Martin Liberals Call Quebecers Bums

[rbacon]

So Quebecers here is what the Liberals really think of you.--

Globeandmail.com

Quebec Liberal candidate apologizes for remark

By RHÉAL SÉGUIN

Saturday, December 10, 2005 Page A12

METABETCHOUAN, QUE. -- A prominent Liberal candidate in Quebec City apologized yesterday for saying that Quebec was a poor province dependent on Canadian federalism to keep itself afloat.

Hélène Chalifour-Sherrer, Liberal Leader Paul Martin's former principal secretary and now a candidate in the Quebec City riding of Louis Hébert, said yesterday afternoon that, contrary to popular belief, Quebec "was a very poor province."

"People still have the impression that the province of Quebec is the milking cow for all of Canada. That is not the case. The province of Quebec needs equalization payments and money from Alberta, Ontario and British Columbia, otherwise it couldn't make ends meet," Ms. Chalifour-Sherrer said.

The comments provoked an outcry of indignation from the Bloc Québécois, who said they were a sign of Liberal contempt toward Quebec

"I cannot accept that Quebeckers would talk about Quebec in such terms," Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe said while campaigning in the Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean region last night. "I cannot accept that we would be proud of being dependent. That is why we want to become independent, to put an end to dependency

[Leafless]

Liberal candidate Helene Chalifour-Sherrer could very well be correct stating that Quebec was a poor province dependent on equalization payments.

Gilles-Duceppe is not facing reality if in the event of separation Quebec is going to walk away with everthing the federal government put into that province and besides equalization payment the feds heavily subsidize Quebec in many areas.

How Gilles Duceppe can say " This is why we want to become independent, to put an end to dependency" is an impossibility especially conducting the provinces buisness dealings in French.

A single instance describing Quebec's dilema would be, who would subsidize Bombardier for instance especially when the buisness world knows what kind of success Bombardier really is.

[kimmy]

Another incident much like the "beer and popcorn" gaffe.

Fact is, she's right. Duceppe and others are blasting her for saying something that's true.

Exact same thing as Stephen Harper's infamous "culture of defeatism" comments. The message was true, but the phrasing is impolite.

-k

[shoop]

The *fact* that Québec paid more into Confederation than it got out was an article of faith in Québec up until very recently.

The Liberals should just point to very similar remarks André Boisclair made in the just past PQ leadership race.

I don't see anything in Chalifour's remarks about Québec being *proud* of dependency.

See Liberals, it isn't so nice when your words get misinterpreted.

Hélène Chalifour-Sherrer, Liberal Leader Paul Martin's former principal secretary and now a candidate in the Quebec City riding of Louis Hébert, said yesterday afternoon that, contrary to popular belief, Quebec "was a very poor province."

"People still have the impression that the province of Quebec is the milking cow for all of Canada. That is not the case. The province of Quebec needs equalization payments and money from Alberta, Ontario and British Columbia, otherwise it couldn't make ends meet," Ms. Chalifour-Sherrer said.

The comments provoked an outcry of indignation from the Bloc Québécois, who said they were a sign of Liberal contempt toward Quebec

"I cannot accept that Quebeckers would talk about Quebec in such terms," Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe said while campaigning in the Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean region last night. "I cannot accept that we would be proud of being dependent. That is why we want to become independent, to put an end to dependency

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[normanchateau]

" The province of Quebec needs equalization payments and money from Alberta, Ontario and British Columbia, otherwise it couldn't make ends meet," Ms. Chalifour-Sherrer said.

This comment probably especially enraged Duceppe. Separatists like to foster the delusion that Quebec is not a have-not province.

[Shakeyhands]

Imagine how pissed their going to be if the CPC somehow forms a government and they are told to put up or shut up! This will seem minor!

[Bakunin]

I think ppl must be carefull when they say such things. Quebeckers get more ($43.1 billions) money than they give ($39.8 billions) this is a fact. Quebeckers are poorer than albertan and ontario citizens, this is true but we are talking about 3,3 billions, not 10-20billions.

Contrary to what ppl may think, quebeckers (23% of the population of canada) gets: 17,8 % of the federal government public function jobs. 19,6 % of Research and development, 18,5 % of the federal subsidies to business.

I agree that quebec is one of the 8 poor provinces but i think we have to be fair, there is a step between poor and very poor... 3,3 billions is a substancial amount of money but it doesnt make quebec a member of the third world...

Ps: those numbers are from an article of the economist and the newspapers.

[August1991]

Bakunin, I cannot disagree with your statistics (I think they are accurate) but I disagree strongly with your implication.

For too long, people in Quebec have felt like small people, incapable to manage alone. Yet, a people capable to survive on such a continent in such circumstances is anything but small. The secret to existence is adaptability.

In practical terms, if Quebecers could manage their own affairs their own way, they would have no need for the supposed gifts the federal Liberals offer. Think for a moment about Mirabel, Gentilly.

----

If I take an English-Canada view of this, the federal Liberals (like a young Macdonald) were once a pragmatic party joining the various parts of Canada by compromise. That was true under King, Laurier, Pearson. Mulroney was a modern equivalent. Trudeau took an ideological view of Canada - provoking a confrontation.

If I take a French-Canada view of this, Rene Levesque, the RIN and the PQ, in line with Papineau, Mercier and Henri Bourassa, have lead to the inevitable. Now, we must negotiate a better arrangement, another step in the history of Quebec.

----

In simple terms, Quebec can manage best on its own. It can stay in Canada not for welfare but because Quebec is also part of the northern part of a continent.

[Riverwind]

Contrary to what ppl may think, quebeckers (23% of the population of canada) gets: 17,8 % of the federal government public function jobs. 19,6 % of Research and development, 18,5 % of the federal subsidies to business.

Your statistics might true but your list is not complete. For example, Quebec receives more than its per capita share of EI and immigration funding. It is not fair to list only the areas where Quebec appears to be getting less than its share. I would also like to point out that it it simply impossible to ensure that every province gets exactly their per capita share so the fact that Quebec receives less than its share in some areas is not proof anything.

I also feel that most of lethargy that afflicts the Quebec economy is directly a result of the seperation debate - it drains the resources of Quebec that would be better used elsewhere. Futhermore, any attempt at seperation would have such severe economic consequences that it would simply extend the time it will take for Quebec to catch up to the rest of country.

In simple terms, Quebec can manage best on its own. It can stay in Canada not for welfare but because Quebec is also part of the northern part of a continent.

I see seperation like a 30% front end load mutual fund - there is a chance that a seperate Quebec could do slightly better than it would as part of Canada but the costs of getting to that point far exceed any marginal gains.

[Bakunin]

Bakunin, I cannot disagree with your statistics (I think they are accurate) but I disagree strongly with your implication.

For too long, people in Quebec have felt like small people, incapable to manage alone. Yet, a people capable to survive on such a continent in such circumstances is anything but small.  The secret to existence is adaptability.

In practical terms, if Quebecers could manage their own affairs their own way, they would have no need for the supposed gifts the federal Liberals offer.  Think for a moment about Mirabel, Gentilly.

----

If I take an English-Canada view of this, the federal Liberals (like a young Macdonald) were once a pragmatic party joining the various parts of Canada by compromise.  That was true under King, Laurier, Pearson.  Mulroney was a modern equivalent.  Trudeau took an ideological view of Canada - provoking a confrontation.

If I take a French-Canada view of this, Rene Levesque, the RIN and the PQ, in line with Papineau, Mercier and Henri Bourassa, have lead to the inevitable.  Now, we must negotiate a better arrangement, another step in the history of Quebec.

----

In simple terms, Quebec can manage best on its own.  It can stay in Canada not for welfare but because Quebec is also part of the northern part of a continent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well of course quebec can manage best on its own, quebec fat political structure is built to be autonomous.

[kimmy]

Imagine how pissed their going to be if the CPC somehow forms a government and they are told to put up or shut up!  This will seem minor!

Do you really think Harper would tell Quebec to put up or shut up?

I wish. I really do. I think that if many Canadians thought Stephen Harper would do that, he'd win in a landslide. Wouldn't that be what a *real* "Loves Canada!" Prime Minister would do?

I don't, though. I don't think Harper actually has the brass monkeys to do that. I doubt the CPC are willing to try a tougher approach with Quebec. But, maybe at some point, he will be able to try a different strategy.

I think the idea that the Liberals can use National Unity as campaign ammunition is has pretty much evaporated. I do think that most Canadians now recognize that the Liberals' claim to represent both English and French Canada has become hot air. And I think Canadians feel that French-English relations in Canada have steadily worsened during the Liberals' tenure. I mean, these guys have been in charge for 12 years... if they had any answers on national unity, don't you think they'd have tried them by now?

-k

[normanchateau]

Imagine how pissed their going to be if the CPC somehow forms a government and they are told to put up or shut up!  This will seem minor!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah, but the probability that CPC will form a government without a single seat in Quebec is extremely low. When the Progressive Conservatives were in power, e.g., Diefenbaker, Mulroney, Clark, they always had seats in Quebec, in some cases more than 50 seats. CPC supporters are going through the motions and trying to maintain their morale but they know that they'll never win a majority without Quebec seats. And while they can theoretically win a slim minority without Quebec, they'll then be governing at the whim of three parties to their left, i.e., the BQ, NDP and Liberals. Either way, they're doomed without Quebec seats.

[Leafless]

Bakunin

I will have to challenge you concerning your numbers which appear astoundingly low.

The numbers you quoted and where you obtained them from is unaceptable to make such a blanket statement as fact and only those from the federal government themselves could be considered a probable reliable source.

"Please note" is unacceptable as you are implying factual information that could very well be false.

[fellowtraveller]

Now, we must negotiate a better arrangement, another step in the history of Quebec.

Agreed. And also agreed is that Quebec needs the autonomy to do that from outside Canada, as an independent nation. But you need to be aware that the ROC will not be benevolent in those negotiations. They will also be seeking advanatage, the sentimentality and nostalgia that has benefited Quebec for generations will be completely and utterly gone. Expect hardball, and budget for it.

Ah, but the probability that CPC will form a government without a single seat in Quebec is extremely low.

Perhaps this election is setting the stage for constitutional discussions between the ROC after Quebec departs. Won't it be novel to have two parties represented fairly equally across the new Dominion, minus Quebec? Tough way to regenerate and renew, but hey we have to start somewhere. What we're doing now just does not work anymore.

[Guest eureka]

I more or less agree with you, Kimmy, except that I think relations between English and French Canada have actually improved over the Liberals term in office.

Unfortunately, that improvement has come from the soft approach to the problem. The Quebec part of French Canada has grown more confident that it can get whatever it wants from Canada without serious consequences. It has been allowed to build on the myths of nationhood and to engage in unlimited propaganda without contradiction.

The tough approach is always what has been needed. It may now be too late.