GUNS SAVE LIVES EVERY YEAR

reason10 · July 17, 2023

https://fee.org/articles/guns-prevent-thousands-of-crimes-every-day-research-show/

Guns Prevent Thousands of Crimes Every Day, Research Shows

shotgunner_woman.jpg?anchor=center&mode=

Gun Effectiveness

I checked online and found some fascinating numbers. A good website with footnotes and references to authoritative sources is GunFacts.info. There I learned the following:

Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year, or 6,849 every day. Most often, the gun is never fired, and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed.
Every year, 400,000 life-threatening violent crimes are prevented using firearms.
60 percent of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. Forty percent of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed.
Felons report that they avoid entering houses where people are at home because they fear being shot.
Fewer than 1 percent of firearms are used in the commission of a crime.

If you doubt the objectivity of the site above, it’s worth pointing out that the Center for Disease Control, in a report ordered by President Obama in 2012 following the Sandy Hook Massacre, estimated that the number of crimes prevented by guns could be even higher—as many as 3 million annually, or some 8,200 every day.

https://www.liberty.edu/champion/2021/04/opinion-guns-save-lives-and-should-not-be-taken-away/

Opinion: Guns Save Lives And Should Not Be Taken Away

It is estimated that 1,029,615 individuals use guns every year in self-defense, excluding those in the police force and the military.

Of those people, 162,000 said they “almost certainly would have been killed” without their firearm to protect them.

To put it in perspective, the average homicide gun-related death per year is 11,208.

https://datavisualizations.heritage.org/firearms/defensive-gun-uses-in-the-us/

Defensive Gun Uses in the U.S.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, almost every major study on defensive gun use has found that Americans use their firearms defensively between 500,000 and 3 million times each year. There’s good reason to believe that most defensive gun uses are never reported to law enforcement, much less picked up by local or national media outlets.

And apparently the CDC (who has killed more people than all the guns in history could have accomplished) wants to goose step the facts away from the public.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cdc-removed-stats-defensive-gun-use-pressure-gun-control-activists-report

CDC removed stats on defensive gun use over pressure from gun control activists:

report

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reportedly removed statistics on defensive gun use in the U.S. following pressure from gun control advocates.

The stats sourced from a CDC-commissioned study finding that instances of defensive gun use occur between 60,000 and 2.5 million times per year. References to that study were deleted from the site following private meetings with gun control advocates in 2021, emails obtained and published by The Reload show.

"[T]hat 2.5 Million number needs to be killed, buried, dug up, killed again and buried again," Mark Bryant, executive director of the Gun Violence Archive, wrote to the CDC in one of the emails. "It is highly misleading, is used out of context and I honestly believe it has zero value — even as an outlier point in honest DGU discussions."

Boys and girls, guns SAVE LIVES.

If you don't like guns, DON'T BUY THEM.

But your neighbor's ownership of a gun is NONE OF YOUR FCKING BUSINESS!

CdnFox · July 17, 2023

1 minute ago, reason10 said:

https://fee.org/articles/guns-prevent-thousands-of-crimes-every-day-research-show/

Guns Prevent Thousands of Crimes Every Day, Research Shows

Gun Effectiveness

I checked online and found some fascinating numbers. A good website with footnotes and references to authoritative sources is GunFacts.info. There I learned the following:

Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year, or 6,849 every day. Most often, the gun is never fired, and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed.

Every year, 400,000 life-threatening violent crimes are prevented using firearms.

60 percent of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. Forty percent of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed.

Felons report that they avoid entering houses where people are at home because they fear being shot.

Fewer than 1 percent of firearms are used in the commission of a crime.

If you doubt the objectivity of the site above, it’s worth pointing out that the Center for Disease Control, in a report ordered by President Obama in 2012 following the Sandy Hook Massacre, estimated that the number of crimes prevented by guns could be even higher—as many as 3 million annually, or some 8,200 every day.

https://www.liberty.edu/champion/2021/04/opinion-guns-save-lives-and-should-not-be-taken-away/

Opinion: Guns Save Lives And Should Not Be Taken Away

It is estimated that 1,029,615 individuals use guns every year in self-defense, excluding those in the police force and the military.

Of those people, 162,000 said they “almost certainly would have been killed” without their firearm to protect them.

To put it in perspective, the average homicide gun-related death per year is 11,208.

https://datavisualizations.heritage.org/firearms/defensive-gun-uses-in-the-us/

Defensive Gun Uses in the U.S.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, almost every major study on defensive gun use has found that Americans use their firearms defensively between 500,000 and 3 million times each year. There’s good reason to believe that most defensive gun uses are never reported to law enforcement, much less picked up by local or national media outlets.

And apparently the CDC (who has killed more people than all the guns in history could have accomplished) wants to goose step the facts away from the public.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cdc-removed-stats-defensive-gun-use-pressure-gun-control-activists-report

CDC removed stats on defensive gun use over pressure from gun control activists:

report

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reportedly removed statistics on defensive gun use in the U.S. following pressure from gun control advocates.

The stats sourced from a CDC-commissioned study finding that instances of defensive gun use occur between 60,000 and 2.5 million times per year. References to that study were deleted from the site following private meetings with gun control advocates in 2021, emails obtained and published by The Reload show.

"[T]hat 2.5 Million number needs to be killed, buried, dug up, killed again and buried again," Mark Bryant, executive director of the Gun Violence Archive, wrote to the CDC in one of the emails. "It is highly misleading, is used out of context and I honestly believe it has zero value — even as an outlier point in honest DGU discussions."

Boys and girls, guns SAVE LIVES.

If you don't like guns, DON'T BUY THEM.

But your neighbor's ownership of a gun is NONE OF YOUR FCKING BUSINESS!

Well of course they do. And that's not including the defensive use in some parts of the land for animals. Not to mention protection of property.

But lets get real - even if the left believed that one hundred percent, even if they KNEW without doubt it would mean MORE lives would be lost over time, they still would demand we ban all guns.

You can't have a "reasonable debate" with a quasi-religious zealot.

WestCanMan · July 17, 2023

19 minutes ago, reason10 said:

Every year, 400,000 life-threatening violent crimes are prevented using firearms.

Now it makes sense that leftards hate them.

reason10 · July 17, 2023

48 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Well of course they do. And that's not including the defensive use in some parts of the land for animals. Not to mention protection of property.

But lets get real - even if the left believed that one hundred percent, even if they KNEW without doubt it would mean MORE lives would be lost over time, they still would demand we ban all guns.

You can't have a "reasonable debate" with a quasi-religious zealot.

And socialist totalitarianism is a RELIGION to these goose steppers.

CdnFox · July 17, 2023

45 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Now it makes sense that leftards hate them.

You can't get the criminals to vote for you if someone's shot them already

WestCanMan · July 17, 2023

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

You can't get the criminals to vote for you if someone's shot them already

Honestly, I wonder what % of self-defence shootings are from a Republican voter shooting a Dem voter.

I bet that Dem voters account for about 95% of people shot in self-defence.

Rebound · July 17, 2023

How many lives are saved because the gun held 100 rounds? How many lives saved because the gun was an AR-15 rifle and not a handgun?

WestCanMan · July 17, 2023

46 minutes ago, Rebound said:

How many lives are saved because the gun held 100 rounds?

No one has an AR with 100 rnds ?.

30-rnd mags are the biggest that you'll ever encounter in your lifetime, and that's only in the US.

You can get 100-rnd mags for a rimfire rifle, like a .22, but no one uses .22s for rampages. They're basically for defending yourself from "The attack of the pop cans".

Quote

How many lives saved because the gun was an AR-15 rifle and not a handgun?

AR-15s are much safer in the general population because they're not ideal "crime guns".

A handgun is only your first choice when you need to conceal it.

EG, conceal handgun, go in to crime location, commit crime, conceal handgun, leave.

It's hard to look inconspicuous with an AR-15 strapped across your back, or walking down 5th ave with a chainsaw. Especially a bloody chainsaw. Folks tend to notice.

If this guy was walking down the street, whistling a happy tune, would you notice anything unusual about him?

CdnFox · July 17, 2023

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

No one has an AR with 100 rnds ?

Actually i think they still do make bricks (100 round drum mags) in the states for the ar's, maybe a few other models.

But they are notoriously unreliable and not common at all. Nobody likes them because they misfeed all the time. It's a gimmick - something people play with at the range. it would be great if every bad guy used them - they'd spend half their time clearing blockages

SNOWFLAKE · July 17, 2023

Well lookie here, a Rightwing love fest. Notice no one by Righties are participating on this discussion? They finally have a home for their circle jerk while people looking for debate have moved on to other forums. I hope they are using hand cream.

CdnFox · July 17, 2023

2 minutes ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

Well lookie here, a Rightwing love fest. Notice no one by Righties are participating on this discussion? They finally have a home for their circle jerk while people looking for debate have moved on to other forums. I hope they are using hand cream.

ROFLMAO!!!!! - another brilliant and intellectually stimulating post by the self proclaimed "higher intellect"

You guys notice how the quality of the conversation just jumps right up when the lefties join in?

Got anything intelligent to say kiddo, or was that it?

(oh and also, rebound is a leftie. Swing and a miss kiddo )

Edited July 17, 2023 by CdnFox

SNOWFLAKE · July 17, 2023

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

ROFLMAO!!!!! - another brilliant and intellectually stimulating post by the self proclaimed "higher intellect"

You guys notice how the quality of the conversation just jumps right up when the lefties join in?

Got anything intelligent to say kiddo, or was that it?

(oh and also, rebound is a leftie. Swing and a miss kiddo )

He has largely left his site too, I should know, he has joined me where there is actually debate.

So, stop sweating, you finally got your wish where you can jerk each other off without having to deal with smart people.

WestCanMan · July 17, 2023

12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Actually i think they still do make bricks (100 round drum mags) in the states for the ar's, maybe a few other models.

But they are notoriously unreliable and not common at all. Nobody likes them because they misfeed all the time. It's a gimmick - something people play with at the range. it would be great if every bad guy used them - they'd spend half their time clearing blockages

As far as I know the debate in the US centers around 30-rnd mags. I've never heard anything about 100-rnd mags before today.

We can get 100-rnd mags for .22s here in Canada believe it or not. I have a GSG-15 that can have a 100-rnder. I'd never buy it though, a jam is much more of an inconvenience than the large mag is worth.

impartialobserver · July 17, 2023

Defensive lives saved is an interesting metric. It is an estimate and it has some large margins of error. Why? Simple... It is really hard to measure accurately. It is useful in a debate but should not be the lead metric/data point if you truly debating.

Dougie93 · July 17, 2023

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

No one has an AR with 100 rnds ?.

30-rnd mags are the biggest that you'll ever encounter in your lifetime, and that's only in the US.

BetaCo's C-Mag holds 100 rds of 5.56x45mm for the AR

WestCanMan · July 17, 2023

Just now, Dougie93 said:

BetaCo's C-Mag holds 100 rds of 5.56x45mm for the AR

I get that they exist, but can civilians really buy them anywhere?

Dougie93 · July 17, 2023

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

I get that they exist, but can civilians really buy them anywhere?

only twelve states in America have magazine capacity bans

in the other thirty eight states they are perfectly legal

WestCanMan · July 17, 2023

8 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Defensive lives saved is an interesting metric. It is an estimate and it has some large margins of error. Why? Simple... It is really hard to measure accurately. It is useful in a debate but should not be the lead metric/data point if you truly debating.

Yeah, at best you could say that "about 100,000 people feel like they would have been killed if they didn't have their gun." How can they really know for sure?

Some people think that saying the words "Donald Trump" is an attack on their life.

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

only twelve states in America have magazine capacity bans

in the other thirty eight states they are perfectly legal

OMG that's comical/scary.

I wonder why no one has ever used one for a mass shooting in the US before... Seems way easier than carrying a bunch of 30s.

Dougie93 · July 17, 2023

2 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

OMG that's comical/scary.

not really

for example, a 12 gauge slide action shotgun is perfectly legal in Canada

and since you can load by the breech, there is no magazine capacity limit

you can keep blasting away with a Remington 870 in Canada

until you run out of rounds in your rucksack

impartialobserver · July 17, 2023

8 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Yeah, at best you could say that "about 100,000 people feel like they would have been killed if they didn't have their gun." How can they really know for sure?

Some people think that saying the words "Donald Trump" is an attack on their life.

this is not like measuring how much a player scores in an NBA/NHL season. They use documented instances where the homeowner/vehicle owner/civilian files a police report or statement and they claim that the criminal stopped what they were doing because they brandished their weapon. There is no way to know for absolute sure that the only reason that they stopped was this. It is logical that they did but there are always exceptions. From there, they extrapolate to the larger population with gun rate ownership, overall criminal activity, population, income, and housing differences factored in.

Edited July 17, 2023 by impartialobserver

WestCanMan · July 17, 2023

1 minute ago, impartialobserver said:

this is not like measuring how much a player scores in an NBA/NHL season. They use documented instances where the homeowner/vehicle owner/civilian files a police report or statement and they claim that the criminal stopped what they were doing because they brandished their weapon. There is no way to know for absolute sure that the only reason that they stopped was this. It is logical that they did but there are always exceptions. From there, they extrapolate to the larger population with gun rate ownership, overall criminal activity, population, income, and housing differences.

Those people have the need to come up with a story that validates their use of a firearm though. Of course they'll say that they needed to do it.

If you look online there is no shortage of people in the States who kill their neighbours over petty disagreements. They all have "a story".

They'd have to be stupid to say "The guy was running out of my driveway with a bunch of CDs when I shot at him" (no doubt it's been done before).

impartialobserver · July 17, 2023

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

Those people have the need to come up with a story that validates their use of a firearm though. Of course they'll say that they needed to do it.

If you look online there is no shortage of people in the States who kill their neighbours over petty disagreements. They all have "a story".

They'd have to be stupid to say "The guy was running out of my driveway with a bunch of CDs when I shot at him" (no doubt it's been done before).

Its just the limits of statistics and modeling. If you use a data point that is subjective and you extrapolate.. the bias gets larger. I love data, statistics, etc.. I do it for a living. But it frequently leaves a bit to be desired.

The real oddball one is that they claim that folks in a neighborhood where gun ownership is likely but not explicitly shown/proven save lives simply because the criminal somehow discerns that the homeowner owns a gun AND is willing to use it and therefore moves on to the next home.

WestCanMan · July 17, 2023

4 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

If you use a data point that is subjective and you extrapolate.. the bias gets larger.

It's like fishing stories, but with guns and humans instead of hooks and bass.

CdnFox · July 17, 2023

50 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

As far as I know the debate in the US centers around 30-rnd mags. I've never heard anything about 100-rnd mags before today.

Because they suck But there's a few models or at least there were -a triple stack straight mag and a drum that both hit 100 rounds with 5.56.

Quote

We can get 100-rnd mags for .22s here in Canada believe it or not. I have a GSG-15 that can have a 100-rnder. I'd never buy it though, a jam is much more of an inconvenience than the large mag is worth.

Oh i've got one. Or had one - prohib'd now i believe for the ruger. And you're right - the jams aren't worth it. Fought for ages to get the thing to shoot reliably, never managed to.

And honestly for the ar's - what the hell is even the point. You can do a mag swap so fast with even a tiny amount of practice that there's zero difference in practical terms. If people want a 30 rounder they're not going to be able to kill any more people than if they have 2 x20's. It's an !diotic argument.