Document 19 Will Send Trump to Prison

[Rebound]

59 minutes ago, reason10 said:

As a substitute teacher, I occasionally have to deal with Special Ed students, all of which are smarter and more intelligent than you and the rest of your goose steppers.

This witch hunt will get Trump to a second term.

He’s going to look pretty silly addressing the nation in an orange jumpsuit. 

[robosmith]

4 hours ago, reason10 said:

As a substitute teacher, I occasionally have to deal with Special Ed students, all of which are smarter and more intelligent than you and the rest of your goose steppers.

This witch hunt will get Trump to a second term.

You and your fellow MAGA CULT members do NOT have enough votes to elect Trump. Just like in 2020. LMAO

[CdnFox]

17 hours ago, Rebound said:

Nuclear secrets kill even more.  

Name 1 person nuclear secrets have killed.

[Rebound]

18 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Name 1 person nuclear secrets have killed.

Klaus Fuchs sold our nuclear secrets to Russia, who sold them to China, who sold them to Pakistan, who sold them to India.  
 

Go look at the 50,000 names on the Vietnam Memorial. Would we have needed to fight there if the USA was the only nuclear power? 

[Rebound]

5 hours ago, reason10 said:

As a substitute teacher, I occasionally have to deal with Special Ed students, all of which are smarter and more intelligent than you and the rest of your goose steppers.

This witch hunt will get Trump to a second term.

I figured the best you can do is teach the difference between a circle and a square.  

[WestCanMan]

11 hours ago, Rebound said:

You can’t just invent what the terms mean and then declare Trump innocent.  FRD information is equivalent to “Top Secret,” except that the Nuclear Regulatory Act applies. The President by law cannot declassify FRD data.

Stop saying "declassify", that's a straw man argument. Only you're using that word. 

Quote

Formerly Restricted Data (FRD) is information removed from the Restricted Data category upon a joint determination by the Department of Energy (or antecedent agencies) and the Department of Defense that such information relates primarily to the military utilization of atomic weapons and that such information can be safeguarded adequately as classified National Security Information in the United States. For purposes of foreign dissemination, however, such information is treated in the same manner as Restricted Data.

There ya go - formerly means exactly what I said it did. You owe me an apology now.

That doc was dialled back from the "restricted" classification.

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Restricted Data is all data concerning design, manufacture or utilization of atomic weapons; the production of special nuclear material, or the use of special nuclear material in the production of energy.

 

Restricted Data (RD) is one of the most stringently protected categories of classified information. The Atomic Energy Act of 1954 states that RD can be declassified if it can be published without undue risk to the common defense and security. FRD is the next most stringently protected classified information. FRD is not protected as stringently as is RD but is better protected than NSI. FRD can be declassified when it may be published without constituting an unreasonable risk to the common defense and security. Accepting a less-than-unreasonable risk (i.e., accepting a reasonable risk) presumably means accepting more damage than from an undue risk.

https://sgp.fas.org/classdoe.htm

Do you understand that the doc is no longer in the restricted data category? Because it seems like you don't.

Trump is a former president. Trump is no longer president.

That data was formerly restricted. That data is no longer restricted. So showing off the definition of "restricted data" is meaningless. 

FYI I don't need an intimate knowledge of every security classification and all of the nuances of US data protection to interpret the word "formerly" and neither should you. Get your head out of your ass.

1) The doc was not restricted when Trump took it, or it wouldn't say 'formerly' on it

2) It wasn't such a grand secret that Trump never should have had access to it because everyone who matters already knew he had it. He just had it longer than he should have. Big whoop. 

[robosmith]

31 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

1) The doc was not restricted when Trump took it, or it wouldn't say 'formerly' on it

Not true, partial restriction was STILL in place:

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For purposes of foreign dissemination, however, such information is treated in the same manner as Restricted Data.

31 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

2) It wasn't such a grand secret that Trump never should have had access to it because everyone who matters already knew he had it. He just had it longer than he should have. Big whoop. 

No evidence ^here about WHEN they became aware of his possession. And yes, it IS a "big whoop," because it WASN'T HIS and he CLAIMED (LIED) to have returned it (through his lawyer) UNDER OATH.

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Rebound said:

He’s going to look pretty silly addressing the nation in an orange jumpsuit. 

I'm sure he'll be pardoned  

"Trump, you may be president now but your'e still a criminal! What do you have to say for yourself?"

"Well Pardon me for keeping my own documents!" 

Oh - well, i guess you're free to go then.  Rats, really thought we had you there. 

I suspect the next election will be over before this is resolved. These things take time. So he'll be in a position to pardon himself before he goes to prison if he wins

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Rebound said:

Klaus Fuchs sold our nuclear secrets to Russia, who sold them to China, who sold them to Pakistan, who sold them to India. 

Cool story. So - name one person our nuclear secrets have killed.

Quote

Go look at the 50,000 names on the Vietnam Memorial. Would we have needed to fight there if the USA was the only nuclear power? 

Yes. Absolutely and without question. Well - as much as the us "needed" to be there at all.

[Rebound]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Stop saying "declassify", that's a straw man argument. Only you're using that word. 

There ya go - formerly means exactly what I said it did. You owe me an apology now.

That doc was dialled back from the "restricted" classification.

Do you understand that the doc is no longer in the restricted data category? Because it seems like you don't.

Trump is a former president. Trump is no longer president.

That data was formerly restricted. That data is no longer restricted. So showing off the definition of "restricted data" is meaningless. 

FYI I don't need an intimate knowledge of every security classification and all of the nuances of US data protection to interpret the word "formerly" and neither should you. Get your head out of your ass.

1) The doc was not restricted when Trump took it, or it wouldn't say 'formerly' on it

2) It wasn't such a grand secret that Trump never should have had access to it because everyone who matters already knew he had it. He just had it longer than he should have. Big whoop. 

OMG, your skull is so thick…

”Formerly Restricted” has a U.S. Federal Government definition.   It doesn’t mean whatever you make up in your brain. I cited the definition. Its classification was “Secret/Formerly Restricted” which, as I already showed you, is the DoE equivalent of “Top Secret”. Its status was changed from DoE “Restricted” to DoE “Secret.”  It did not change to “Anybody is now allowed to read about our nuclear weapons technology.”

[WestCanMan]

43 minutes ago, Rebound said:

OMG, your skull is so thick…

”Formerly Restricted” has a U.S. Federal Government definition.   It doesn’t mean whatever you make up in your brain. I cited the definition. Its classification was “Secret/Formerly Restricted” which, as I already showed you, is the DoE equivalent of “Top Secret”. Its status was changed from DoE “Restricted” to DoE “Secret.”  It did not change to “Anybody is now allowed to read about our nuclear weapons technology.”

God damn you're stupid.

Quote

Formerly Restricted Data (FRD) is information removed from the Restricted Data category

That means it was "formerly" in the "restricted data" category. Get it?

So the info about the "Restricted Data" classification "formerly" applied to it. "Used to" apply to it. "No longer" applies to it. 

Now it's "secret", and secret is not that big of a deal. 

Like I said, Doc 20 looks much worse for him. It was Top Secret at the time it was printed. Also labelled ORCON and NOFORN. Big deal x3.

Edited June 20, 2023 by WestCanMan

[Deluge]

20 hours ago, Rebound said:

What is a more serious crime than stealing America’s nuclear secrets? 

He kept them because the democrat party is into election rigging and God knows what other crimes. He had no choice but to keep them safe. 

[robosmith]

56 minutes ago, Deluge said:

He kept them because the democrat party is into election rigging and God knows what other crimes. He had no choice but to keep them safe. 

Stop TROLLING.

[Rebound]

4 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

God damn you're stupid.

That means it was "formerly" in the "restricted data" category. Get it?

So the info about the "Restricted Data" classification "formerly" applied to it. "Used to" apply to it. "No longer" applies to it. 

Now it's "secret", and secret is not that big of a deal. 

Like I said, Doc 20 looks much worse for him. It was Top Secret at the time it was printed. Also labelled ORCON and NOFORN. Big deal x3.

True,  now it is Secret, but it is DoE Secret, not DoD Secret.  There is a major difference. 

The biggest difference is that Congress passed laws about how Secret nuclear (DoE) information is maintained, and the law says that Secret nuclear information can only be declassified though a process which involves approval by both the DoE and the DoD. That means Trump’s claim that he could use his authority as President to declassify the documents cannot apply to Document 19.  

4 hours ago, Deluge said:

He kept them because the democrat party is into election rigging and God knows what other crimes. He had no choice but to keep them safe. 

Don’t you need to go outside and fix the flat tire on the trailer you live in? 

[WestCanMan]

14 minutes ago, Rebound said:

True,  now it is Secret,

I can't believe that we're actually making some progress. Most leftists would never admit to that. Kudos.

Quote

but it is DoE Secret, not DoD Secret.  There is a major difference. 

It's "secret", and secret is "no big deal". Handling that information is like riding a bike with training wheels on it, or being in a probationary period when you start a new job. It's enough info to confirm the enemy's suspicions, or what they already knew 5 years ago, you're just not supposed to fill in the blanks for them. TBH it might even just be a trial for noobs to prove that they won't yap to friends, GFs, etc. 

The "secret" information that I was privy to in the navy was nothing to lose sleep over. I'm sure that some Russians knew it long before I was even in the navy. 

Quote

Don’t you need to go outside and fix the flat tire on the trailer you live in? 

Buddy, his post was a reply to your comment that "Trump was stealing nuclear secrets."

Your comment is so far out to lunch that it's actually retarded. 

It's really weird for you to clap back with such a churlish insult under the circumstances...

[reason10]

20 hours ago, robosmith said:

You and your fellow MAGA CULT members do NOT have enough votes to elect Trump. Just like in 2020. LMAO

 The alleged "maga cult' represents the majority of America, the people whose taxes fund your food stamps.

Trump WON in 2020 and the election was stolen. Now he will be running against the WORST PRESIDENT IN HISTORY WITH THE WORST FCKING RECORD OF ALL TIME. Unelected Joe.

But here's a consolation prize for your goose stepping @ss.

 

[reason10]

[Rebound]

12 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I can't believe that we're actually making some progress. Most leftists would never admit to that. Kudos.

It's "secret", and secret is "no big deal". Handling that information is like riding a bike with training wheels on it, or being in a probationary period when you start a new job. It's enough info to confirm the enemy's suspicions, or what they already knew 5 years ago, you're just not supposed to fill in the blanks for them. TBH it might even just be a trial for noobs to prove that they won't yap to friends, GFs, etc. 

The "secret" information that I was privy to in the navy was nothing to lose sleep over. I'm sure that some Russians knew it long before I was even in the navy. 

Buddy, his post was a reply to your comment that "Trump was stealing nuclear secrets."

Your comment is so far out to lunch that it's actually retarded. 

It's really weird for you to clap back with such a churlish insult under the circumstances...

AGAIN, you are failing to understand this, and I think you’re being deliberate. In the US, the Department of Defense does not control nuclear weapons documents. The Department of Energy does. RESTRICTED documents cannot leave DoE even for the President. They have to have their classification changed to DoE SECRET in order to share with the DoD or the President. There is no DoE “Top Secret,” but I’m sure you’ll agree that the nuclear weapons secrets are as secret as it gets.  
 

It is DoE SECRET, non DoD SECRET.  These are different things.  Can you process that?

DoE SECRET is the equivalent to DoD TOP SECRET. Can you process that? 
 

Also, the President cannot declassify DoE Restricted or Secret documents, per Federal Law. Trump’s claim that he declassified the documents cannot possibly apply to Document 19, because it is a DoE classified nuclear weapons document.  

Edited June 21, 2023 by Rebound

[Deluge]

16 hours ago, robosmith said:

Stop TROLLING.

That was only a partial troll, though I wouldn't be surprised if that was a main reason for Trump.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Rebound said:

AGAIN, you are failing to understand this, and I think you’re being deliberate. In the US, the Department of Defense does not control nuclear weapons documents. The Department of Energy does. RESTRICTED documents cannot leave DoE even for the President. They have to have their classification changed to DoE SECRET in order to share with the DoD or the President.

Again, you're pretending that we're talking about something that we're not. Stop weaselling. 

1) that doc was not restricted at the time Trump took it. It was "formerly" restricted. I explained that to you in my very first post in this thread. "Formerly" means that it was restricted at some point in the past. 

2) The Doc was reduced to secret clearance, that's why it says "SECRET" at the top middle of the very first page. 

Quote

There is no DoE “Top Secret,” but I’m sure you’ll agree that the nuclear weapons secrets are as secret as it gets.  

Wiki disagrees:

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Documents with nuclear information covered under the Atomic Energy Act will be marked with a classification level (confidential, secret or top secret) and a restricted data or formerly restricted data marking.

Take it up with them, I don't really give a crap. 

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It is DoE SECRET, non DoD SECRET.  These are different things.  Can you process that?

It is not germane to our discussion.

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DoE SECRET is the equivalent to DoD TOP SECRET. Can you process that? 

1) Stop making shit up. The main difference between DoD and DoE is that DoE data doesn't automatically become declassified after 25 years (DoD data can be re-classified at that point if necessary),only the DoE can change its classification, and it also needs the RD/FRD tag with it.

2) Trump had a high enough clearance to see Top Secret

3) He's not being charged with having material that he was not allowed to access, so your fake distinction between secret and top secret is meaningless.

Quote

Also, the President cannot declassify DoE Restricted or Secret documents, per Federal Law.

Who are you talking to? Are you retarded?

The doc was just at secret at the very moment Trump took it out. Are you accusing him of adding the word secret with his own printer? Did he put whiteout over the word Top to make it say Top Secret?

Your thread is just stupid, but I honestly don't blame you for believing what you see on Rachel Maddow's show. Hundreds of thousands of people watch that crap. It tickles the confirmation bias like no other.