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Posted
9 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

there is nothing in the 1949 Washington Treaty mentioning the Soviet Union

the treaty instead invokes a North Atlantic Security Zone

with NATO as the guarantors of collective security therein, against any & all threats

...

Dougie, this is bureaucratic bafflegab.

NATO was designed to restrict the Soviet Union. (Correctly in my opinion.)

Posted
3 hours ago, Army Guy said:

At some point in time someone is going to call out all the free loaders to which Canada seems to be the leader off...and Kick us out of the alliances we have joined, Lets not forget that all of these alliances have rules and policies very few of them we are following.. In fact we actually taunt them to their faces and say F*uck you we are not playing that game....we don't deserve that protection you say we depend on...

Canadians should be disgusted at how we act on the international front...we would be the first nation to call out  any nation that did the same....everything in this country is broken including the people...we are nothing more than spoiled children, and one day dads going put his foot down...

Disagree.

Our country is not broken. We Canadians get along - we avoid wars. We compromise. We go along to get along.

This is not survival.

We Canadians compromise. We get along. This is the secret to Canada.

Posted
15 hours ago, August1991 said:

Disagree.

Our country is not broken. We Canadians get along - we avoid wars. We compromise. We go along to get along.

This is not survival.

We Canadians compromise. We get along. This is the secret to Canada.

It's OK it is your right to have another opinion, this country has never been so divided in it's history.

We don't get along, Quebec has a long standing riff with ROC and is not even a have a signature on the constitution.. 

Alberta/ Sask also having major issues with the federal government and has it own separation movement.

Every major federal department is vastly under funded, under manned, and can not perform its function, just look at passport offices, post office, immigration, Military, Veteran affairs, RCMP Coast Guard, CSIS, CRA, the list goes on and on...have you been asleep for the last 8 years

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We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.

Posted
18 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

yes, guarding CF-18's which were not under any threat

guarding Iraqi prisoners already captured by the Americans

clearing UXO after the war was over

Canada none the less did not participate in Operation Desert Storm with the allies meaningfully

even the CF-18's did nothing of consequence

since they didn't have any bombs to drop

they flew "sweep & escort" for American B-52's,

pointless when the Iraqi Air Force had already been wiped out

Does not matter if they were engaged like the rest of the coalition, the fact remains they did take part, and played a roll , a small roll, but at the time it was all we could play, Iraqi forces had much better equipment than we did, Canadian ground forces would have been a huge liability considering the equipment we had, outdated Leo I MBT, M113 APC's made in the 50's.

  • Like 1

We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.

Posted
17 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I agree totally. Our defence policy is an embarrassment.

Not just our defense policy, our entire foreign policy, everything we do on the inter national front...lets throw in most items we do here at home as well. This entire liberal government over the last 8 years has been a stain on our nation...

We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.

Posted
3 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Does not matter if they were engaged like the rest of the coalition, the fact remains they did take part, and played a roll , a small roll, but at the time it was all we could play, Iraqi forces had much better equipment than we did, Canadian ground forces would have been a huge liability considering the equipment we had, outdated Leo I MBT, M113 APC's made in the 50's.

America offered to equip 4 CMBG with M1 Abrams for $1 each, just to try to get Canada to join the fight

but the GoC refused the offer

the Syrians and Egyptians fought alongside the Americans with T-72's

the Marines went to war with M60 and AAV7

the idea that Canada was too poorly equipped to participate is nonsense

Posted

Sorry Dougie there is a lot of myths about they US offering Canada military equipment, a cite would make me a believer...

Syrians did run T-72's But Egyptians were running M-1A1 at the time along with M-60A3 in their reserve...

M1A1 tank coproduction program in Egypt - Wikipedia

List of equipment of the Egyptian Army - Wikipedia

US marines did initially bring over their M-60A3, but borrowed 60 M-1A1 off the army to operate for the war...

TAB F -- DU Use in the Gulf War (health.mil)

Canada's Leo I was purchased in 1977, in 1993 it was 16 years old and had yet to be upgraded, the fact that in 1993           4 CMBG was closing and being shipped back to Canada, may of been a factor i don't know. That being said the Leo 1C1 was designed to take on T-62/ 64, and although we had limited night vision capabilities we had still not upgraded to better optics until 1995. And yes there where shit tones of M-113 running around, most nations were also running IFV like the bradlys, warriors, that were doing most of the heavy lifting and fighting...but our M-113 were no match for Iraqi BMP's...

Our fighting troops were second to none, one of the great benefactors of being in Germany was the training not only at section level but right up to corp's level...

Lets also remember that not all those nations you mentioned were actually placed in fighting positions, or even near the front lines populated with Iraqi military...countries like Syria, Egypt, and many more,  even the light equipped French were delegated to the flanks... Not to mention how would Canada get it's equipment down there, when everyone was scrambling to get there own shit there...planes and ships were booked up solid...Shit our F-18 were not upgraded to the latest comms so they could not talk to any of the coalition, we did not have any capability to drop anything but dumb bombs...the fact we did not even bring bombs is telling...I will say at the time were probably the best we have been equipped, once 4 Brigade was collapsed most of the good stuff was retired or sold off, or disbanded.... Look at 3 RCR it was regulated to a 10 /90 BN reserve BN most of the Reg force guys were transferred to 1 and 2 RCR...

So i think in my opinion we were not ready or equipped for high intensity warfare, and would of been getting in the way of the war effort...

A farewell to the Leopard 1 main battle tank | Canadian Army Today

  • Like 1

We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.

Posted
15 hours ago, Army Guy said:

So i think in my opinion we were not ready or equipped for high intensity warfare, and would of been getting in the way of the war effort...

either way; whether Canada is unable or unwilling to contribute to the efforts

that does not amount Canada having an alternative nor independent foreign policy

it simply amounts to Canada being the notorious free rider within the confines of American foreign policy

Posted
2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

either way; whether Canada is unable or unwilling to contribute to the efforts

that does not amount Canada having an alternative nor independent foreign policy

it simply amounts to Canada being the notorious free rider within the confines of American foreign policy

It says a lot of who we are as a people, just a bunch of free loaders...anything for a free ride...more concern about the fantasy about 1 million genders than real life concerns....hence why the absolute need for more social programs, the need to be dependent on the government for our survival... Canadians have become soft, lazy, and to demanding.... 

Not all Canadians are like this , would be unfair to those Canadians that actually do care about the nation and our future...but they are not the majority, they are the minority. We have become exactly like a bunch of spoiled rich kids..

 

 

  • Like 1

We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.

Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

It says a lot of who we are as a people, just a bunch of free loaders...anything for a free ride...more concern about the fantasy about 1 million genders than real life concerns....hence why the absolute need for more social programs, the need to be dependent on the government for our survival... Canadians have become soft, lazy, and to demanding.... 

Not all Canadians are like this , would be unfair to those Canadians that actually do care about the nation and our future...but they are not the majority, they are the minority. We have become exactly like a bunch of spoiled rich kids..

to my original point tho

only the Hegmons have foreign policies

foreign policy being a product of empire

namely the British Empire, which invented foreign policy for all intents & purposes

if you don't have an empire and you don't project power, then you don't need a foreign policy

client states such as Canada do not have their own foreign policies

client states like Canada operate within the foreign policy of the Hegemon which defends them

that being American foreign policy in Canada's case

that doesn't mean Canada does absolutely everything America wants Canada to do

but it does mean that Canada never directly opposes American foreign policy

Canada not sending troops would not get Canada punished

Canada defying American foreign policy, which would be siding with America's adversaries

Canada would get punished for that, America wouldn't tolerate open defiance

so in the case of Iraq, Canada did the absolute minimum

but Canada did not actually oppose American intervention, Canada simply opted out

but if Canada asserted an independent foreign policy

that would be inherently adversarial to Washington

and obviously Canada cannot afford to do that

but again, since Canada does not have an empire of its own

there's no need for Canada to do that

particularly when the American Hegemon does not actually impose many demands upon Canada

but if Canada actually tried to be Non Aligned

if Canada were to behave as if it was a Hegemon  onto itself ?

well then Canada would have to get smacked down for that

if you're going to be a Hegemon with its own foreign policy

you're going to need the raw power to back that up against the other Hegemons

Iraq was actually one of those countries

Saddam Hussein asserted Iraq to be the Arabian Hegemon,

in defiance of America, the Soviets & China

and that's why Iraq was crushed in the end

it's called realpolitik

Edited by Dougie93
Posted (edited)
On 9/11/2023 at 1:13 PM, Army Guy said:

It's OK it is your right to have another opinion, this country has never been so divided in it's history.

We don't get along, Quebec has a long standing riff with ROC and is not even a have a signature on the constitution.. 

Alberta/ Sask also having major issues with the federal government and has it own separation movement.

Every major federal department is vastly under funded, under manned, and can not perform its function, just look at passport offices, post office, immigration, Military, Veteran affairs, RCMP Coast Guard, CSIS, CRA, the list goes on and on...have you been asleep for the last 8 years

Disagree. Strongly.

Remember our past: -Catholic/Protestant. English/French The FLQ.

We Canadians have never lived so better together.

====

We have a bilingual federal state that has no official cultural.

 

Edited by August1991
  • 2 months later...
  • 1 year later...
Posted

In the face of international thugs like Russia, China Iran and North Korea we should disarm, abandon alliances and go picking daisies in a sunny meadow. Nothing bad can happen, right? Right?!!!

Try to find limits and boundaries, to insanity. No seriously, why shouldn't we?

If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant

Posted
On 9/2/2023 at 12:29 AM, August1991 said:

If you are curious, check any Youtube video about Nasser.

He was an Egyptian,  an Arab nationalist. He died in 1970.

More relevant: the 1956 Suez crisis and Pearson's role. 

I think you need to add a few more details between "If you are curious" and "Pearson's role." to get us across the "Canada should leave NATO" finish line. 

If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed.

If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. 

Kamala didn't get where she is because of her achievements or anything that came out of her mouth. 

Posted
2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I think you need to add a few more details between "If you are curious" and "Pearson's role." to get us across the "Canada should leave NATO" finish line. 

We various Canadians get along.

This current world - the 2020s - needs people like Canadians; you know, Newfoundlanders. Quebecers. Albertans. People who want to get along.

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Posted (edited)

The only path forward is to start behaving like a middle power rich in resources and highly skilled and educated citizens rather than as a colonial dependent.  We can’t go back to Britain because Britain is recreating the basket case it left in Europe through Brexit.  Starmer is totally under the heel of the Davos consensus, perhaps more than France.  The US is forcing countries to align with the current Republican agenda through economic pressure, not a bad thing if it wasn’t for the reality that Trump will put American economic interests ahead of ours and is willing to do some temporary damage to his own economy for what he thinks will create longer term gains.

I think Canada has to start acting as though we can’t count on our traditional friends.  It means beefing up the military, diversifying our trade, and doing more in-house rather than relying on imports.  We’re at a size where we can be a market for our own products rather than relying on exports.  It’s not like we’re enjoying big trade surpluses anyway.  It means streamlining regulations and reducing taxes.

The ridiculous carbon tax of self destruction and cap of our energy production that boosts dirty Chinese energy production has to end.  It means telling the Americans, maybe we’ll send our oil and energy elsewhere if you want to screw us on tariffs.  Trudeau was a naive fool not to take advantage of German natural gas demand by exporting LNG.  We need to stop electing globalist communists.

Edited by Zeitgeist
Posted
9 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

  We can’t go back to Britain because Britain is recreating the basket case it left in Europe through Brexit. 

British North Americans never came from the United Kingdom in the first place

the United Empire Loyalists came from from Pennsylvania

Westminster Parliamentary Supremacy itself is not a British invention

William Prince of Orange was Dutch

HM The King is not even English, he's a German Greek

this is what Canadians fundamentally misunderstand

British is not a place, British is not race

Britannia was founded by the Romans in 43 BC

Canadians misguided impulse to erase their own origins

has simply resulted in Canada being overrun by the American Fenians in the end

Posted
22 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think Canada has to start acting as though we can’t count on our traditional friends. 

MAGA Republicans are your only friends

we only seek to liberate you from the tyrannical rule

of the Chinese Communist sympathizing Laurentian Elites

Anglo-American Empire of Liberty ; forged in the fires of the Second World War

God bless America, God save the King

 

  • Haha 1
Posted
38 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 diversifying our trade,

you are misreading the historical terrain

Globalization is dead

the End of History is over

the world is retrenching into Spheres of Influence by said default

Canada can never escape Fortress America therein

thus the only rational strategy is to become even more aligned with America,  not less

Canada simply cannot afford to be caught in a no man's land between the Great Powers

Posted
3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Some King....

as if Canadians defend & uphold their own King anymore ?

only America defends the British Crown

while disloyal Canada simply enables the Chinese Communists in Beijing

when we came back to the glen, winter was turnin'

our goods lay in the snow,  and our houses were burnin'

Posted
1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

  It means beefing up the military

but after decades of neglect, in order to reach the NATO 2% threshold

Canada would immediately have to spend $80 billion CAD per year on DND

Canada couldn't even do it if it wanted to, Ottawa simply lacks the state capacity

thus Canada will have to figure out some other way to appease MAGA

realistically, Canada will be forced to make concessions on trade

paying its defence bills at the border to ensure access

rendering unto American Caesar by default

 

Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

but after decades of neglect, in order to reach the NATO 2% threshold

Canada would immediately have to spend $80 billion CAD per year on DND

Canada couldn't even do it if it wanted to, Ottawa simply lacks the state capacity

thus Canada will have to figure out some other way to appease MAGA

realistically, Canada will be forced to make concessions on trade

paying its defence bills at the border to ensure access

rendering unto American Caesar by default

 

Well if keeping out fentanyl and illegals is the price of tariff removal, I’m all for it.  I generally like the way America is tilting, and I’d like to think that good times lay ahead for Canada through sensible policy and cooperation.  We’ve done it before.  This Canadian government thinks nothing of spending billions in debt to pay for programs we can’t afford and that don’t work. Daycare and the latest $250 cheque vote buy are just the latest examples.  I know your position on what we should procure militarily and I pretty much agree.  Trudeau running cap in hand looks weak though.  I understand it because he’s so on the ropes politically, but he really needs to go down in an election asap.

Canada does have serious heft in its energy exports and what we buy from the US.  Many people forget that the Revolution barely happened in the northeastern states, and there were parts of Nova Scotia that considered joining the Revolution.  Our economies are tremendously integrated.  Quebec Hydro turns on the lights in NYC. Canada provides most of America’s uranium and oil.  If Trump levies the 25% tariff after we make reasonable border assurances, Canada should reconsider its energy supply guarantees in USMCA, because Canada became an energy superpower after that NAFTA provision which was left in the latest trade agreement.  There’s no shortage of customers worldwide.  Ontario could use cheaper fuel.  I just think it’s important to remember that we also hold important assets in the negotiation.  Canada isn’t the small market it was when NAFTA was first settled.  At 40 million people we should be looking at saving some of our resources for ourselves and countries that will be good trade partners.   Would it be easier trading with the US?  Of course.  But you know as I do that when Canada gets behind a cause it can move mountains.  We did have a great power military for a short while.  It’s all about priorities.  When one door closes, usually another opens.

Also, we should be adding to any negotiations that we don’t want US illegals fleeing the coming deportations pouring through our borders.  We need assurances on that front.  Same goes for illegal firearms.  

Edited by Zeitgeist

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