Should Hamas support rallies in Canada be stopped?

[CdnFox]

12 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Its certainly not what you say it is.

 

Of course it is.  which is why you have no argument against it.  It is precisely what i say it is

Quote

No, it was a particularly disgusting retaliation for Israel's violent brutal occupation of Palestine.

Nope.  But no shock you're trying to defend them again. 

[CITIZEN_2015]

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by CITIZEN_2015

[blackbird]

21 hours ago, eyeball said:

No, it goes against assurances given to Palestinians by England that there would be no Jewish state that Palestinians would need to vacate.

 

Read this.

The white paper, formalized as a Palestine Order in Council in August,^[33] reaffirmed the British commitment to a national home, promised that Palestine would not become a Jewish State and that Arabs would not be subordinated to Jews.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churchill_White_Paper#:~:text=The white paper%2C formalized as,not be subordinated to Jews.

And then Britain did the exact opposite after being driven out by Zionist terrorists. I figured it's because Britain knew exactly what would happen when they did.

 

There are many articles that go into the history and mandates, etc. of the 20th century.  There is another webpage at:

Mandate for Palestine - Wikipedia

It says in part:

quote

The British government issued the Declaration, a public statement announcing support for the establishment of a "national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine, on 2 November 1917. The opening words of the declaration represented the first public expression of support for Zionism by a major political power.[8] The term "national home" had no precedent in international law,[5] and was intentionally vague about whether a Jewish state was contemplated.[5] The intended boundaries of Palestine were not specified,[9] and the British government later confirmed that the words "in Palestine" meant that the Jewish national home was not intended to cover all of Palestine.[10][11][12]  unquote

The issues surrounding Israel and Palestine in these documents and events of the 20th century are complex and probably full of contradictions and vagueness.  Therefore you cannot go by one simple historical declaration or document during the first half of the 20th century.

The fact is Israel declare the State of Israel in May 1948 and was recognized by the League of Nations and later by the U.N.  Of course not all countries recognized that because Islamic countries will not recognize Israel's right to exist.

You seem to be saying that Israel has no right to exist and no right to defend itself, which is completely irrational and against history.  So you lose completely on that basis.

Israel's history in the region goes back several thousand years as well.  According to Biblical revelation they are the owners of the land of Israel as it was given to them by our Creator/God.  Read about it in Genesis Ch12 and possibly Ch17.  

You also still don't seem to agree that Palestinians (Muslims) will never accept Israel's right to exist.  So what do you do in that case?  There is nothing to negotiate because if your enemy won't agree to your right to exist, what is there to talk about?

Edited October 29, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

No, it goes against assurances given to Palestinians by England that there would be no Jewish state that Palestinians would need to vacate.

 

Read this.

The white paper, formalized as a Palestine Order in Council in August,^[33] reaffirmed the British commitment to a national home, promised that Palestine would not become a Jewish State and that Arabs would not be subordinated to Jews.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churchill_White_Paper#:~:text=The white paper%2C formalized as,not be subordinated to Jews.

And then Britain did the exact opposite after being driven out by Zionist terrorists. I figured it's because Britain knew exactly what would happen when they did.

 

One important thing you overlook and is important to know:

Hamas are a diabolical cult of death.  They celebrated the death of more than a thousand Israeli and other national's citizens on Oct 7th.   Hamas and their supporters and Jihadist brothers believe in dying as martyrs is the best way to go.  This is a fact.  They really believe death is the answer.

The Israelis believe in life much like most people in the western world.  Judeo-Christian culture is a culture of life.  We value human life while the terrorists believe in death. 

That is what you are supporting.

[Army Guy]

On 10/27/2023 at 9:34 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Unfortunately you are misinformed. The war was between Arab countries and Israel. But Israeli settlers terrorized defenseless people to get rid of them. THIS WAS A CLEAR CASE OF ETHNIC CLEANSING.

I have never heard of Palestinians forming groups to slaughter Israelis. Proof please.

 

If you think that ethic cleansing was a one side thing your wrong, both sides used it to their advantage...also terrorist attacks made early were also used by both sides...So this whole thing that Israel is the only true terrorist state here is false.

Muslim forces did not want Jews to have a state on what they called Muslim lands, you'll find that brought up several times in the source,  i know wiki is not the best source but their are not many sources that are not bias, written from one perspective.

 

The Second regiment of Yarmouk, under the orders of Adib Shishakli[55] entered Galilee via Lebanon on the night of 11–12 January. The battalion passed through Safed and then settled in the village of Sasa. A third of the regiment's fighters were Palestinian Arabs, and a quarter were Syrian.

The 1st Yarmouk regiment, commanded by Muhammad Tzafa, entered Palestine on the night of 20–21 January, via the Bridge of Damia from Jordan and dispersed around Samaria, where it established its HQ, in the Northern Samarian city of Tubas. The regiment was composed chiefly of Palestinian Arabs and Iraqis.

On 14 January, Abd al-Qadir himself commanded and took part in an attack against Kfar Etzion, in which 1,000 Palestinian Arab combatants were involved.

 Many other examples of thousands of Palestinians where involved in many other units ..

 

1947–1948 civil war in Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

It is precisely what i say it is

Simply because you say so. ?

[Army Guy]

On 10/27/2023 at 8:40 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Send soldiers inside Gaza to target and kill Hamas terrorists one by one not to drop heavy explosives on residential areas to kill a hundred civilians as well as one or two Hamas terrorist. This is so cowardly and brutal.

This is how modern warfare is practiced, one of the military objectives of any army is to limit the needless deaths of your soldiers, by using aircraft and arty to soften enemy positions is how you do that, it is going to save lives.......I keep saying that HAMAS continues to hide among the population, it is what terrorist do. They will use these strikes as a propaganda tool, they want the world to see dead bodies....thats why they launch rockets next to schools or apartment buildings...to get people like you on their side....Do you feel used yet...

You and many others on here seem to think that killing civilians is murder...inter national law, Geneva conventions clearly state what is or can not be targeted, by Hamas using these places to conduct military's operations , ie storing rockets, launching rocket attacks, conducting terrorist attacks , puts all of that null and void....Israel can conduct strikes on these targets legally. They the Palestinians either refuse to leave or they are being forced to stay, either way HAMAS is reasonable for their deaths... 

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

You also still don't seem to agree that Palestinians (Muslims) will never accept Israel's right to exist.  So what do you do in that case?

I don't agree with it because I'm quite certain there are moderate voices on both sides that also don't agree with it. So what we do is listen to them and encourage them to negotiate.

23 years ago, Israelis and Palestinians were talking about a two-state solution.

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

One important thing you overlook and is important to know:

Hamas are a diabolical cult of death.  They celebrated the death of more than a thousand Israeli and other national's citizens on Oct 7th.

That is what you are supporting.

Fu ck off.

Edited October 29, 2023 by eyeball

[blackbird]

26 minutes ago, eyeball said:

23 years ago, Israelis and Palestinians were talking about a two-state solution.

And what it accomplish.  You have radical Islamists and terrorist in the mix.  You must live in a world of fiction.

As for your last line, why bother being on a forum if you are incapable of being civil?

[CdnFox]

50 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Simply because you say so. ?

I simply say so because it is

Just like when i say the sun will rise in the east tomorrow.  it's not me saying so that makes it true - it's that it's true and that's why i says so.

Sorry kiddo

[eyeball]

30 minutes ago, blackbird said:

As for your last line, why bother being on a forum if you are incapable of being civil?

You figure it's civil to compare people to mass murderers?

Fu ck off for not getting that the first time.

[eyeball]

26 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

it's not me saying so that makes it true - it's that it's true and that's why i says so.

Sorry kiddo

No need to apologize for being wrong.

[CdnFox]

10 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No need to apologize for being wrong.

That must save you a hell of a lot of time

 

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

You figure it's civil to compare people to mass murderers?

You continue to ignore the fact that it is the extremist, terrorist elements that control what goes on in the middle east.  You still haven't explained how anybody can "negotiate peace" with terrorists who are bent on wiping you off the map.

How you think the terrorist organizations are suddenly going to disappear because somebody signs a peace deal on a piece of paper?  How do you think they can be trusted?

Edited October 29, 2023 by blackbird

[eyeball]

24 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You continue to ignore the fact that it is the extremist, terrorist elements that control what goes on in the middle east.

That's right.

24 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You still haven't explained how anybody can "negotiate peace" with terrorists who are bent on wiping you off the map.

 You can't.

25 minutes ago, blackbird said:

How you think the terrorist organizations are suddenly going to disappear because somebody signs a peace deal on a piece of paper?  How do you think they can be trusted?

 Why would you want to sign with Hamas when it's Palestine you need to deal with?

[blackbird]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

 Why would you want to sign with Hamas when it's Palestine you need to deal with?

The word Palestine refers to a region or area.  If you want to refer to a people such as non-Israeli people living in the area, you have to state explicitly which people you mean.  I assume you mean Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.

The problem is many of those people are heavily under the influence of the extremists/terrorists and so it becomes very difficult to find anyone who speaks for them as a whole or anyone who has the authority over all of them.  Right now in the Gaza strip, Hamas have been the rulers.  

Edited October 29, 2023 by blackbird

[eyeball]

48 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The word Palestine refers to a region or area.  If you want to refer to a people such as non-Israeli people living in the area, you have to state explicitly which people you mean.  I assume you mean Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.

I mean all the Palestinians who were given to understand in no uncertain terms their homelands would not be turned into Israel and that they would not be subjugated by it.

54 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The problem is many of those people are heavily under the influence of the extremists/terrorists and so it becomes very difficult to find anyone who speaks for them as a whole or anyone who has the authority over all of them.  Right now in the Gaza strip, Hamas have been the rulers.  

Right now Israel is governed by the most hard-core right-wing conservative in its history. 23 years ago it was different. Maybe in another 23 years conditions will be better. You could always pray for that couldn't you? 

[CITIZEN_2015]

16 hours ago, Army Guy said:

This is how modern warfare is practiced, one of the military objectives of any army is to limit the needless deaths of your soldiers, by using aircraft and arty to soften enemy positions is how you do that, it is going to save lives.......I keep saying that HAMAS continues to hide among the population, it is what terrorist do. They will use these strikes as a propaganda tool, they want the world to see dead bodies....thats why they launch rockets next to schools or apartment buildings...to get people like you on their side....Do you feel used yet...

You and many others on here seem to think that killing civilians is murder...inter national law, Geneva conventions clearly state what is or can not be targeted, by Hamas using these places to conduct military's operations , ie storing rockets, launching rocket attacks, conducting terrorist attacks , puts all of that null and void....Israel can conduct strikes on these targets legally. They the Palestinians either refuse to leave or they are being forced to stay, either way HAMAS is reasonable for their deaths... 

So if a criminal is hiding in a crowded shopping center or taking hundreds hostage, it is by the same token all right for the law enforcement officers to burst into the center and start shooting with machine guns and grenades into crowded people either trapped by gunman or taken hostage killing several hundred women and children as well as the gunman?

[CITIZEN_2015]

16 hours ago, Army Guy said:

 

If you think that ethic cleansing was a one side thing your wrong, both sides used it to their advantage...also terrorist attacks made early were also used by both sides...So this whole thing that Israel is the only true terrorist state here is false.

Muslim forces did not want Jews to have a state on what they called Muslim lands, you'll find that brought up several times in the source,  i know wiki is not the best source but their are not many sources that are not bias, written from one perspective.

 

The Second regiment of Yarmouk, under the orders of Adib Shishakli[55] entered Galilee via Lebanon on the night of 11–12 January. The battalion passed through Safed and then settled in the village of Sasa. A third of the regiment's fighters were Palestinian Arabs, and a quarter were Syrian.

The 1st Yarmouk regiment, commanded by Muhammad Tzafa, entered Palestine on the night of 20–21 January, via the Bridge of Damia from Jordan and dispersed around Samaria, where it established its HQ, in the Northern Samarian city of Tubas. The regiment was composed chiefly of Palestinian Arabs and Iraqis.

On 14 January, Abd al-Qadir himself commanded and took part in an attack against Kfar Etzion, in which 1,000 Palestinian Arab combatants were involved.

 Many other examples of thousands of Palestinians where involved in many other units ..

 

1947–1948 civil war in Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia

So based on your post both sides terrorized each other. That is what I have been saying all along that both Hamas and state of Israel are guilty for killing women and children but a few people attacked me saying that what I should say is that killing Palestinian women and children is self defense by Israel but killing Israeli civilians only was murder. Both sides are evil. This is what I say and most of the world agrees. Look at the scale of recent demonstrations against Israel's actions in Gaza. The entire downtowns of Capital cities were full of protesting people, People cannot sit idle when so many defenseless women and children are being murdered by one side. THIS IS GENOCIDE.

Edited October 29, 2023 by CITIZEN_2015

[blackbird]

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

Why would you want to sign with Hamas when it's Palestine you need to deal with?

There have been hundreds of large empires throughout history, and likely thousands of countries that come and go.  So tell me how you decided Israel is not a legitimate state and that Palestinians should have their own country.  Since they never had their own country and there is no such country, where would it be?  Why should Israel agree to anything that would threaten its own security or existence?

Canada was once part of the British Empire.   It was British North America.  Like every other empire in the world, it was conquered and colonized.  The British Empire existed around the world and the sun never set on some part of it.  Do you think the British asked permission to establish their empire?

Do you think the British should now pay compensation to all the former parts of the colonial empire they once had?  Why should Canadians be expected to pay compensation for living on land the natives now claim as their traditional territory which can extend for thousands of square kilometers according to some native groups or hereditary chiefs? 

I think you see the connection in your thinking to the middle east.  You think because some Palestinians are descendants of previous people who lived on the land, that somehow that now makes it their land and Israel should just surrender to these demands and get out. 

You seem to automatically believe if there is a perceived underdog, the stronger country or people should be blamed and made to pay for their wrong.  That is very simplistic thinking and is not how the world works.  It is a Marxist idea.  You want to somehow share everything in the world equally with everyone.  You must be thoroughly brainwashed with Marxism.  I would think you view the world through the same lens in your own backyard and area.  This is true Marxist ideology and is a key part of NDP Socialist thinking or ideology.  It is a false god.

God created all men equal but he did not create every man equal in possessions, property or money.  So what does being created equal mean then?  I think it means we are created in God's image and have the right to life.  Life is sacred.  That is why abortion is wrong, MAID is wrong, and murder is wrong.  Everyone's life is sacred and their right to life should be respected fully.  That includes the unborn.  So abortion is killing a human and is therefore wrong.

Everyone is born into a different circumstances.  There is no equality in wealth, property, influence, intelligence, etc..  There is no guarantee that everyone will receive the same share of material things in this world.  God has a major commandment: " thou shalt not steal"  God also forbade coveting other people's property or wealth.  Marxism is the stealing of other people's property or wealth or whatever they have to spread around.  That is why it is evil.

However, God said thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.  So charity is important.  God taught man to give to those in need.  This means individual charity.  We are to help those in need.  It does not mean government-controlled Marxism or Socialism, i.e. wealth redistribution.  Charity is an individual thing and must be done freely and willingly by individuals.

Edited October 29, 2023 by blackbird

[eyeball]

14 minutes ago, blackbird said:

So tell me how you decided Israel is not a legitimate state and that Palestinians should have their own country.

I know the difference between right and wrong.

 

15 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Do you think the British should now pay compensation to all the former parts of the colonial empire they once had? 

I doubt they could come up with the money required but they should definitely be front and center in the acknowledgment and reconciliation process that's required to untangle the mess they helped create, I also think the gold squirreled away in the Vatican should be returned to its original owners.

19 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Canada was once part of the British Empire.   It was British North America.  Like every other empire in the world, it was conquered and colonized. 

You have the official declaration of war and surrender documents? You'll need those to prove your case in court.

[eyeball]

26 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I think you see the connection in your thinking to the middle east.  You think because some Palestinians are descendants of previous people who lived on the land, that somehow that now makes it their land and Israel should just surrender to these demands and get out. 

No not surrender, negotiate. What's done is done. Israel is not going away. But why you think Palestinians should go away or submit speaks to the utter moral and ethical vacuum in which you think. You couldn't tell the difference between right and wrong if it smacked you hard between the eyes.

[blackbird]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You have the official declaration of war and surrender documents? You'll need those to prove your case in court.

Nothing needs to be written down.  There is no court that has legitimate authority to go after former empires and nations to force them to pay compensation.  That is an Orwellian or Marxist idea.

There are some exceptions.  We do have a somewhat Socialist/woke progressive Supreme Court in Canada that does sometimes make bizarre rulings.  We have Socialist governments in Canada that do view the world sometimes through a Marxist lens.  There are many people who have created their own manmade religion of Marxist slant and think the state can play God.

[blackbird]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No not surrender, negotiate. What's done is done. Israel is not going away. But why you think Palestinians should go away or submit speaks to the utter moral and ethical vacuum in which you think. You couldn't tell the difference between right and wrong if it smacked you hard between the eyes.

NO, I at least have a basis for my moral views, that is the Bible, which is God's word.  You on the other hand, have no basis for morality.  You have no foundation.  You think your own mind is the judge and because that creates a vacuum in your mind, you suck in Marxist ideology, Socialist ideology or whatever seems reasonable in your own thinking.  So your idea of right and wrong is totally different and contrary to historic right and wrong based on Judeo-Christian culture and religious beliefs/Bible.  This is easily proven by your comments.

Edited October 29, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

But why you think Palestinians should go away or submit speaks to the utter moral and ethical vacuum

No, I never said that.  I do not believe in terrorism or violence against Israeli people.  Nothing justifies it.  How many Palestinians believe Israel has a right to exist?  What percentage?  You can't force them to live in peace if they are not willing to do so.  The problem is many follow the religion of peace so there will be no peace.