Trump claims immunity from ANYTHING!

[godzilla]

28 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Aside from being an effort to distract from your last erroneous statement, that makes no sense at all.  Even if trump were immune from prosecution based on the law that wouldn't have anything to do with not having an election?

yeah it does... if Trump is above the law then so is Biden. So Biden can become a dictator, call in the army, dissolve congress and the senate. do whatever he likes because he is immune to prosecution of any kind!

Trumps argument is ludicrous. its designed to save his ass only... and thus SCOTUS will rule in his favour at their own peril. Biden could have them shot!

look, if Trump is clearly innocent then he simply needs to communicate now how the facts provided in the indictments are false. but he cannot. and thus, he needs to argue that his is immune to all prosecution for life! like thats gonna work.

so the other tactic is to delay as long as possible, hope he can be elected and the shut down federal charges. but that doesn't make state charges go away.

Edited December 14, 2023 by godzilla

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, godzilla said:

no. look, ballot harvesting is just a delivery method.

Well we know that isn't true, which is why it's illegal in many places.

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there are voter rolls. and those rolls are managed by the state.

Utterly irrelevant.  That does not prevent illegal harvesting,

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in the end, if there is an audit, then these people get contacted and they confirm that they voted and who they voted for.

That has never happened in the history of voting and isn't reasonably possible. You're talking about approaching millions of voters - and hoping every single one of them tells the truth and remembers correctly. The man hours are insane, the cost would be rediculous and you can't even get 100 people to be honest about what they had for lunch

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this was done in Arizona. it was done in numerous states that Republicans leaned on.

Nope.

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not one of them was willing to stand in front of a judge and provide evidence of mass voter fraud!

Ok - so you're telling me the gov't can go in - take your  ballot - look at how you voted - and then once they've officially recorded how you personally voted demand that you appear in court and confirm to the world how you voted. And you feel this is pretty legal do you?

So you believe the right to a secret ballot does not exist in the us federal voting system in the states.  Is that correct?

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, godzilla said:

so the other tactic is to delay as long as possible, hope he can be elected and the shut down federal charges. but that doesn't make state charges go away.

Well, there is a legal argument that state charges would be delayed if Trump is elected, until after his term.

By then, it would be much more difficult to bring them.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, godzilla said:

yeah it does... if Trump is above the law then so is Biden. So Biden can become a dictator, call in the army, dissolve congress and the senate. do whatever he likes because he is immune to prosecution of any kind!

Ok - so ...   it's hard not to make a little fun of you with this   

1 - All of the others would be prosecuted for following such orders because biden would not have lawful authority to issue them. So it would never happen

2 - If biden had the power to actually do that with or without the law, he would have created a coup and would not have to worry about the law of the previous gov't regardless    LOL

I don't know what you were thinking there

1 hour ago, godzilla said:

Trumps argument is ludicrous.

No no - such a law does in fact exist.  Trump's argument is arguably wrong but it's not ludicrous by any stretch of the imagination. The law does actually say the president cannot be prosecuted for any crimes committed essentially if they happen while he's exercising his duties - and trump is claiming what he did occurred when he was exercising his duties. I think the second part is a stretch and he won't get away with saying it was part of his duties  but yes the president cannot be charged for crimes in a variety of circumstances. So it wasn't out to lunch

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look, if Trump is clearly innocent then he simply needs to communicate now how the facts provided in the indictments are false.

Honestly  - it's getting harder and harder to ignore your clear ignorance.  In ANY legal case - INNOCENT OR GUILTY - every lawyer will ALWAYS attempt to make every argument they can under the law to win for their client.  It is beyond asinine to suggest that "oh he should only try one defense" -  you try them ALL and see where things land.  Why would a sane person even one who's innocent say "Gosh - this would mean i don't even have to face a trial but i don't think i'll try it, i'll just risk court".

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so the other tactic is to delay as long as possible, hope he can be elected and the shut down federal charges. but that doesn't make state charges go away.

There's ways to deal with that as well. The fed ones are the big ones.

[Rebound]

9 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Ok - so ...   it's hard not to make a little fun of you with this   

1 - All of the others would be prosecuted for following such orders because biden would not have lawful authority to issue them. So it would never happen

2 - If biden had the power to actually do that with or without the law, he would have created a coup and would not have to worry about the law of the previous gov't regardless    LOL

I don't know what you were thinking there

No no - such a law does in fact exist.  Trump's argument is arguably wrong but it's not ludicrous by any stretch of the imagination. The law does actually say the president cannot be prosecuted for any crimes committed essentially if they happen while he's exercising his duties - and trump is claiming what he did occurred when he was exercising his duties. I think the second part is a stretch and he won't get away with saying it was part of his duties  but yes the president cannot be charged for crimes in a variety of circumstances. So it wasn't out to lunch

Honestly  - it's getting harder and harder to ignore your clear ignorance.  In ANY legal case - INNOCENT OR GUILTY - every lawyer will ALWAYS attempt to make every argument they can under the law to win for their client.  It is beyond asinine to suggest that "oh he should only try one defense" -  you try them ALL and see where things land.  Why would a sane person even one who's innocent say "Gosh - this would mean i don't even have to face a trial but i don't think i'll try it, i'll just risk court".

There's ways to deal with that as well. The fed ones are the big ones.

Trump’s repeated claim is that he has “Absolute Immunity” from all criminal prosecution for any act he committed while he was President. The claim is not backed up by any law or the Constitution.  
 

While DoJ POLICY is not to prosecute a sitting President, it is only a policy and could be changed at any time by the AG.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Rebound

[Deluge]

14 hours ago, robosmith said:

You can't investigate EVERY possibility without an harassing FISHING EXPEDITION.

You're supposed to have probable cause to further investigate ANYTHING. Except apparently in the Republican House where they routinely use fishing expeditions for POLITICAL HARASSMENT.

Of course unlike a FAIR criminal investigation, there is MAJOR PUBLICITY BEFORE ANYTHING IS FOUND.

Remember when the FBI was investigating Trump for COLLUSION before the election? Only the investigation of Hillary's emails was PUBLIC BEFORE ANYTHING WAS FOUND. ?

Sure you can. You investigate the f*ck out of every possibility there is. You do that because you know there is no way in hell that 81 million Americans vote for a lying racist like Joe Biden. Trump had all the momentum with his campaign, and Biden sits his wrinkled old useless ass in the basement while he waits for his manufactured victory? LOL

The search continues because a Biden win defies logic and reasoning. 

[Deluge]

14 hours ago, Aristides said:

"Possibilities" are not facts or evidence.

Possibilities are still possible, so the investigations continue. 

[Rebound]

31 minutes ago, Deluge said:

Sure you can. You investigate the f*ck out of every possibility there is. You do that because you know there is no way in hell that 81 million Americans vote for a lying racist like Joe Biden. Trump had all the momentum with his campaign, and Biden sits his wrinkled old useless ass in the basement while he waits for his manufactured victory? LOL

The search continues because a Biden win defies logic and reasoning. 

If Biden has “absolute immunity,” then why is Congress investigating him at all? He’s immune!

[Deluge]

12 minutes ago, Rebound said:

If Biden has “absolute immunity,” then why is Congress investigating him at all? He’s immune!

Biden's a fraud; he doesn't get immunity. 

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, Deluge said:

Biden's a fraud; he doesn't get immunity. 

So do you want presidents who are accountable to no one or just Trump? 

[Deluge]

2 minutes ago, Aristides said:

So do you want presidents who are accountable to no one or just Trump? 

I think Trump's just buying time. The thought just hit me when I read about a judge suspending the case to give Trump time to file. 

[Aristides]

1 minute ago, Deluge said:

I think Trump's just buying time. The thought just hit me when I read about a judge suspending the case to give Trump time to file. 

That's why Smith wants to go directly to the SCOTUS because that is where it would wind up anyway.

[Deluge]

2 minutes ago, Aristides said:

That's why Smith wants to go directly to the SCOTUS because that is where it would wind up anyway.

And the SCOTUS should shoot Smith down, so it'll be another Trump victory lap. 

[Aristides]

4 minutes ago, Deluge said:

And the SCOTUS should shoot Smith down, so it'll be another Trump victory lap. 

They might but why would the SCOTUS make all presidents exempt from the law? 

[Deluge]

Just now, Aristides said:

They might but why would the SCOTUS make all presidents exempt from the law? 

They'll probably come back with some kind of election interference ruling because they know this is a political witch hunt, not an honest pursuit of justice. 

[Aristides]

24 minutes ago, Deluge said:

They'll probably come back with some kind of election interference ruling because they know this is a political witch hunt, not an honest pursuit of justice. 

That isn't what they are being asked to rule on. Do you think the SCOTUS should be involved in current politics or just concern themselves with the law because you seem to be saying they should become just another political faction. So much for another of your famous checks and balances that you seem intent on destroying. Trump is claiming presidential immunity from the law. If it can apply to him, why not every other president?

Edited December 14, 2023 by Aristides

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, Rebound said:

Trump’s repeated claim is that he has “Absolute Immunity” from all criminal prosecution for any act he committed while he was President. The claim is not backed up by any law or the Constitution.  
 

 

It is in fact. In nixon v fitzgerald it was already established that there can be no personal lawsuits for executing his duties and additional rulings certainly opened the door for that to be true for criminal liability too.  As the courts note to do otherwise would undermine the entire system and make governance pretty much impossible.

Now - to be clear trump's claim was NOT that he's "immune for everything', but that he's immune for everything that's part of his presidential duties. Which may well be true.  He further argued that what happened on jan 6 and such was  him exercising his presidential duties and THAT is going to be an order of magnitude harder to demonstrate.

So he MIGHT get agreement on the immunity part of his argument, but will likely lose on arguing that what happened was part of his presidential "Duties".

But pretending there's no legal argument to be made is just wrong.

Seriously - trump does enough legitimately stupid and wrong things, you guys really don't need to make crap up that isn't true. And when you do you make others wonder if trump has a point.  If you can't make your case with the truth, then you don't have much of a case   

[CdnFox]

32 minutes ago, Aristides said:

They might but why would the SCOTUS make all presidents exempt from the law? 

Not exempt from the law entirely.  Exempt from prosectuion for offences that result from exercising their duties as president specifically.

And there are some very good reasons for that. As the courts have already ruled for the president to be held liable in such cases it would seriously weaken the president's ability to do his job ,

For example - president is responding to a terrorist issue and for various reasons immediately authorizes  a drone strike that kills a terrorist leader in another country.

A political opponent here tries to have charges laid for murder, claiming that some proceedural technicality was missed and this was there fore murder.

That kind of thing can't happen.

The reasonable limiter is "while performing the duties of his office".  Not - sort of connected with (like giving political speeches) or the like  - if he rapes a girl in the oval office it's still a crime because raping people isn't part of his duties.  Nixon for example would still be criminally liable because wiretapping your opponents for political gain isn't part of your presidential duties.

Its a serious question for the courts and the answer is not cut and dry.

I dont think it'll help trump tho - even if the say he's right about the presidential immunity he'd have a hell of a time arguing that his behavior was directly part of his duties as president.

[Deluge]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

That isn't what they are being asked to rule on. Do you think the SCOTUS should be involved in current politics or just concern themselves with the law because you seem to be saying they should become just another political faction. So much for another of your famous checks and balances that you seem intent on destroying. Trump is claiming presidential immunity from the law. If it can apply to him, why not every other president?

Trump wants immunity; the SCOTUS should grant him temporary immunity. 

The SCOTUS should grant him temporary immunity because the left is conducting a political with hunt, not pursuing justice in an honest fashion. 

[robosmith]

4 hours ago, Deluge said:

Sure you can. You investigate the f*ck out of every possibility there is. You do that because you know there is no way in hell that 81 million Americans vote for a lying racist like Joe Biden. Trump had all the momentum with his campaign, and Biden sits his wrinkled old useless ass in the basement while he waits for his manufactured victory? LOL

The search continues because a Biden win defies logic and reasoning. 

What you "know" is BULLSHIT. You've admitted in the past you have NO EVIDENCE, and you STILL DON'T.

3 hours ago, Deluge said:

Biden's a fraud; he doesn't get immunity. 

You're a fraud and have NO SAY in that decision. LMAO

[robosmith]

10 minutes ago, Deluge said:

Trump wants immunity; the SCOTUS should grant him temporary immunity. 

The SCOTUS should grant him temporary immunity because the left is conducting a political with hunt, not pursuing justice in an honest fashion. 

Too bad ^your OPINION means NOTHING in this (or any other) case.

[Deluge]

2 minutes ago, robosmith said:

What you "know" is BULLSHIT. You've admitted in the past you have NO EVIDENCE, and you STILL DON'T.

You're a fraud and have NO SAY in that decision. LMAO

I know YOU are full of shit, but then so does everyone else, including you.

 

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Too bad ^your OPINION means NOTHING in this (or any other) case.

His opinion means something. If you'll recall - it's YORU beliefs that mean nothing, which you said yourself.

[Deluge]

3 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Too bad ^your OPINION means NOTHING in this (or any other) case.

It's not just me, robotriggered; I share the thinking of millions of Americans and we all know you f*ckers need to be neutralized in this next election. 

Trump will take his rightful place as President of this country, and I can't wait to see what he does with the democrat vermin.

 

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, Deluge said:

It's not just me, robotriggered; I share the thinking of millions of Americans and we all know you f*ckers need to be neutralized in this next election. 

Trump will take his rightful place as President of this country, and I can't wait to see what he does with the democrat vermin.

 

hehehe - robotriggered