Peace in Gaza! Show us the Borders!

[Rebound]

As we witness yet another Arab-Israeli war, I ask this simple question to the supporters of Palestine: Can you show us the borders? 

Can you show us a map with border lines which the Palestinian people will peacefully accept?

Because, you see… that part is always missing! The Palestinian leadership does not have a published map which they will accept. Instead, what we hear is “From the River to the Sea!,” and THAT means from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea… in other words, all of Israel. This is why the war never, ever ends: The Palestinians, particularly Hamas and Hezbollah, do not accept any borders less than the entirety of Israel.

Now, you may think, “Gee, isn’t it awfully racist of those Israelis to refuse one single, unified nation?”  Fair question. The answer is, No. The Israelis will never accept a single, unified nation because Muslim majority nations have all expelled Jews. The list is enormous: Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Yemen, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Iran Iraq and Afghanistan have all expelled their Jewish populations. Knowing that, you can surely understand that the Jews of Israel would never accept a unified, Muslim majority rule, because it would mean their expulsion. Most of Israel’s Jewish population are refugees or their descendants. Not white, colonial settlers, but dark complexioned Sephardic Jews of Northern Africa and the Middle East, along with Jews who were kicked out of Europe and Russia. They have nowhere else to go.

Everybody wants peace. The question is whether there is any peace which is acceptable to the Palestinians. I believe that you will not find such a map anywhere, but let’s see…

[CdnFox]

At this point watching the lunacy unfold i'm thinking that if we're talking about what boundary would lead to peace you're going in the wrong direction. It's probably not a matter of which one is east or west but which one is 6 ft under.

[godzilla]

i'm sorry... where is the map that Israel is satisfied with?

[CdnFox]

56 minutes ago, godzilla said:

i'm sorry... where is the map that Israel is satisfied with?

It's noted as 'gaza' on most world maps.

Israel has entered into discussions more than once with that in mind but backed away when hamas became involved because hamas refused to acknowledge israel has a right to exist.

As one person said - if gaza lays down it's arms tomorrow, they can have a palestinian state.  If israel lays down it's arms tomorrow, it can have a second holocaust. 

You don't hear israelis screaming 'from the river to the sea'.

[Rebound]

11 hours ago, godzilla said:

i'm sorry... where is the map that Israel is satisfied with?

Israel withdrew from Gaza 100%.  They agreed to West Bank borders back when Clinton was President. 

[godzilla]

16 hours ago, Rebound said:

Israel withdrew from Gaza 100%.  They agreed to West Bank borders back when Clinton was President. 

are you talking about The Clinton Parameters?

this did indeed seem to get very close... its been 23 years though. all of these participants are gone. the Trump/Kushner peace plan was a joke.

this is a highly asymmetric conflict. Israel holds all the cards and can make this go away but they don't want it to go away because... they are in the drivers seat.

 

[CdnFox]

38 minutes ago, godzilla said:

are you talking about The Clinton Parameters?

this did indeed seem to get very close... its been 23 years though. all of these participants are gone. the Trump/Kushner peace plan was a joke.

this is a highly asymmetric conflict. Israel holds all the cards and can make this go away but they don't want it to go away because... they are in the drivers seat.

 

That's ridiculous.  First off hey can't make it 'go away' because the international community prevents non negotiated solutions (so far). And Gaza won't negotiate at all - they want israel gone.

The idea that israel doesn't want a solution because.... reasons i guess? ... is silly. They want their people to be safe and they want stability - fi they could permanently end this without slaughtering them all they would have

[Rebound]

9 hours ago, godzilla said:

are you talking about The Clinton Parameters?

this did indeed seem to get very close... its been 23 years though. all of these participants are gone. the Trump/Kushner peace plan was a joke.

this is a highly asymmetric conflict. Israel holds all the cards and can make this go away but they don't want it to go away because... they are in the drivers seat.

 

It is not an asymmetric conflict. The Palestinians and their Soviet-backed Arab cohorts fought wars in 1948, 1968, and 1972… and LOST. 
 

I think it’s pointless to get into the history, but there was war and the Palestinians lost the war. Germany lost WW II; you don’t whine about an “asymmetric conflict” between the U.S. and Germany because Germany lost.  
 

You should visit Israel and speak with Israelis. They have build a magnificent nation from nothing. The Palestinians have been suicide bombing and blowing up pizza parlors and school buses, and the Israelis are just plain sick of it.  Hamas got billions to help their people and they spent it on tunnels and weapons for a war they could not possibly win. 
 

You did not answer the fundamental question of this thread: What are the borders that the Palestinians will accept? I can tell you that the Hamas borders are “from the river to the sea,” which means that all the Jews must be killed or deported. From the river to the sea is all the land, and that’s their slogan and their foolish proxies in the US chant it thinking they’re going to create peace by giving all the land to terrorists. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Rebound

[godzilla]

yeah well, i put this way.

we denounce Iran, the Islamic state (the religion is enshrined in their constitution). in Iran women are murdered for not wearing head scarfs. countless others are discriminated against because they are either not Islamic worshippers or don't worship enough.

Here in the west we feel its only moral that people have freedom of religion. separation of church and state. its against the law to discriminate based on religion.

and yet, Israel is building a state just like Iran. a Jewish state. one that discriminates against its population based on religion.

someone mentioned people losing ww2. the german people were not forcefully expelled from Germany to be replaced by another population. thats actually against the rules of the Geneva Conventions, which Israel constantly ignores.

its not difficult to sum up the history there. anytime a population looks at a map and decides to move en mass there and ignores the fact that people actually live there already... there is going to be trouble. no one in the area voted to have Palestine annexed for Jewish immigration at the UN in 1948, this was done by western powers.

[WestCanMan]

On 12/13/2023 at 7:59 AM, Rebound said:

Everybody wants peace.

The sad fact is the the muslim arabs don't actually want peace at all. They want every square inch of Israel to be under the rule of an islamic state, no less, like you touched on with your "river to the sea" comment. 

Until they get islamic rule in every inch of Israel, they're quite comfortable to witness the deaths of little muslim children in explosions or collapsed buildings. That has been the whole point of the refugee camps all along. 

There's no need for even 1 refugee camp. 15M or more people were settled when Pakistan was partitioned. Millions were settled in 2017 when islamic state was committing genocide in Syria. But for some reason 700,000 people have been living in refugee camps since 1948... Whatever. And it's more than 700K now, the population of the camps is always growing.

I promise you, those camps are only there to foment hatred against the Jews. Muslim children can be steeped in a very real, deep-seated hatred of the Jews from their first day on earth until their last, as long as those camps are there.

 

I honestly think it's just a matter of time until Israel is wiped out and the Jews are massacred. All it will take is for them to have 1 bad day on the battlefield and they will all be slaughtered like dogs.

It's like they're playing a game that they're really good at, and they're probably going to win every time for the next ten years or so, but if they lose once in the next hundred years, or the next thousand years, they all die. It's just a matter of who they take down with them. 

[godzilla]

its all very concerning... regular Israelis are pretty brainwashed to "kill all Arabs" as well.

Everyday Israelis Express Support for Genocide to Abby Martin

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, godzilla said:

its all very concerning... regular Israelis are pretty brainwashed to "kill all Arabs" as well.

Everyday Israelis Express Support for Genocide to Abby Martin

That's what always happens. When one side refuses to ever live in peace, the other side which may have been more moderate will soon sink to that same level and then only the destruction of one or the other will resolve things.

If you fight monsters too long, you become a monster yourself. And if you stare too long into the abysss, the abyss stares into you.

With its genocidal attitude, Palestinians and gaza specifically are laying the ground work for the day when they are wiped out and scattered to the winds.

Edited December 16, 2023 by CdnFox

[godzilla]

20 hours ago, CdnFox said:

That's what always happens. When one side refuses to ever live in peace, the other side which may have been more moderate will soon sink to that same level and then only the destruction of one or the other will resolve things.

If you fight monsters too long, you become a monster yourself. And if you stare too long into the abysss, the abyss stares into you.

With its genocidal attitude, Palestinians and gaza specifically are laying the ground work for the day when they are wiped out and scattered to the winds.

you are right that hate breeds hate.

you support Israeli genocide of the Palestinian people. "wiped out and scattered to the winds"... how biblical. i personally don't support genocide like you do. you are a hateful person who suffers from the cognitive distortion of black and white thinking. that children should perish in the name of protecting your egos mental model of the world. like so many.

but the fact is that Israeli Jews are the invading force. they've come from all over the world to invade. more and more come every year. they need more and more land and so they populate the West Bank. one day they will invade Jordan or some other neighbour like they did in 67. the genocide will go on even after all Palestinians are dead. all in the name of a racist discriminatory belief in god. their god. the only true god. sounds like Iran to me.

here is a great documentary about the history by Israeli Jewish scholars produced by DW Germany. it was made months before the Hamas attack.

Israel - Birth of a state

[Fluffypants]

9 minutes ago, godzilla said:

you are right that hate breeds hate.

you support Israeli genocide of the Palestinian people. "wiped out and scattered to the winds"... how biblical. i personally don't support genocide like you do. you are a hateful person who suffers from the cognitive distortion of black and white thinking. that children should perish in the name of protecting your egos mental model of the world. like so many.

but the fact is that Israeli Jews are the invading force. they've come from all over the world to invade. more and more come every year. they need more and more land and so they populate the West Bank. one day they will invade Jordan or some other neighbour like they did in 67. the genocide will go on even after all Palestinians are dead. all in the name of a racist discriminatory belief in god. their god. the only true god. sounds like Iran to me.

here is a great documentary about the history by Israeli Jewish scholars produced by DW Germany. it was made months before the Hamas attack.

Israel - Birth of a state

God I am so sick of hearing about the Israelis genocide of the Palestinians because they could wipe them out tomorrow if they wanted to, if their objective was genocide. If they are under constant threat of genocide then why is their population growing?

Israel has the weapons and the means to just bomb that whole area to hell and then pick off the survivors, shut down their borders and execute the remaining Muslims within their borders and boom done deal.

But they don't, they are being deliberate to their own detriment when trying to wipe out Hamas.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Fluffypants

[godzilla]

13 minutes ago, Fluffypants said:

God I am so sick of hearing about the Israelis genocide of the Palestinians because they could wipe them out tomorrow if they wanted to, if their objective was genocide. If they are under constant threat of genocide then why is their population growing?

Israel has the weapons and the means to just bomb that whole area to hell and then pick off the survivors, shut down their borders and execute the remaining Muslims within their borders and boom done deal.

But they don't, they are being deliberate to their own detriment when trying to wipe out Hamas.

they don't just do it because they are already in enough hot water with the international community for the current level of violence that the perpetrate. no, this is a multi generational plan cooked up a hundred years ago. the Jewish state! they murder Palestinians every day. its just that we don't hear about it because its just another day in the Israel when Arabs are being shot dead, or their homes are being bulldozed, or Israel is contravening one of the Geneva Conventions, or Palestinians are being enslaved as manual labour.

did you know that its completely legal for Israeli citizens to shoot dead Palestinian children for throwing rocks? Palestinians are shot dead everyday.

Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2023

Rocks that are getting thrown at the IDF bulldozing their homes?

Israeli demolition of Palestinian property

or simply evicting them from homes they've lived in for generations so that a Jewish family can just move in?

Israel: UN experts condemn forced eviction of east Jerusalem families

Israel wants all of the West Bank and Gaza for themselves. they are ensuring that Palestinians will never have a future on lands they've inhabited alongside Jews, Muslims and Christians for centuries.

International law and Israeli settlements

its illegal to raise the Palestinian flag! thousands of Palestinians are incarcerated without charge or trial for decades.

Palestinian prisoners in Israel

and yet... the horror of Oct 7th! the outrage! like... how could Hamas do such a thing!? the residents of Gaza were only under complete siege for 16 years!

Israel could stop all of this now. they could leave the West Bank, allow right of return to Israel for Palestinian refugees or compensate them for their land at market rates, create a two state solution with ease of access between Gaza and the West Bank and build infrastructure, schools and universities for the Palestinian people that the Palestinian people were prevented from doing for the past 50 years.

but thats to never going to happen! its too expensive. what Israel is doing now is working for them and is much cheaper. the slow genocide approach. chipping away day by day with the occasional mass asymmetric slaughter when events like Oct 7 happen.

[CdnFox]

43 minutes ago, godzilla said:

you are right that hate breeds hate.you support Israeli genocide of the Palestinian people. "wiped out and scattered to the winds"... how biblical.

I'd prefer a peaceful solution but without a willingness to live in peace by both sides and not just one, then unfortunately one side or another eventually loses.

That's not really genocide. That's just how war is. i know - people like you love using the word because it's nice and scary and evil and such. But it's not really accurate. War is about either taking over another or eliminating the threat the other poses. Genocide is about the desire to wipe out the people.  Israel desires to end the threat and if that requires wiping out the people so be it but if it doesn't then that's even better.  Gaza just wants to wipe  out the people and they don't care if they're a threat or not.  Which is why peace isn't an option.

So the only people interested in genocide is gaza. If gaza put down it's weapons today. there would be peace and two states.  If isreal put down it's weapons today there'd be a second holocaust.

And no - israel is not the invading force. Sorry.

Gaza chooses violence. Gaza chooses to make it a genocidal war. Gaza could easily avoid these things.  This war is on Gaza's head and if they get wiped out forcing it to continue then i guess that's what gaza has chose for it'self and good riddance to people who think like that.

 

[CdnFox]

8 minutes ago, godzilla said:

did you know that its completely legal for Israeli citizens to shoot dead Palestinian children for throwing rocks?

Then.... don't.... teach..... your......kids.....to....throw...... rocks.

Period.  Simple. Done.  If you do - if you let your kids know it's ok to go throw rocks knowing it's legal to shoot them if they throw rocks, then it is YOUR fault your kid is dead.

Which basically applies to the rest of that nonsense too.  Palestinians can make peace or can choose war. They choose war and they get their asses handed to them, they choose to throw rocks and get shot. this is 100 percent on them

[godzilla]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

Then.... don't.... teach..... your......kids.....to....throw...... rocks.

Period.  Simple. Done.  If you do - if you let your kids know it's ok to go throw rocks knowing it's legal to shoot them if they throw rocks, then it is YOUR fault your kid is dead.

Which basically applies to the rest of that nonsense too.  Palestinians can make peace or can choose war. They choose war and they get their asses handed to them, they choose to throw rocks and get shot. this is 100 percent on them

thats ridiculous.

hey Palestinians! just accept... just accept that you will live in poverty for the rest of your life because Israel controls your economic system. just accept when they come for the home that you live in or the orchard that your grandfather planted. just accept that any work you do get is manual labour at Jewish businesses and homes. just accept that you cannot leave where you are! just accept when they jail you without charge. just accept that you are lower than your occupiers!

and we in the west should just accept that too? we're not doing it in Ukraine and a hundred other places where the international community has stepped in and stopped the violence and murder of oppressors.

[Fluffypants]

17 minutes ago, godzilla said:

thats ridiculous.

hey Palestinians! just accept... just accept that you will live in poverty for the rest of your life because Israel controls your economic system. just accept when they come for the home that you live in or the orchard that your grandfather planted. just accept that any work you do get is manual labour at Jewish businesses and homes. just accept that you cannot leave where you are! just accept when they jail you without charge. just accept that you are lower than your occupiers!

and we in the west should just accept that too? we're not doing it in Ukraine and a hundred other places where the international community has stepped in and stopped the violence and murder of oppressors.

Israel wants nothing to do with the Palestinians, why don't you start asking why Jordan or Egypt won't take these poor oppressed Palestinians in.

The Arab countries love to cry about poor poor Palestinians but all they will give them is weapons to lob at Israel, they don't help them. See they are using the Palestinians as an excuse to wipe out Israel that is all, If the US wasn't supporting them the Iranians would start a whole new Holocaust. Palestinians let Hamas run the show and let them use them as human shields.

Of course I do love the fact that you liberals bend yourselves into pretzels to support people who would kill most of you in an instant. I bet if you went into Gaza you would get taken hostage within minutes, tortured and possibly killed for your trouble.

 

[CdnFox]

16 minutes ago, godzilla said:

thats ridiculous.

If you think it's rediculous to teach your kids not to throw rocks at people who would shoot them if they threw rocks - you need to get some very serious remedial logic courses under your belt

Why the hell are you teaching your kids to throw rocks at all for that matter? If' i'd gone around throwing rocks at cops as  a kid i'd have got a hell of a whupping. And look - i didn't get shot!

Quote

hey Palestinians! just accept... just accept that you will live in poverty for the rest of your life because Israel controls your economic system.

Or - Hey Palestinians!! Just accept!  Just accept that israel is going nowhere, and you're going to have to learn to live together. So drop the guns, work out a two state solution and beat the snot out of any of the traitors to your prosperity who say 'from the river to the sea".

Just accept that violence is what holds you back, and start looking for ways to prosper instead of having your homes destroyed every few years because you shoot rockets from their rooftops.

Just accept that the more you do that, the less israel will be interested in having anything to do with your lives.

And accept the fact that the reason you're poor and homeless at the moment is because you made some VERY.... STUPID.. CHOICES.  ANd make better ones.

21 minutes ago, godzilla said:

and we in the west should just accept that too?

Yup we should accept all those things in the west. If they choose violence, wipe them out.

22 minutes ago, godzilla said:

we're not doing it in Ukraine

Sure we are.  A violent aggressor who doesn't believe in Ukraine's right to exist attacked ukraine and we're giving them arms to fight back and end that threat.

 A violent aggressor who doesnt' believe israel should exist attacked israel and we're supporting their right ot fight back (doesn't look like they need any of our weapons tho).

There is only one side who can end this peacefully, and it's not isreal.

[godzilla]

 

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

If you think it's rediculous to teach your kids not to throw rocks at people who would shoot them if they threw rocks - you need to get some very serious remedial logic courses under your belt

Why the hell are you teaching your kids to throw rocks at all for that matter? If' i'd gone around throwing rocks at cops as  a kid i'd have got a hell of a whupping. And look - i didn't get shot!

Or - Hey Palestinians!! Just accept!  Just accept that israel is going nowhere, and you're going to have to learn to live together. So drop the guns, work out a two state solution and beat the snot out of any of the traitors to your prosperity who say 'from the river to the sea".

Just accept that violence is what holds you back, and start looking for ways to prosper instead of having your homes destroyed every few years because you shoot rockets from their rooftops.

Just accept that the more you do that, the less israel will be interested in having anything to do with your lives.

And accept the fact that the reason you're poor and homeless at the moment is because you made some VERY.... STUPID.. CHOICES.  ANd make better ones.

Yup we should accept all those things in the west. If they choose violence, wipe them out.

Sure we are.  A violent aggressor who doesn't believe in Ukraine's right to exist attacked ukraine and we're giving them arms to fight back and end that threat.

 A violent aggressor who doesnt' believe israel should exist attacked israel and we're supporting their right ot fight back (doesn't look like they need any of our weapons tho).

There is only one side who can end this peacefully, and it's not isreal.

its already admitted that there is belief and rhetoric on both sides that should be ignored. the Jewish population isn't going anywhere and the Palestinians are not going anywhere.

so the violence has to stop. all of it. international peace keepers should be deployed to stop the violence. and don't leave until a peace agreement is reached.

but Israel has rejected the idea of an international peace keeping force for decades. its not in their best interest when they are winning!

i note your love of violence. i guess Canada may be the wrong country for you to live in. here we have the concept of moral responsibility in law. its not legal for me to shoot someone who is throwing a rock at me. even if they know i might shoot them. and for good reason. there also isn't one population that has the opportunity to commit such violence against another population but not the other way around.

[CdnFox]

54 minutes ago, godzilla said:

 

its already admitted that there is belief and rhetoric on both sides that should be ignored. the Jewish population isn't going anywhere and the Palestinians are not going anywhere.

Yes, but only the jewish population is wiling to accept that currently.  And that means the hold up here is the palestinian side.

Quote

so the violence has to stop. all of it. international peace keepers should be deployed to stop the violence. and don't leave until a peace agreement is reached.

We've done that several times now.  Several.  It always fails.  There can be no peace until both sides acknowledge that each has a right to exist and is willing to move forward with that in mind.  Otherwise you don't get peace, you get pauses between fighting and each side just rearms.

Quote

but Israel has rejected the idea of an international peace keeping force for decades. its not in their best interest when they are winning!

Israel doesn't reject that idea in the slightest. But they've been down that road many times and they're not going to agree to it at this point because the international peacekeepers don't do anything. They don't keep the peace, all they do is give an opportunity for Hamas to rearm. So why would they agree to it? If the international community was willing to actually enforce the peace it might be different but that's not the case.

 

Quote

i note your love of violence.

So if I disagree with you I love violence. A typical left wing bullcrap scam artist you are. Can't win a discussion with facts so you go with the 'you're a bad person' argument.

Quote

i guess Canada may be the wrong country for you to live in. here we have the concept of moral responsibility in law. its not legal for me to shoot someone who is throwing a rock at me.

Sorry kiddo you're wrong across the board. This IS the right country for me to live in, here we have a concept that people ARE allowed to defend themselves and when evil forces such as the nazis or taliban or hamas rear their ugly heads we are always willing to go to war to fight that evil.

Oh - and it's perfectly legal to shoot someone for throwing rocks at you if you're in danger.  Go read canada's self defense laws.  I'm third generation little guy - how many weeks ago did you get here?

Quote

there also isn't one population that has the opportunity to commit such violence against another population but not the other way around.

Sure there is - the first nations.  And there has been violence between canada and first nations before.  You probably didn't know that because you just got here.

But sure - in living memory there's been some pretty serious ones.  Oka. Caledonia. A few in bc. etc.  But in all cases both sides came to the understanding that a) both sides have a right to exist  and b) it's better to find a peaceful way.

So peace was possible.

But in this case peace is not possible. It cannot happen while the gazans refuse to accept isreal's right to exist, refuse to condemn the attack that started this, and intend to attack again as soon as possible.

 

Your comments are like a person saying "because you think we may need to end this rabid dog's life after it's incurable and bitten 3 kids already, that must mean you hate dogs".

No. It means i don't see any path other than eliminating the dog to prevent future children attacks. Rabies cannot be cured, and it seems like neither can the gazans.

MAAAAYYYYBEEE - maybe if they suffer truely horrific consequences for their decisions....  MAYBE they'll come to the realization that this is NOT ok and change their minds .  BUt right now - it is YOU who wants to perpetuate the violence.

[godzilla]

north american natives were offered citizenship in the new country. with eventually all of the same rights of citizens. ISRAEL IS NEVER GOING TO OFFER THIS TO PALESTINIANS! what don't you get about that. they are not JEWISH they must LEAVE THE AREA!

the discussion isn't best served if you don't read the links i provide or do the necessary research.

Israel gave money to Hamas in the early days. it was only after Palestinians rights were continuously denigrated that they changed into a protective force. you need to actually look at the history and not just shoot your mouth off.

Israel Rejected Peace with Hamas on Five Occasions

the logic of the situation is pretty simple. million of Jews are immigrating to an area where people are already living. as i've said the violence will not stop once all evil Palestinian children are butchered. Israel will invade other countries as they see fit. they've done it before. they need the land to fulfill their mission of a Jewish state that can accommodate all the world Jews.

Not sure how you are  not noticing that most of Israelis are foreigners. White skinned Americans and Europeans. they just come and come and come.

Answer me this one question. Why does Israel continue to populated the West Bank? how is this in any way not an act of violence against a people who have no where else to go? is this "what you get" when you attack us? we confiscate your land? your homes? you businesses? it makes no sense. it is the act of an occupier. it is the act of a people who claim that they are chosen by god and everyone else is subhuman.

and call me a left wing nut job all you like. the label you call anyone who doesn't agree with you. it doesn't matter that i've voted conservative in the past. that i support conservative financial views and more liberal social views. it doesn't help your extreme cause to alienate everybody else.

Edited December 18, 2023 by godzilla

[robosmith]

17 minutes ago, godzilla said:

the discussion isn't best served if you don't read the links i provide or do the necessary research.

Israel gave money to Hamas in the early days. it was only after Palestinians rights were continuously denigrated that they changed into a protective force. you need to actually look at the history and not just shoot your mouth off.

Israel Rejected Peace with Hamas on Five Occasions

the logic of the situation is pretty simple. million of Jews are immigrating to an area where people are already living. as i've said the violence will not stop once all evil Palestinian children are butchered. Israel will invade other countries as they see fit. they've done it before. they need the land to fulfill their mission of a Jewish state that can accommodate all the world Jews.

Not sure how you are  not noticing that most of Israelis are foreigners. White skinned Americans and Europeans. they just come and come and come.

Answer me this one question. What gave the Jewish people the right to expel native Palestinians from their homes by the hundreds of thousands?

Netanyahu OK'd Qatar's continued infusion of cash to Hamas through most of THIS YEAR.

He was trying to buy them off and prevent collaboration between Hamas and the PA while the settlers stole more Palestinian land.

All part of Netanyahu's plan to destroy the viability of any 2 state solution. Seems it either bit him in the ass or worked to provide the excuse to invade and destroy Gaza. 

Why Netanyahu helped fund Hamas and how that backfired for Israel

Quote

If Benjamin Netanyahu-led Israel didn't create Frankenstein's monster, it for sure helped nourish it. This is why Israel funneled Qatari money to Gaza as Hamas lulled it into a false sense of security and its citizens paid a heavy price for the miscalculation.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by robosmith

[CdnFox]

22 minutes ago, godzilla said:

north american natives were offered citizenship in the new country. with eventually all of the same rights of citizens. ISRAEL IS NEVER GOING TO OFFER THIS TO PALESTINIANS! what don't you get about that. they are not JEWISH they must LEAVE THE AREA!

First off - that took almost 100 years.

Second off - the first nations, after riel died, didn't make a point of shooting rockets at or attacking Canadians. So over time, people looked at how to live together and things got better

If gaza would stop trying to kill isreal then the same thing would happen there. Israel has sat down to hash this out before till hamas shot a hole in the negotiations.

So you're simply wrong. When the two sides aren't trying to kill each other, it's possible to discuss peace

Quote

the discussion isn't best served if you don't read the links i provide or do the necessary research.

This is pretty simple. Either they let go of the past and decide to live in peace or they choose violence and die in pieces.

 

 

Quote

Israel gave money to Hamas in the early days. it was only after Palestinians rights were continuously denigrated that they changed into a protective force. you need to actually look at the history and not just shoot your mouth off.

Makes zero difference.  This is today. And hamas has for many years called for the distruction of israel and does so today.  So this is the result.  You want it to be more complex - it isn't.

 

 

Quote

Israel Rejected Peace with Hamas on Five Occasions

That's nice.  Then maybe get rid of hamas. who's stated goals have been the destruction of israel for the last 20 years.

 

Quote

Answer me this one question. Why does Israel continue to populated the West Bank?

Don't care. Gaza is not the west bank. Hamas does not control the west bank.  And i do know that palestinians are allowed to live in Israel as well. But as long as palestine wants to irradicate the jews "From the river to the sea" then they're bringing it on themselves.

Quote

and call me a left wing nut job all you like. the label you call anyone who doesn't agree with you.

You literally claimed i love people dying, and you're going to pull that crap?

Would calling you an insufferable assh*le be more to your liking? It's certainly accurate.  Honestly - listening to you here, watching you ignore simple facts and then claim I"M some sort of heartless butcher who loves watching kids die just because i happened to make statements of truth to you makes it very hard to care if your people are wiped out. You're a stain on the planet.

Having said that, the best option would be for gaza to surrender, the killing to stop, hamas to be destroyed, and HOPEFULLY for the gazan's to decide that trying to live in peace is a better option.

But you can't talk to me about what israel has or hasn't done until the gazan's agree that israel should exist and that they want to live in peace.