Democrats should support moderate Republican speaker of the House

reason10 · October 16, 2023

1 hour ago, Caswell Thomas said:

Trump's idea of Mainstream America are the people who support him financially and ideologically, as soon as you stop giving him money or start thinking for yourself he disowns and denounces you. That's not a leader, its a dictator. The USA is led by a duly elected by the citizens President. There is no.place in America or its Constitution for a dictatorship.

WRONG.

Mainstream America elected and reelected him in two landslides, only to have the second one stolen.

People don't give Trump money. He gives people money. He is SELF MADE billionaire. And you Nazis didn't start hating him until he stopped giving money to Democrats and decided to run for President as a Republican.

The USA is NOT led by a president, you MORE ON. This is NOT a monarchy. The United States has THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT that make the national decisions. You shouldn't have dropped out of the third grade. You might have learned that.

We are IN a dictatorship right now with an unelected Nazi Pedophile who stole the office.

Caswell Thomas · October 16, 2023

24 minutes ago, reason10 said:

WRONG.

Mainstream America elected and reelected him in two landslides, only to have the second one stolen.

People don't give Trump money. He gives people money. He is SELF MADE billionaire. And you Nazis didn't start hating him until he stopped giving money to Democrats and decided to run for President as a Republican.

The USA is NOT led by a president, you MORE ON. This is NOT a monarchy. The United States has THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT that make the national decisions. You shouldn't have dropped out of the third grade. You might have learned that.

We are IN a dictatorship right now with an unelected Nazi Pedophile who stole the office.

You are obviously Murrieta men and you will find yourself at a significant loss when they cart Trump off to.jail after he makes financial restitution of the millions and millions he stole or conned out of banks, insurers, investors, other real estate brokers, and his deluded followers who will, as they are already doing, throwing Trump under the bus to quickly carve themselves whatever deals they can get to avoid prison terms because there where they put people who defraud the U. S. Government .

Caswell Thomas · October 16, 2023

Just now, Caswell Thomas said:

You are obviously Murrieta men and you will find yourself at a significant loss when they cart Trump off to.jail after he makes financial restitution of the millions and millions he stole or conned out of banks, insurers, investors, other real estate brokers, and his deluded followers who will, as they are already doing, throwing Trump under the bus to quickly carve themselves whatever deals they can get to avoid prison terms because there where they put people who defraud the U. S. Government .

Murrieta men is a reference to Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, I trust you will understand my meaning.

Rebound · October 16, 2023

9 hours ago, reason10 said:

WRONG.

Mainstream America elected and reelected him in two landslides, only to have the second one stolen.

People don't give Trump money. He gives people money. He is SELF MADE billionaire. And you Nazis didn't start hating him until he stopped giving money to Democrats and decided to run for President as a Republican.

The USA is NOT led by a president, you MORE ON. This is NOT a monarchy. The United States has THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT that make the national decisions. You shouldn't have dropped out of the third grade. You might have learned that.

We are IN a dictatorship right now with an unelected Nazi Pedophile who stole the office.

You need psychiatric help.

Hodad · October 16, 2023

19 hours ago, myata said:

Maybe but did you have to blow it up, did it give you some rational reason to do that? You could try some intelligent approach, or stand by tell people what you think and let them make up their minds. Why blow up? What good did you get from it (and the country)?

You are writing pure fiction here.

The Democrats had no power to "blow up" McCarthy's speakership. As a matter of fact, their votes didn't change at all from his initial election to his deposal.

Gaetz and the chaos caucus initiated the vote. They changed their votes. They "blew it up." All because McCarthy gave them the power to do so.

Democrats didn't initiate anything or change their position. Yet you want to blame them, rather than the people who actually took action. It's bizarre. Not sure how you managed to convince yourself of this.

robosmith · October 16, 2023

On 10/13/2023 at 5:01 PM, myata said:

Ohh I wouldn't talk more about the obvious difference between "supporting" and "not bringing down with all might"? Or maybe it's genuine, so in you personal life, whatever you don't happen to support you just destroy, bring down without a moments thought? Or only the politics?

So the previous speaker did bad things to Democrats. Sure there may be enough ground to conclude that he couldn't count on their support. But, judging objectively, is the current situation better, for them and for the country (and for the world)? Do you act for the better in the reality or like an automaton, or a spoiled child, without much reflection? If your act could not improve the situation (for the people) should you still proceed - or think a bit more?

With 5 Republican votes, the speaker could be Hakeem Jeffries.

But instead you advocate that Democrats CAVE to extortion from extremist Republicans.

Makes ZERO sense.

robosmith · October 16, 2023

On 10/14/2023 at 8:02 AM, reason10 said:

Jordan is a moderate. He is mainstream, and represents most of mainstream Americans.

Trump was a centrist and he represented the mainstream of Americans. That's why the DemoNazis have ass fugged the Constitution to prevent him from running again.

So you're claiming that "mainstream of Americans" agree with Trump's demand to "terminate the Constitution."

Thanks for demonstrating just how delusional you are.

robosmith · October 16, 2023

On 10/15/2023 at 8:44 AM, myata said:

It takes more than words, and many politicians don't seem to get it. They came to believe that their role is to perform in the political circus as opposed to fulfilling the role and responsibility delegated by the citizens. The gap can be very wide.

Democrats could have shown it by stating clear principles of power sharing; and by refraining from toppling the House at the first opportunity presented ironically, by their arch-enemies. Great talking means very little when deeds show the contrary.

Democrats could have toppled McCarthy MONTHS AGO. It ONLY TOOK ONE MEMBER.

So there were MANY OPPORTUNITIES over the last 9 months.

robosmith · October 16, 2023

20 hours ago, myata said:

Folks I'm chatting the mob converts in another thread and honestly, you don't look not much better here. Do you understand the difference between a) I do something to get a better result and b) I wash my hands, do nothing and stand aside and c) I blow up everything that doesn't go my way and see what happens.

Which one? Let's try again?

Republican extremists are the ones who chose to "blow up everything." Duh

Longer term they'll be voted out and Democrats will fix it. No reason to take the short sight.

20 hours ago, myata said:

Maybe but did you have to blow it up, did it give you some rational reason to do that? You could try some intelligent approach, or stand by tell people what you think and let them make up their minds. Why blow up? What good did you get from it (and the country)?

You get Republican embarrassment and likely being VOTED OUT because they're IRRESPONSIBLE.

robosmith · October 16, 2023

15 hours ago, reason10 said:

WRONG.

Mainstream America elected and reelected him in two landslides, only to have the second one stolen.

People don't give Trump money. He gives people money. He is SELF MADE billionaire. And you Nazis didn't start hating him until he stopped giving money to Democrats and decided to run for President as a Republican.

The USA is NOT led by a president, you MORE ON. This is NOT a monarchy. The United States has THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT that make the national decisions. You shouldn't have dropped out of the third grade. You might have learned that.

We are IN a dictatorship right now with an unelected Nazi Pedophile who stole the office.

Without EVIDENCE, ^this OPINION means NOTHING.

MAGA CULT FAILED to present evidence IN COURT. AKA BUPKIS.

myata · October 16, 2023

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

Democrats could have toppled McCarthy

No you could not. You took a cue from the marginal caucus and did their job for them. I've no time for manipulations of the facts and reality, whatever side and great causes. If the greatest cause in the world goes against facts and truth, it has to be wrong. Easy.

myata · October 16, 2023

2 hours ago, Hodad said:

Democrats didn't initiate anything or change their position.

You're carefully sidestepping the objective reality of the matter. Very carefully, but why would one? Here it is: if Democrats did not vote against the Speaker (please note: literally. If there's any issues with comprehension I can elaborate, not a problem) would the House be running now? Is there a causal relationship between the vote and the outcome?

robosmith · October 16, 2023

19 minutes ago, myata said:

No you could not. You took a cue from the marginal caucus and did their job for them. I've no time for manipulations of the facts and reality, whatever side and great causes. If the greatest cause in the world goes against facts and truth, it has to be wrong. Easy.

Are you claiming that the single member filing the motion to vacate has to be a Republican?

I believe ANY member could file that motion.

Of course a majority would still have to complete it by confirming the motion to vacate, and maybe the vote would have been different from Gaetz's recall, but it would only take a very few Republicans (~5) to confirm the motion to vacate.

myata · October 16, 2023

Just now, robosmith said:

Republicans (~5) to confirm the motion to vacate.

208 Democrats voted to remove the Speaker and put the House in a limbo. What else can one add to a fact?

robosmith · October 16, 2023

7 minutes ago, myata said:

208 Democrats voted to remove the Speaker and put the House in a limbo. What else can one add to a fact?

You can add that an additional ~5 votes from Republicans for Hakeem Jeffries would save the House from "limbo."

Smaller than the number of Democratic votes necessary to save McCarthy.

Hodad · October 16, 2023

1 hour ago, myata said:

You're carefully sidestepping the objective reality of the matter. Very carefully, but why would one? Here it is: if Democrats did not vote against the Speaker (please note: literally. If there's any issues with comprehension I can elaborate, not a problem) would the House be running now? Is there a causal relationship between the vote and the outcome?

I'm not sidestepping anything. Your question is absurd. If the Democrats had suddenly done a 180-degree turn and handed McCarthy all their support their power (granted to them by their constituents) would the house be running? Sure it would. But it's an asinine question. It's like asking whether the Ukrainians are responsible for the war because they didn't just change their minds and surrender to Russia. Blame the people taking action to upset the status quo.

The Democrats didn't vote for McCarthy the first time. They didn't have any reason to vote for him the second time. In no way, shape or form is it their duty so suddenly start actively supporting McCarthy just because some asshats on the Republican changed their minds and torpedoed his speakership--with the power McCarthy granted to them.

McCarthy made a devil's deal with the chaos caucus to gain the votes the first time.

Gaetz pushed the kill switch McCarthy agreed to and initiated a new vote.

Enough Republicans changed their vote of support for McCarthy to vote against McCarthy.

And the Democrats didn't do anything or change their votes one bit.

Only the Republicans changed support and initiated a change in leadership, and you want to blame the Democrats? You're really just being absurd about this.

Hodad · October 16, 2023

1 hour ago, myata said:

208 Democrats voted to remove the Speaker and put the House in a limbo. What else can one add to a fact?

That's false. 208 Democrats voted that McCarthy should not be Speaker. Exactly as they voted the first time. Nobody voted for limbo. Limbo wasn't on the ballot. And, indeed, there are multiple paths forward to resolve limbo if the majority party can get their shit together in either direction.

myata · October 16, 2023

11 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Nobody voted for limbo. Limbo wasn't on the ballot.

Oh oh.. I'll refrain from obvious analogies. So you don't understand the notion of a cause and effect? Just do stuff and see what happens? Oh oh.

Hodad · October 16, 2023

23 minutes ago, myata said:

Oh oh.. I'll refrain from obvious analogies. So you don't understand the notion of a cause and effect? Just do stuff and see what happens? Oh oh.

Absolutely, I do. I think you do not.

The cause of this current situation is a small number Republicans changing their mind about McCarthy without a viable replacement lined up. They are the ones who changed. They are the ones who disrupted the status quo. You need look no further for a cause.

myata · October 16, 2023

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

They are the ones who disrupted the status quo.

Would that be another creative term for "vote to remove the Speaker"? Go on, from funny to ridiculous.

Hodad · October 16, 2023

24 minutes ago, myata said:

Would that be another creative term for "vote to remove the Speaker"? Go on, from funny to ridiculous.

Nothing creative about it. It's quite literal.

A group of Republicans changed their minds about McCarthy, rescinding their support and costing him the speakership.

Instead of attributing the disruption to those who changed, you attribute it to Democrats, who didn't change at all.

It's funny and ridiculous.

Hell, you might as well blame Democrats for the deal McCarthy made with the chaos caucus that a single member could call for a confidence vote. After all, if Democrats had simply voted for McCarthy in the first round he would never have had to make that deal. Democrats are responsible for what the Republicans do because they didn't vote Republican! ?

Edited October 16, 2023 by Hodad

myata · October 17, 2023

You cannot get around the reality that is: two hundred and eight democrats voted to remove the speaker. This is a fact, and you can try to dance around it only at the cost of losing your credibility. Same with the lying mob, by the way. Instead, you could try to explain the act of the Democratic caucus rationally:

- What was the rationale and objective?

- What positive outcome was expected?

- How was it expected to benefit the country and the citizens?

Rebound · October 17, 2023

12 minutes ago, myata said:

You cannot get around the reality that is: two hundred and eight democrats voted to remove the speaker. This is a fact, and you can try to dance around it only at the cost of losing your credibility. Same with the lying mob, by the way. Instead, you could try to explain the act of the Democratic caucus rationally:

- What was the rationale and objective?

- What positive outcome was expected?

- How was it expected to benefit the country and the citizens?

You cannot get around the reality that you have failed to list even ONE moderate Republican who the Democrats should vote for.

GIVE US A NAME OR SHUT UP ALREADY!

Edited October 17, 2023 by Rebound

myata · October 17, 2023

2 minutes ago, Rebound said:

OR SHUT UP ALREADY!

Where did we hear that, I wonder? All the unbelievable things we learn here. And how else would we find it out?

Rebound · October 17, 2023

Just now, myata said:

Where did we hear that, I wonder? All the unbelievable things we learn here. And how else would we find it out?

You think you’re so smart? “the Democrats should do THIS.” Ok, so tell us who the Democrats should vote for. Jordan? Greene? McCarthy? Tell us who and tell us why.

The House has an interim Speaker. The House has a Democrat leader. What they don’t have is a Republican leader, and, no; the Democrats should not elect the leader of the Republicans, just as the Republicans shouldn’t elect the leader of the Democrats.