speaking figuratively why would he ask "Does this shock you?" Answer the question. You can abuse Scripture if you like but him not impressed with you thus far. 

He said that simply because they could not understand the whole concept of a close spiritual relationship with Jesus Christ.  He was talking about a spiritual union or relationship.  He used the terms eating and drinking as metaphorical or figurative terms to show a spiritual relationship.  But they could not understand it.

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9 minutes ago, blackbird said:

He said that simply because they could not understand the whole concept of a close spiritual relationship with Jesus Christ.  He was talking about a spiritual union or relationship.  He used the terms eating and drinking as metaphorical or figurative terms to show a spiritual relationship.  But they could not understand it.

First the question makes no sense if he was speaking "spiritual union or relationship" since that isn't shocking. Next he did use those terms figuratively but for the 1000th time he changed from figurative to literal. You've been told this but deny it. John 6:48 "I am the bread of life". That's figurative as he is not bread.

But then verse 51, "I am the living bread come down from heaven (figurative again) Whoever eats this bread (figurative) will live forever; and the bread (figurative) that i will give is my flesh (literal) for the life of the world". 

Then three times following that statement in verses 51, 54 and 55 he mentions his flesh the word bread appears no where in those verses. Then he asks if they are shocked. There is no reason to be shocked if it's figurative. The only way to miss this is to be stupid, blind or a protestant. 

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22 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

First the question makes no sense if he was speaking "spiritual union or relationship" since that isn't shocking. Next he did use those terms figuratively but for the 1000th time he changed from figurative to literal. You've been told this but deny it. John 6:48 "I am the bread of life". That's figurative as he is not bread.

But then verse 51, "I am the living bread come down from heaven (figurative again) Whoever eats this bread (figurative) will live forever; and the bread (figurative) that i will give is my flesh (literal) for the life of the world". 

Then three times following that statement in verses 51, 54 and 55 he mentions his flesh the word bread appears no where in those verses. Then he asks if they are shocked. There is no reason to be shocked if it's figurative. The only way to miss this is to be stupid, blind or a protestant. 

" 47  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48  I am that bread of life. 49  Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50  This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51  I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. " John 6:47-51

This begins by saying he that believeth on me hath everlasting life.  That emphasizes belief or faith.

Then he uses a metaphor saying I am that bread of life.  So by believing in him, you are receiving that bread of life.

Verse 50 says the same thing, using figurative language.  If you eat of this bread, that is, believe in Jesus, you shall live forever.

Now verse 51, Jesus says the bread that he will give is his flesh, which he will give for the life of the world.  How does he give his flesh for the life of the world?  The answer is on the cross.  He shed his blood and died for the sins of the world.  That is how he gave his flesh.

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6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

" 47  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48  I am that bread of life. 49  Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50  This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51  I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. " John 6:47-51

This begins by saying he that believeth on me hath everlasting life.  That emphasizes belief or faith.

Then he uses a metaphor saying I am that bread of life.  So by believing in him, you are receiving that bread of life.

Verse 50 says the same thing, using figurative language.  If you eat of this bread, that is, believe in Jesus, you shall live forever.

Now verse 51, Jesus says the bread that he will give is his flesh, which he will give for the life of the world.  How does he give his flesh for the life of the world?  The answer is on the cross.  He shed his blood and died for the sins of the world.  That is how he gave his flesh.

Yes you must believe Jesus when he says 3 TIMES eat my flesh. 

It doesnt say "his" flesh. Why are you lying?

Why would anyone be shocked by a figurative message to "eat my flesh"? 

I've also shown you that then early church believed Jesus when he said it was his body. I have a choice to believe Jesus or you a "discipline" of a strip mall church pastor. It's an easy choice. 

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39 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

First the question makes no sense if he was speaking "spiritual union or relationship" since that isn't shocking.

You have Jesus talking to your carnal/physical body, while Jesus is clear that he is talking to your spirit. He wants us to eat of his words and drink of his spirit. Nothing carnal. Think of the sop and it's meaning. You can do this buddy. You are not stupid.

 

John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

 

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Go inside yourdelf to find the only God you can ever really know.

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3 minutes ago, French Patriot said:

You have Jesus talking to your carnal/physical body, while Jesus is clear that he is talking to your spirit. He wants us to eat of his words and drink of his spirit. Nothing carnal. Think of the sop and it's meaning. You can do this buddy. You are not stupid.

 

John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

 

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Go inside yourdelf to find the only God you can ever really know.

He is talking to both. If Jesus was speaking only spiritually the question in V 61 makes absolutely no sense in the context of the discussion. The same is true for V 67. Notice john 6:66 says "After this many of his disciples turned away and no longer remained with him." That's you the message is too shocking for you. You have decided Jesus couldn't have meant what he said. 

THE flesh profits nothing it doesnt say HIS flesh profits nothing. That's a C- attempt. 

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On 1/27/2024 at 11:30 PM, blackbird said:

Sadly that is the case.  You are not really interested in learning anything at all.

 I posted an article earlier on the history of where the Catholic church came from which gave a fair amount of detail.  Unfortunately, you would likely not read it and therefore would remain in ignorance.

However, I posted it anyway to answer the misinformation that was posted about the Catholic church coming from Jesus Christ.  

I doubt you will find any poster on here who has that kind of information at the top of his head.

When there are comments about things that require more depth than a one line reply, then it makes sense to quote from an authoritative source.  Since I know how to get that kind of information, why not post it.  

 

Nothing you lost about the catholic church is accurate. You're a parrot. You have no intent to listen only to chirp. You can't beging to fathom something that questions your programming. 

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21 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

He is talking to both. If Jesus was speaking only spiritually the question in V 61 makes absolutely no sense in the context of the discussion.

So because you cannot fathom something, you prefer to call Jesus' quoted words a lie and Jesus a liar.

Ok.

Great apologetics and debate strategy. Not.

Get your single eye in gear, and try to have a bit more faith in the real teachings of the way more Gnostic Jesus.

He is a lot better than the genocidal homophobe one.

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5 minutes ago, French Patriot said:

So because you cannot fathom something, you prefer to call Jesus' quoted words a lie and Jesus a liar.

Ok.

Great apologetics and debate strategy. Not.

Get your single eye in gear, and try to have a bit more faith in the real teachings of the way more Gnostic Jesus.

He is a lot better than the genocidal homophobe one.

I just take Jesus at his word. The people in that description couldn't handle what Jesus said. That's you not me. 

4 minutes ago, French Patriot said:

Kettle to pot, and from a brain dead supernatural believer, who adores a genocidal and homophobic God.

Wow. Double Wow.

Again I just take Jesus at his word. That REALLY seems to bother you. 

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