Natural gas should be a public resource again

[Griswold]

18 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

No, i do  not see.

And the question is "Who Shall Pay?"

They gonna lay the pipe for free? Or will the cost on the LNG include that pipe??

You really do not have much of a clue do you herbie?  LOL  Nothing is free.

 

Oh and, I would never buy an EV to save money on gas.

 

All we need is some competition,

which we do not currently have.

[herbie]

6 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

And how do you know LNG will be cheaper than oil.

Can't afford steak now so how can I eat meat loaf when you can't do it on a stick over an open fire?

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Can't afford steak now so how can I eat meat loaf when you can't do it on a stick over an open fire?

Oh herbie....resort to nonsense when you do not have a good argument.

Fact is, you cannot snap your fingers and make it happen. It costs a lot and the users always have to pay.

[ExFlyer]

On 11/24/2023 at 7:58 PM, Griswold said:

Yes indeed. Monopolies used to be illegal, but now governments have judged that they are not.

If the vast supplies of natural gas were up to the free market, the entire economy would get a massive boost by lower prices for energy, namely natural gas.  Instead, governments allowed very few companies to acquire a virtual monopoly over this vast resource, to the detriment of all.

Your argument is self-defeating.

Monopolies??

The discussion is shipping LNG to the east coast.

And then what would the infrastructure change cost users.

On 11/25/2023 at 2:33 PM, Griswold said:

All we need is some competition,

which we do not currently have.

Competition?

In natural resources?

In LNG?

Are you aware of the topic? LOL

[herbie]

I'm sorry that many of you "don't get" simple abstractions of the very arguments you make yourself. I can't help you; there is no cure for that.

But can't help chuckle at the 'competition' argument. The solution to everything isn't it.
We used to spend millions clearing the roads with public employees. Now they compete so the lowest bidder can run out their budget on the 20th and there's no snow clearing at all if it snows Saturday, Sunday or on the last week of the month.

And my taxes didn't go down a nickel, way less people have jobs and the ones that still have one get paid less. Yep, solved everything.

 

 

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

I'm sorry that many of you "don't get" simple abstractions of the very arguments you make yourself. I can't help you; there is no cure for that.

But can't help chuckle at the 'competition' argument. The solution to everything isn't it.
We used to spend millions clearing the roads with public employees. Now they compete so the lowest bidder can run out their budget on the 20th and there's no snow clearing at all if it snows Saturday, Sunday or on the last week of the month.

And my taxes didn't go down a nickel, way less people have jobs and the ones that still have one get paid less. Yep, solved everything.

 

 

herbie....you are lost in your own argument.

Your opening post on why  "Natural gas should be a public resource again" is "Can't afford steak now so how can I eat meat loaf when you can't do it on a stick over an open fire? " and it has not gotten any clearer since.  LOL

[herbie]

Perhaps you should think real hard that maybe I was responding to your post and not the thread title.

I mean after all, you've consistently replied that Joe Individual 'can't afford' gas as a public resource. As if it was something he'd personally have to fully pay for from his own pocket. That even if Borg Inc. or Acme Inc. Joe is so unbelievably penniless he couldn't afford the meter installation fee let alone a new furnace.

Maybe Joe's like the kids that go to the dealer down the block and buy a joint for $5 seven times a day cuz it's impossible to save up a whole $30 and buy a quarter at the Pot Shop.
 

[ExFlyer]

11 hours ago, herbie said:

Perhaps you should think real hard that maybe I was responding to your post and not the thread title.

I mean after all, you've consistently replied that Joe Individual 'can't afford' gas as a public resource. As if it was something he'd personally have to fully pay for from his own pocket. That even if Borg Inc. or Acme Inc. Joe is so unbelievably penniless he couldn't afford the meter installation fee let alone a new furnace.

Maybe Joe's like the kids that go to the dealer down the block and buy a joint for $5 seven times a day cuz it's impossible to save up a whole $30 and buy a quarter at the Pot Shop.
 

herbie, bottom ine is someone has to pay for all your wishes.

If they cannot pay for th oil from Saudi now to heat their homes, how are they going to pay for LNG that comes through the Panama Canal and requires the entire province and homes to be converted to LNG?

My posts are about economic, physical and structural reality, yours is some sort of imaginary wish.

[herbie]

Oh FFS I can't tell if your total negativity is due to manic depression or just being contrary out of spite.

They'll PAY the same damn way everyone else in the country paid for theirs. And a public corporation can deliver it without gouging users to earn maximum profits. And they don't have to pay, they will want to as it costs less than oil heat.

My sister converted to propane back in 2013 just because it costs less and natural gas was 'coming soon' a decade ago. We've blown tens of billions in tax dollars building lines to export oil & gas and totally neglected to supply Canadians with our own product. That is simply stupid.

[ExFlyer]

20 hours ago, herbie said:

Oh FFS I can't tell if your total negativity is due to manic depression or just being contrary out of spite.

They'll PAY the same damn way everyone else in the country paid for theirs. And a public corporation can deliver it without gouging users to earn maximum profits. And they don't have to pay, they will want to as it costs less than oil heat.

My sister converted to propane back in 2013 just because it costs less and natural gas was 'coming soon' a decade ago. We've blown tens of billions in tax dollars building lines to export oil & gas and totally neglected to supply Canadians with our own product. That is simply stupid.

You friggen idit.

They cannot pay as it is. They are getting carbon tax cuts so they can afford oil now.

If LNG comes, they will have to pay to get their homes converted over and whatever the cost of LNG infrastructure and product cost is.

Are you gonna give them money to do that?? You !dot. They cannot afford it now and they certainly will not be able to afford more costly service and product then.

I cannot believe you are grown up person? Or then again, you are mentally still a kid?? LOL

[herbie]

You buy into the story everyone in Atlantic Canada is destitute and one step from homelessness.
Like I pointed out, some people already converted from oil, paid for a new furnace to save money before there even was a carbon tax. Normal people not 1% ers.
If it's available, other people will convert to, and really f*cking fast.

We have gas out our ying-yang here in BC and you think people aren't already moving to heat pumps cuz they're too f*cking broke to spend money now in order not to p1ss it away later? With all those govt and power company grants and low cost loans?
You keep arguing the "can't afford gas now for my F350 and I'm too broke to sell it and buy a Toyota" point as if it applies to everyone in Canada. Nice try.

[ExFlyer]

17 hours ago, herbie said:

You buy into the story everyone in Atlantic Canada is destitute and one step from homelessness.
.....

We have gas out our ying-yang here in BC and you think people aren't already moving to heat pumps cuz they're too f*cking broke to spend money now in order not to p1ss it away later? With all those govt and power company grants and low cost loans?
You keep arguing the "can't afford gas now for my F350 and I'm too broke to sell it and buy a Toyota" point as if it applies to everyone in Canada. Nice try.

Man herbie....find out what goes on in other parts of Canada. You clearly live only in La La Land. That mountain range is keeping you from becoming informed about the rest of Canada. You are such a homer, knowing nothing about Canada.

F350???/ herbie...give your head a shake, shake out the stupid, make room for common sense not your !diocy.

Edited December 1, 2023 by ExFlyer

[GroundskeeperWillie]

On 11/11/2023 at 9:51 AM, Griswold said:

There are really preposterous amounts of natural gas "in reserve."  Under the normal law of supply-and-demand, it should be cheap and affordable to all.

But instead, governments have judged that the market is best served by big companies who limit supply to increase prices.  I think the economy would get a much larger boost from affordable gas than from any tax revenue from monopolistic companies. 

I agree, and personally, I think the nationalization of important natural sources should be a legitimate topic.  If a resource comes out of the soil, it should be public property.  All citizens should be able to benefit from it.

[CdnFox]

On 11/18/2023 at 1:34 PM, ExFlyer said:

Yeah sure...blame the  government for stuff that does not sell or have market value.

Fact is that if someone wants it, there will be a market.

Feds want to sell natural gas but there are some provinces that just won't let it happen (Quebec, BC)

Well - to be fair, in bc the gov't is interfering in the industry quite a bit by restricting and eliminating it's use. I believe it was just a few days ago they said that no new home must be allowed to be heated by gas.  They've done quite a bit to eliminate and regulate the industry here anyway.

[cougar]

On 11/11/2023 at 9:51 AM, Griswold said:

I think the economy would get a much larger boost from affordable gas than from any tax revenue from monopolistic companies. 

The economy is unlikely to get a boost, let alone from the use of natural gas.

You see that economic boost is harmful to the environment , hence harmful to the survival of life on Earth.   

I think capitalism is f*d.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, cougar said:

The economy is unlikely to get a boost, let alone from the use of natural gas.

You see that economic boost is harmful to the environment , hence harmful to the survival of life on Earth.   

I think capitalism is f*d.

Yes but you're not that educated. Those who are recognize capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system ever in the history of man and it's not even close.

And you don't solve the problems of the environment by fake solutions like a carbon tax. You use what you've got till you develop the tech to do better.  We used to burn wood, then we burned coal. Then we learned to burn oil,which is better and now we know how to burn natural gas which is better and hopefully within a reasonable time we'll figure out the next better thing.

If you don't do it that way, you get a backlash which is precisely what's happening with the carbon tax right now.  It did ZERO good and now people are prepared to ax it and put climate change on a much lower priority because they can't afford food for their kids or a roof over their heads.

 

[cougar]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Those who are recognize capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system ever in the history of man and it's not even close.

 

"Lifted out of poverty"????   Look at all the villages of homeless in every large, medium and even small cities.

Look at those people in debt.  Look at those that have to work two or three jobs to make ends meet still getting nowhere.

You are kidding yourself. 

We have some semblance of a standard of life supported by constant population growth and constant stripping of the natural resources.  It cannot and will not go on forever.

As for the carbon tax, I never raised this subject.  You can argue against it with those who support it.  I don't.

 

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, cougar said:

"Lifted out of poverty"????   Look at all the villages of homeless in every large, medium and even small cities.

 

Yeah - look at them.  The people still mange to get food, they often get free medical and other services, they usually have clothes.  And thats our most poor.  Do you have any idea what actual poverty looked like before capitalism?

And look at the percentages, If you look at real poverty, not just poor but unable to aquire the necessaries of life, then the percent of the population in most capitalist nations is aboslutely tiny.'  It used to be a considerable hunk of the population.  Take a look at poverty in communist russia.

Nowadays capitalism has reduced poverty to the point where it means you have to share a cell phone

And around the world people who used to live in that abject poverty have been lifted out of it by capitalism. 

Sorry kiddo - capitalism works. It's made more people have a better life than anything else by leaps and bounds.

Quote

As for the carbon tax, I never raised this subject. 

You did tho - you asked if other parties don't support people having food  and shelter - and the fact is the carbon tax works to prevent that right now and they're upping it.  So - there you go. the other parties are more interested in virtue signalling than providing food and shelter to the people. 

[cougar]

38 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Yeah - look at them.  The people still mange to get food, they often get free medical and other services, they usually have clothes.  And thats our most poor.  Do you have any idea what actual poverty looked like before capitalism?

And look at the percentages, If you look at real poverty, not just poor but unable to aquire the necessaries of life, then the percent of the population in most capitalist nations is aboslutely tiny.'  It used to be a considerable hunk of the population.  Take a look at poverty in communist russia.

 

🤣 Laughable.   You have 6 million Canadians that don't have a doctor and are left more or less to die, and yet you tell me the homeless were getting free medical care.

I do remember times from the bygones where there were no homeless.  I lived in a socialist city of 100,000 and most had no cars, and nobody was really rich, but there was nobody on the street or starving either.

Don't take this is an endorsement of Russia or Putin.  I think both Putin and Zelensky have lost their minds if they ever had minds.

But to go back to the original subject, you have no time to replace gasoline and diesel with LNG or electric options; for sure not when you still want to increase consumption and the population, which your capitalist system is pushing you to do, as if you do not do it, it will collapse and die.

Your options are limited - admit the system does not work and figure out a better one really fast, or keep your foot on the gas till you hit the brick wall.

Edited February 20 by cougar

[CdnFox]

8 hours ago, cougar said:

🤣 Laughable.   You have 6 million Canadians that don't have a doctor and are left more or less to die, and yet you tell me the homeless were getting free medical care.

You start out with a lie and go down hill from there.  Here's a clue - if you have to lie to make your point, you don't really have a point.

Nobody anywhere is left to die in canada.  EVERYONE gets health care - drug addicts who don't even value their own lives get expert care and treatment every single day. They recieve money every month,  they had access to food banks an other charities that are funded by the wealth created by capitalism.  There's also plenty of programs to get people OFF of the streets and help them rebuild their lives.

Sorry kiddo - 'Poverty' doesn't mean not having a family doctor and having to go to the clinic or emerg. Talk about your 'first world problems'. Thanks to capitalism people around the world have had their quality of life substantially elevated and the 'poor' do better than many of the average people did in the times before capitalism.

[Legato]

14 hours ago, cougar said:

The economy is unlikely to get a boost, let alone from the use of natural gas.

You see that economic boost is harmful to the environment , hence harmful to the survival of life on Earth.   

I think capitalism is f*d.

So you would sooner go back to pre-capitalism times?

I don't think you realise it never was a Dickensian Christmas story, There have always been Scrooges.

[cougar]

On 2/20/2024 at 8:53 AM, CdnFox said:

 EVERYONE gets health care

When you can't get it on time, you are left to die. Those without family doctors and even those who do have family doctors do not get health care on time.

Must be cheaper to bring another person from abroad than cure a sick Canadian. 

[cougar]

On 2/20/2024 at 9:11 AM, Legato said:

So you would sooner go back to pre-capitalism times?

Go back, move forward, whatever we want to call it, because what we have can no longer work.

[Legato]

7 minutes ago, cougar said:

Go back, move forward, whatever we want to call it, because what we have can no longer work.

Go back/forward to what?

[cougar]

1 hour ago, Legato said:

Go back/forward to what?

To a better system of resource distribution.  One that can survive with zero growth