The election prospects

[Queenmandy85]

12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Yes - it would seem justin can't even keep his OWN house in order, never mind the country's  

I don't think you can blame him for the rats and mold the Harpers left behind...or the Pearsons for that matter. ?

[myata]

4 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

What would you like to see the government accomplish that it is not attempting to do already, given the limitations they face?

A fair and accurate representation of citizens interests. I think in this age, a democracy cannot pretend to exist without it. The time to draw this line. It can be post-colonial self-governing dominion, but no: not a modern democracy. A ritual does not make a democracy. It is much, much more.

Edited August 29, 2023 by myata

[CdnFox]

8 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I don't think you can blame him for the rats and mold the Harpers left behind...or the Pearsons for that matter. ?

You mean the ones he inherited from Chretien? Sure we can  - he has been quoted as saying the mansion was breaking down even when he lived there  as a  child.  So it's the entire family who has neglected their duties

His mother was famous for pointing out what a sad state it was in, and yet his daddy did nothing and neither has he.

A “large, cold, grey mansion,” is how the former wife of prime minister Pierre Trudeau described the place in her 1979 memoir, Beyond Reason, which chronicled the claustrophobia of life in the heavily guarded 34-room house. She was more caustic this summer, calling it the “crown jewel of the federal penitentiary system”   LOL

At least harper and chretien could say they had no idea it was that bad before becoming PM.  Justin and family were well aware but he had no plans to fix it

Like i said - can't even keep his own house in order, even when it's the 'ancestral home"    (and YOU were the one who brought it up!)

[myata]

The conclusion: the entrenched pseudo parties can defend the status quo only to the detriment of democracy. A modern functional democracy cannot exist and function without fair and accurate representation of citizens views and interests.

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, myata said:

The Great Leader feeds, buys loyalty of "MP"

If that is the kind of MP you have, just remember, you hired her. It is on you and me.

1 hour ago, myata said:

A fair and accurate representation of citizens interests.

But what interests are not being represented?

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, myata said:

The conclusion: the entrenched pseudo parties can defend the status quo only to the detriment of democracy. A modern functional democracy cannot exist and function without fair and accurate representation of citizens views and interests.

You are still avoiding answering the question, what views of the voters are not being represented. There are four groups of MP's in Parliament who represent the views and interests of our diverse population. What are they missing?

On a side note, you seem to be fixated on "democracy." Democracy is a great system of government if the voters are well educated. That isn't quite the case in Canada. Our voters, myself included, are demonstrably weak in the fields that matter, math, science, economics and geography. MP's and Ministers have access to that kind of expertise, but the voters who select the MP's do not. Why do some voters resist the measures put in place to deal with the pandemic or climate change? Ignorance. Voters are smart, but we lack the education to make informed decisions.

We are fortunate in Canada because every voter has the opportunity to participate in the nomination and election process. When a voter doesn't bother to participate, then they deserve the result if they don't like it. 

[myata]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

But what interests are not being represented?

None, zero are represented and that is the reality not some fancy picture book. You have a system that represents only its own interests: to stay at the trough forever without any real challenge, and pay itself out of citizens pocket as much as it wants no questions asked. Pretending that it represents, or can, even theoretically a modern society with its rich and diverse interests is such a grotesque bull that it begins approaching the level of Russia and China.

We have to see the real choice and the real numbers, only then we would know the true worth of inflated cheeks and pumped chests. 33%, 42% give me a break and don't be ridiculous, please.

Edited August 29, 2023 by myata

[Queenmandy85]

6 minutes ago, myata said:

None, zero are represented and that is the reality not some fancy picture book. You have a system that represents only its own interests: to stay at the trough forever without any real challenge, and pay itself out of citizens pocket as much as it wants no questions asked. Pretending that it represents, or can, even theoretically a modern society with its rich and diverse interest is such a grotesque bull that it begins to reach the level of Russia and China.

We have to see the real choice and the real numbers, only then we would know the true worth of inflated cheeks and pumped chests. 33%, 42% give me a break, go to ***k and don't be ridiculous, please.

 

I asked what interests are NOT being represented. You still haven't answered that question. What specific issue is it that you wish to be addressed?

[myata]

3 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I asked what interests are NOT being represented.

Well, you've got it: all. None of legitimate interests of the society can be represented with this system because it tries to convert them into its own thirst and quest for power.

5 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

What specific issue is it that you wish to be addressed?

Transparency and accountability in federal and provincial governments. Many others. In each election or almost, there will be specific issues that will need an open and honest discussion in the society that is simply not possible in the status quo system.

[myata]

20 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

are NOT being represented.

You may have some of your interests represented maybe but only by US and through US only. Nope. Doesn't work. Doesn't make any sense.

"You" don't have to be in the picture, thank you though. I don't need you there and never asked for you being there. I have the right to vote for who I choose and have my choice represented accurately and fairly. Nothing short of.

Edited August 29, 2023 by myata

[Queenmandy85]

On 8/24/2023 at 2:14 PM, eyeball said:

That's not the red tape that's preventing homes from being built. The regulations that need to be addressed are the ones that protect nimby's from density and new neighbours.

Sorry, I missed addressing this sooner. Would you have the government run roughshod over the interests of voters who don't want increased density and new neighbours in their neighbourhood. I am not saying they are right to feel that way, but they do vote and they do have rights. Government should be sensitive to them.

[Queenmandy85]

34 minutes ago, myata said:

You may have some of your interests represented maybe but only by US and through US only. Nope. Doesn't work. Doesn't make any sense.

"You" don't have to be in the picture, thank you though. I don't need you there and never asked for you being there. I have the right to vote for who I choose and have my choice represented accurately and fairly. Nothing short of.

I guess I'm thick. I still don't understand what it is that you want government to do. In the past, you have said, if I understand correctly, that you refuse to exersise your right to select one of your neighbours to sit in Parliament. Yet, you complain about the people who have been selected by your neighbours to sit in Parliament on you behalf. You can't have it both ways. I don't have a problem if you are happy to let other peope do all the heavy lifting for you, but it is unfair to complain about the result if you don't want to make the effort.

Canada is pretty close to being a democracy. We have the opportunity to nominate our neighbours, people we know and trust. We have the means to see them elected. In Canada, your candidate doesn't need to be rich to be elected. If you chose her carefully, donations will cover the campaign expenses. The key is to choose a candidate of merit, who will attract support and that means volunteers to identify the vote and get out the vote. It isn't rocket science. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Queenmandy85

[eyeball]

21 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Sorry, I missed addressing this sooner. Would you have the government run roughshod over the interests of voters who don't want increased density and new neighbours in their neighbourhood. I am not saying they are right to feel that way, but they do vote and they do have rights. Government should be sensitive to them.

How about a reduction in their property taxes or incentives for subdividing, adding rental units etc.

That said, their property taxes will likely only go up as their value goes up.

In any case planners better be thinking about greater density in new developments if we're serious about more than doubling our population.

[Queenmandy85]

51 minutes ago, myata said:

I have the right to vote for who I choose and have my choice represented accurately and fairly. Nothing short of.

Yes, but voting is only a part of your obligations. We need to participate in the recruiting of candidates, the campaign for the nomination and then the campaign in the election. After that, we need to maintain contact with whomever is elected. If your MP does not know your needs and interests, you can't expect them to deal with them. 

[Queenmandy85]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

You mean the ones he inherited from Chretien? Sure we can  - he has been quoted as saying the mansion was breaking down even when he lived there  as a  child.  So it's the entire family who has neglected their duties

His mother was famous for pointing out what a sad state it was in, and yet his daddy did nothing and neither has he.

A “large, cold, grey mansion,” is how the former wife of prime minister Pierre Trudeau described the place in her 1979 memoir, Beyond Reason, which chronicled the claustrophobia of life in the heavily guarded 34-room house. She was more caustic this summer, calling it the “crown jewel of the federal penitentiary system”   LOL

At least harper and chretien could say they had no idea it was that bad before becoming PM.  Justin and family were well aware but he had no plans to fix it

Like i said - can't even keep his own house in order, even when it's the 'ancestral home"    (and YOU were the one who brought it up!)

The story I heard was that, after becoming Prime Minister,  Mike and Marion Pearson were living in a small apartment in Ottawa crammed with all of their possessions. Pictures stored under the bed etc. A group of Liberal bigwigs were embarrassed that Canada did not have a residence for the PM, so they pushed for the acquisition of 24 Sussex. It was a dump then and it never got better because the optics of renovating it were always bad. (The old "Who does he think he is?...Flipping elitist") So we have come from a PM living in a cardbord box of an apartment to being homeless and living in the boss's shed. ?

[myata]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Yes, but voting is only a part of your obligations. We need to participate in the recruiting of candidates, the campaign for the nomination and then the campaign in the election. After that, we need to maintain contact with whomever is elected.

Absolutely, 100%. Except it's I who gets to decide how I will be doing all that, and with whom, and not you, for me. See, the difference? And for that, so that it would make any sense, we will need fair and accurate representation. As many parties as citizens need, not told they could have; all votes counted and none, thrown away.

See, the difference?

Edited August 29, 2023 by myata

[ExFlyer]

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

You mean the ones he inherited from Chretien? Sure we can  - he has been quoted as saying the mansion was breaking down even when he lived there  as a  child.  So it's the entire family who has neglected their duties

His mother was famous for pointing out what a sad state it was in, and yet his daddy did nothing and neither has he.

A “large, cold, grey mansion,” is how the former wife of prime minister Pierre Trudeau described the place in her 1979 memoir, Beyond Reason, which chronicled the claustrophobia of life in the heavily guarded 34-room house. She was more caustic this summer, calling it the “crown jewel of the federal penitentiary system”   LOL

At least harper and chretien could say they had no idea it was that bad before becoming PM.  Justin and family were well aware but he had no plans to fix it

Like i said - can't even keep his own house in order, even when it's the 'ancestral home"    (and YOU were the one who brought it up!)

Every PM, liberal and conservative since 1950 has done some sort of renovations to 24 Sussex. Some more, some less but they are all culpable for the state of the house.

Yes, Trudeau Sr did lots but Mulroneys wife was the biggest spender for her luxurious lifestyle. "Mulroney came under fire for “Gucci-gate,” revelations that the Progressive Conservative party spent $308,000 on 24 Sussex and Harrington Lake, the prime minister’s country home. The details—12 m of closets for 100 pairs of shoes, leopard-print carpet, $100-a-role wallpaper —summoned very Canadian “Who do you think you are?” clucking. Liberal MP Don Boudria spoke of “Imelda Marcos-like closets”

So, no party is guilt free. Trudeau Jr just refused to move it.

By the way, just to sort of put things in perspective, we are not talking about a Little House on the Rideau, it is a 24 room, 12,000 sq ft mansion, not including pools and grounds etc.

Been in it once....looked nice but I was not checking out the condition.

https://macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/how-the-pms-residence-became-a-nightmare-at-24-sussex/

Edited August 29, 2023 by ExFlyer

[Queenmandy85]

49 minutes ago, myata said:

Absolutely, 100%. Except it's I who gets to decide how I will be doing all that, and with whom, and not you, for me.

That is what I said. It is you who has to decide, not me.

 

50 minutes ago, myata said:

And for that, so that it would make any sense, we will need fair and accurate representation. As many parties as citizens need, not told they could have; all votes counted and none, thrown away.

You already have that. All the votes are counted, and none thrown away. If you are more into parties rather than candidates, there are 16 registered federal political parties in Canada and others which are not registered. I am sure any one of them would happily welcome your support and may even nominate you as a candidate. It is you who decides whom you wish to support and go out door-knocking for.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The story I heard was that, after becoming Prime Minister,  Mike and Marion Pearson were living in a small apartment in Ottawa crammed with all of their possessions. Pictures stored under the bed etc. A group of Liberal bigwigs were embarrassed that Canada did not have a residence for the PM, so they pushed for the acquisition of 24 Sussex. It was a dump then and it never got better because the optics of renovating it were always bad. (The old "Who does he think he is?...Flipping elitist") So we have come from a PM living in a cardbord box of an apartment to being homeless and living in the boss's shed. ?

Sounds about right actually

[Queenmandy85]

I stand corrected on one point (it probably should be one of hundreds ?). 24 Sussex was purchased for Prime Minister St. Laurent, not Mike Pearson.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Queenmandy85

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I stand corrected on one point (it probably should be one of hundreds ?). 24 Sussex was purchased for Prime Minister St. Laurent, not Mike Pearson.

Interesting but not really germaine anyway.  I don't think it's reasonably repairable. Better to scrap it, burn it and the rats to the ground, start again

[myata]

56 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

It is you who has to decide, not me.

No you don't understand. No you cannot limit my choice by effectively allowing only two pseudo-parties by funny tweaking with representation (below).

57 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

All the votes are counted, and none thrown away.

No you cannot understand? How many votes were given for each party? Does it look anything like your funny parody of "representation"? Why does it have to be this way, who said so?

But wait, there's more. You cannot, not with a grain of credibility, claim that if the representation was indeed fair and accurate, your "parties" would get anything even remotely close to what they boast now. Because it never happened. Never in the entire proud history have you competed with other, real parties on an honest and fair basis. Always, every single time it was for the least of the bad and if not one then the other. Do you understand that? How else can be explained?

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, myata said:

No you don't understand. No you cannot limit my choice by effectively allowing only two pseudo-parties by funny tweaking with representation

You are right. I do not understand how I limited your choice. You do not give specific examples of what you want. 

 

1 hour ago, myata said:

Never in the entire proud history have you competed with other, real parties on an honest and fair basis.

Which parties are you referring to? How were they denied an honest and fair opportunity?

Please take pity on this old man and answer as though you are speaking to a child. Even when I was younger, I wasn't the sharpest knive in the drawer.

[Queenmandy85]

6 hours ago, myata said:

Transparency and accountability in federal and provincial governments. Many others. In each election or almost, there will be specific issues that will need an open and honest discussion in the society that is simply not possible in the status quo system.

This is a specific example Thank you. You should ask yourself if you are comfortable in your professional life offering transparency in your dealings? Is the person you are negociating with comforable doing that?  When you are recruiting someone to run in your riding in the next election, it is something you will want your candidate to work towards.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Queenmandy85

[myata]

31 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You should ask yourself if you are comfortable in your professional life offering transparency in your dealings

Sure. My professional field operates on openness and critical questioning. Only proposals that pass open critical questioning are considered viable. And in managing public matters at someone else's expense it is not just a choice but an absolute must.